It Was 400 Years Ago, They Said

Going off both of your responses... How do both of you feel about Garveyism? Garvey’s movement was the first black attempt to join modern urban goals and mass organization. Subsequent leaders didn't try to create black economic institutions as he had although Garvey had demonstrated to them that the urban masses were a potentially powerful force in the struggle for black freedom. If you don't believe that collaboration with other races is viable, what about collaborating with other Africans outside of the US? I really think Marcus Garvey was onto something with his movement but for some of the reasons I've already posted about it's just not feasible long term. Maybe he is a good example to learn from, both the good and the bad.

I always hear about these "white oppressors" but no one can pin point what individuals are to blame. It's why I say to meet individuals before you pass judgement. I don't deny the systematic racism and white privilege that's in place. However, the dwindling group of racist/ignorant individuals that are left in society are too dumb and don't have the resources to actually oppress anyone (see ninjahood as an example). The only power they have, is derived from poking at black people and getting that reaction out of them. They live for that reaction because they are losers who have to prop themselves up on something, or against someone to feel good about their own inadequacies (again see ninjahood). They're just enjoying their ride on the sinking ship of racism while new generations are purging the hate. The more you clamor about "the same ones" and "fool me once" the more you are proving your own prejudice and predisposition (which I'm not denying you; it's justifiable). We can work together as individuals if we set our prejudices aside. But I realize this is difficult to do for both white and black people.

Also, I'm not saying oppressive white people are extinct. However, those who possess the real power to be oppressive where it really hurts (on a large scale economically) are fading. Although this current administration does not help to support this claim :lol:, I believe it to be true from what I observe in my real life every day interactions.

So maybe you're right. Maybe the economic boost should stem more from Garveyism, working within your own culture, and embracing the Pan-African movement more. You COULD do it all on your own, BUT, that doesn't mean you HAVE to pit yourselves against all other races in the process, and just know there are good people willing to help. You shouldn't have to implore them either. They are out there ready to assist. Even the federal government has programs that benefit small black owned businesses and can give them a slight edge in winning contract awards.

I just believe this reparation stuff should start with starting new businesses. Clearly the existing infrastructure is broken. It's broken for me even as a white person and I refuse to continue to play into it. Which is why I started a business of my own. So I could begin to set my own terms on my time, money and life.A separatist business, a collaborative business, whatever. It's about creating new revenue streams than what already exists.

I don't understand everything surrounding this issue because yes, I am white. People like hand2handking hand2handking who want to place blame, seek revenge and further the divide between blacks and other races don't seem truly genuine when they speak about progress. I see him pit the divide more and make excuses rather than focus his energy on embracing ideas that could lead to economic empowerment.
:rofl:
 
What was so funny about my post? Anyone can post a laughing emoji. Cool. You don't want to engage in a thoughtful, mature discussion then keep it moving.
 
I'm not engaging a white person on this topic some of the things in that quote are flat out ridiculous "the new generation is purging the hate " what ??? Like what are you basing that on ?
 
his daily interactions 
laugh.gif


or his feelings

or simply cuz he thinks he knows better
 
I'm not engaging a white person on this topic some of the things in that quote are flat out ridiculous "the new generation is purging the hate " what ??? Like what are you basing that on ?

Engage more white people and find out yourself if the hate's being purged. Maybe I'm completely off base. I don't associate with racists, personally, and I have plenty of white friends.

I said I'm basing it off of my every day real life experiences. Have you interacted with any white people outside of in passing lately?

I don't believe I'm being ignorant nor offensive to anyone here. If I am, then point it out instead of post a laughing face as your exclamation. I already acknowledged I don't understand the culture at the depth you guys do, and I realize there's a very strong possibly that one day my own offspring will look me in the face and say, "dad, you just don't get it because you're white." I don't have the answers to these questions but neither does anyone else. It's important for me to gain an understanding of these issues. Maybe not as important as other black people. But as it stands right now because my wife and children will be black. If you want to dismiss my ideas. Fine. But at least offer up something as a retort other than a laughing face with no explanation. I'm trying to have a real thoughtful discourse, I know my history and have referenced ACTUAL past movements while others in here are throwing out WILD hypotheticals like an eye for an eye that will never happen.

You don't even have to acknowledge me if you don't want. I'll opt out of the convo. But I won't ignore you and I will listen if you have SOMETHING to say... So let's hear it...
 
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his daily interactions :lol:

or his feelings

or simply cuz he thinks he knows better

Another well thought out response. Bravo. Have you ever typed a full paragraph on this site? Or are you only good for quoting? THINK FOR YOURSELF!
 
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I'll just leave this thread alone. Go help yourselves I'll continue to embrace equality in real life with actual people of substance, not online trolls. Clearly y'all don't wanna hear any ideas unless they are your own or stem from a black person. I can't even reference a black thought leader, it's just ignored because y'all love putting that divide up. Well here you have it. I'm out. Peace.
 
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Your daily interactions as a WHITE MAN has led to you believe racism is dying :rofl: :rofl: fam do you hear yourself ? I'm done
 
I'll just leave this thread alone. Go help yourselves I'll continue to embrace equality in real life with actual people of substance, not online trolls. Clearly y'all don't wanna hear any ideas unless they are your own or stem from a black person. I can't even reference a black thought leader, it's just ignored because y'all love putting that divide up. Well here you have it. I'm out. Peace.


No offense but you sound like a lil ***** right now. Dudes putting a wall up cuz a condescending white liberal is talking down to them about their issues and how he knows better. And then your tone in this post reads like some white savior complex type ****.
 
I'll just leave this thread alone. Go help yourselves I'll continue to embrace equality in real life with actual people of substance, not online trolls. Clearly y'all don't wanna hear any ideas unless they are your own or stem from a black person. I can't even reference a black thought leader, it's just ignored because y'all love putting that divide up. Well here you have it. I'm out. Peace.


No offense but you sound like a lil ***** right now. Dudes putting a wall up cuz a condescending white liberal is talking down to them about their issues and how he knows better. And then your tone in this post reads like some white savior complex type ****.

This.

I know dude thinks he means well, but he doesn't realize how condescending he is being.
 
I know where I stand and it's not in a position of looking down on anyone (except ninjahood). I apologize if I've offended anyone but I have stated multiple times in this thread I'm not an expert, I don't have the answers, and I was just joining the conversation. So if you'd like to ignore everything I'm saying, that's on you. I'm the one who brought up Garveyism and the convo died right there. It was your choice to mock me in return, when clearly I'm here to gain more understanding and clarity on these complex issues that don't DIRECTLY affect me but I do still CARE about the issues.

Hey I forgot who started the thread and that I'm on NT. I have better things to do than speak on deaf ears. I'm well intentioned, but you'd never know that by reading my text online. So I'm opting out of this convo before I offend more people (which I never meant).

Hope you guys can accept that and have a great Friday and holiday weekend :pimp:
 
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No offense but you sound like a lil ***** right now. Dudes putting a wall up cuz a condescending white liberal is talking down to them about their issues and how he knows better. And then your tone in this post reads like some white savior complex type ****.

[emoji]128175[/emoji].

Henny is cool and well meaning. But boy, he's completely coming off all wrong.
 
dont need people who jus wanna feel good about themselves 

i had a topic called white fragility that dealt with this
 
Pretty much. Asians will sell us hair care products all day but won't do business w/ us to set up shop, even if we're not anywhere near their store. One option would be seeking partnerships abroad in other countries that would want to do business w/ us, but as far as the U.S. it's coo to hate black people, laugh at them, and take their money, bet never empower them by doing business w/ them.

that market was ours and we GAVE it away.

we need an understanding in economics before anything.

Oh, most definitely. One of the reasons I'm learning about all of it now so I can be a steward to my folks and teach them what I've learned so we can grow. Our self-inflicted injuries come from ignorance in every realm and industry and we have to change that in order to build a solid foundation. I don't expect to see it but I'm hoping that what I do now will benefit my children, nieces, nephews, etc. so they can continue the push.


I'll just leave this thread alone. Go help yourselves I'll continue to embrace equality in real life with actual people of substance, not online trolls. Clearly y'all don't wanna hear any ideas unless they are your own or stem from a black person. I can't even reference a black thought leader, it's just ignored because y'all love putting that divide up. Well here you have it. I'm out. Peace.

I get where you're coming from and you may have well intentions, but this battle is something that you cannot truly understand because you're not the one fighting it. Being white, you can work hard, become successful and at sight people won't know your struggle. However, being black is something you can work hard to overcome. There is a system of racism that is embedded in this society and has been spread throughout most of this world that will take centuries to change that narrative. Fighting this system is no easy task because you have racist people who don't want us to prosper and "progressive" people who don't believe their actions are contributing to the continuation of this system that undermines us. Deep ingrained stereotypes and stigmas are still prevalent and we constantly have to fight them, work harder, and hope that people can look past the color of our skin. It's so bad that even black people buy into the nonsense that society pushes about us.

I think that it's best that you listen to understand and not listen to respond bro.
 
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dathbgboy dathbgboy I agree with what you just said. I know I said I'd stop posting but you've been respectful and actually posting content throughout the thread.I can't prove it, nor do I care to, but I'm well intentioned and I know there are others like me. But do you see the clash that is happening JUST in this thread since me, a white person, tried to get involved in the conversation? I wouldn't want another culture that doesn't understand my own offering up solutions to my problems either. I get that. I can be well intentioned, and try to help, there is still a deep misunderstanding between the two cultures. Can this ever be reconciled? As careful, and as respectful as I've tried to be, I'm still stepping on toes in here :lol: I'm not coming in here saying, "nah nah nah this is the only way to do it and all you are wrong." I'm saying, "hey guys, I don't know as much about your culture but how about this?"

That's why I brought up Garveyism. You get YOUR people from YOUR culture backing you and you KNOW 100% their intentions are pure. It's unfortunate that this would have to be outsourced from Africa or somewhere else. Because the idea behind that like half and half what you guys are saying about separatism, vs, what I'm saying about letting other groups help. And Garveyism is connecting black people/culture INTERNATIONALLY to develop wealth. I believe that's a better idea than a separatist movement DOMESTICALLY where blacks only buy/sell from eachother. I believe in pooling resources to get the best results. Since there is still a lot of distrust between blacks and whites, perhaps the ideas behind Garveyism are more suited to take advantage of reparations (if they were to be handed out).

Today wasn't the first time I've regretably said something ignorant to offend someone, nor will it be the last :lol: I can admit my mistakes and learn from them though. I shouldn't have dropped that "go help yourselves" line earlier but I only said it because the more intellectual parts of my post rooted in history and fact went ignored, and that was frustrating. I apologize. hand2handking hand2handking you're right my white fragility may have gotten the best of me today :smh: :lol: But I always feel good about myself 24/7, that's how everyone should feel :pimp:
 
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Oh, most definitely. One of the reasons I'm learning about all of it now so I can be a steward to my folks and teach them what I've learned so we can grow. Our self-inflicted injuries come from ignorance in every realm and industry and we have to change that in order to build a solid foundation. I don't expect to see it but I'm hoping that what I do now will benefit my children, nieces, nephews, etc. so they can continue the push.

my man. *daps*

this right here is the game changer

you're on it 100%


especially this part right here:

Our self-inflicted injuries come from ignorance in every realm and industry

after emancipation we used to teach each other. make sure we understood the languages and disciplines to be successful.

somewhere along the way we stopped teaching.
 
I'll just leave this thread alone. Go help yourselves I'll continue to embrace equality in real life with actual people of substance, not online trolls. Clearly y'all don't wanna hear any ideas unless they are your own or stem from a black person. I can't even reference a black thought leader, it's just ignored because y'all love putting that divide up. Well here you have it. I'm out. Peace.
Naw you dont gotta do all that Henny, you a cool dude and i Know u dont got hate in your heart...its just that you coming off as niave and basing YOUR positive experiences to speak for your ppl as a whole...not every white person is bad but best believe its still real out here and aint **** change as far as trying to hold us down...this country was built on whites being in power and keeping everybody else below them, its always ppl and structures in place to ensure nothing changes....ONE black president and its "make america great again", i know you see whats happening right now :lol: ....dont mistake ppl getting old for their tactics fading, they got fresh recruits ready to go keep the oppression going as soon as the elderly die off

Always remember just because you might be cool with somebody or have positive interaction wit em doesnt mean you really KNOW them...
 
Oh, most definitely. One of the reasons I'm learning about all of it now so I can be a steward to my folks and teach them what I've learned so we can grow. Our self-inflicted injuries come from ignorance in every realm and industry and we have to change that in order to build a solid foundation. I don't expect to see it but I'm hoping that what I do now will benefit my children, nieces, nephews, etc. so they can continue the push.

my man. *daps*

this right here is the game changer

you're on it 100%


especially this part right here:

Our self-inflicted injuries come from ignorance in every realm and industry

after emancipation we used to teach each other. make sure we understood the languages and disciplines to be successful.

somewhere along the way we stopped teaching.
As time went on we tried to assimilate into what we thought was American (White) culture...probly due to some false hope of actually being seen as a part of this country but all that did is push us deeper under their control and they still dont mess with us
 
dathbgboy dathbgboy I agree with what you just said. I know I said I'd stop posting but you've been respectful and actually posting content throughout the thread.I can't prove it, nor do I care to, but I'm well intentioned and I know there are others like me. But do you see the clash that is happening JUST in this thread since me, a white person, tried to get involved in the conversation? I wouldn't want another culture that doesn't understand my own offering up solutions to my problems either. I get that. I can be well intentioned, and try to help, there is still a deep misunderstanding between the two cultures. Can this ever be reconciled? As careful, and as respectful as I've tried to be, I'm still stepping on toes in here :lol: I'm not coming in here saying, "nah nah nah this is the only way to do it and all you are wrong." I'm saying, "hey guys, I don't know as much about your culture but how about this?"

That's why I brought up Garveyism. You get YOUR people from YOUR culture backing you and you KNOW 100% their intentions are pure. It's unfortunate that this would have to be outsourced from Africa or somewhere else. Because the idea behind that like half and half what you guys are saying about separatism, vs, what I'm saying about letting other groups help. And Garveyism is connecting black people/culture INTERNATIONALLY to develop wealth. I believe that's a better idea than a separatist movement DOMESTICALLY where blacks only buy/sell from eachother. I believe in pooling resources to get the best results. Since there is still a lot of distrust between blacks and whites, perhaps the ideas behind Garveyism are more suited to take advantage of reparations (if they were to be handed out).

Today wasn't the first time I've regretably said something ignorant to offend someone, nor will it be the last :lol: I can admit my mistakes and learn from them though. I shouldn't have dropped that "go help yourselves" line earlier but I only said it because the more intellectual parts of my post rooted in history and fact went ignored, and that was frustrating. I apologize. hand2handking hand2handking you're right my white fragility may have gotten the best of me today :smh: :lol: But I always feel good about myself 24/7, that's how everyone should feel :pimp:

While working with others is the best situation, right now we have to focus on us. Other races, cultures, etc focus on themselves and rarely lend their support to our cause but we're told that we all need to work together and thus lend our support though it's rarely reciprocated. We have to build our foundations first, that in turn will give us more bargaining power and self-sufficiency. It's like being in a relationship when you have things to work out w/ yourself but you have to devote time to someone else, doesn't really work.

Oh, most definitely. One of the reasons I'm learning about all of it now so I can be a steward to my folks and teach them what I've learned so we can grow. Our self-inflicted injuries come from ignorance in every realm and industry and we have to change that in order to build a solid foundation. I don't expect to see it but I'm hoping that what I do now will benefit my children, nieces, nephews, etc. so they can continue the push.

my man. *daps*

this right here is the game changer

you're on it 100%


especially this part right here:

Our self-inflicted injuries come from ignorance in every realm and industry

after emancipation we used to teach each other. make sure we understood the languages and disciplines to be successful.

somewhere along the way we stopped teaching.

We lost that once integration happened. We were self-sufficient because we had to be, but once we were able to freely spend our money elsewhere in abundance, we lost that, and we have to get it back. We gotta work twice as hard to maintain our foundation of culture, economics, etc.
 
Black capitalism and buying black isn't the answer I don't believe. Unless the Black businesses that Black folk buy from are reinvesting the money they make into the Black community it isn't an effective tool for progress. Most people start businesses to make money not to improve their communities. Black capitalism isn't better than White capitalism. We will still have the haves and have nots in Black society. Instead of giving our money to a rich white dude were just giving it to a rich Black dude, who often doesn't care about Black empowerment . Case in point Michael Jordan, even though he doesn't own Nike.
 
^ But it can still set an example within a community of how ownership can be created. Also that rich man could spread that wealth with his family which could spur on the growth of even more businesses and so on.

It's not the only angle and it should be coupled with education. It's a start though. I would say people would be more inclined to educate themselves if they were involved in businesses relevant to said education.
 
Henny may lack full perspective on the topic, but y'all could have guided him a bit more gently. that's the kind of **** that got 45 elected, honestly.

yeah tho, I'm definitely interested that Garvey was brought up in here, I think he definitely had something. 

to clarify for myself, "taking our business elsewhere" meant funneling as many of our dollars to favorable parties as possible to increase our economic leverage, whether that be by exclusively doing business within our community and those who openly stand with us or initiating some kind of independent trade agreement with African countries (not limited to them obviously, it just has a high concentration of black-friendly countries for obvious reasons) and/or other displaced communities around the world with African origins.

my personal vote goes to starting a mass movement to permanently improve the fortunes of a developing country by infusing it with large scale improvement that is accessible and profitable to us. (which is why I threw out a few brand-name black people.)

watch how fast green lives matter...the minute the money flowing out of federal coffers starts to get firmly into the "B's," just like magic all these friendly and attractive programs/legal reforms will arise in an attempt to make living in the United States as a black person a better deal. 

has it ever occurred to anyone that calling our entire American presence a refugee community ain't all that much of a stretch?

it's sad that it's come to regressive thought processes like this when we should be focusing on building a strong global community of humans, but we've been trying to move into a burning house for too long, IMO.

stop fueling the fire, knock the whole rotting structure down, clear off the rubble, build a better ******* house.

at least, that's my theory.
 
^ But it can still set an example within a community of how ownership can be created. Also that rich man could spread that wealth with his family which could spur on the growth of even more businesses and so on.

It's not the only angle and it should be coupled with education. It's a start though. I would say people would be more inclined to educate themselves if they were involved in businesses relevant to said education.
But the purpose of most successful businesses is to turn a profit. The people who benefit the most from a successful business are those related to the business owner. Spreading the wealth in family won't benefit the Black community as a whole. In my opinion, capitalism has been an enemy of Black folk. What makes you think Black capitalism will improve the plight of Blacks in America? Most Black capitalists get their $$ and become Republicans. I have Uncles who were very Pro-Black, once they got a couple of dollars they got White wives, moved to the burbs, and became Republicans. Black flight is an issue just like White flight. Blacks with means often move to the burbs away from other Blacks. They take their social capital to the burbs and forget about poor Blacks who can benefit from their networks.
 
Look at Tariq Nasheed son says he's for Black empowerment but he's a capitalist and an opportunist. Gets folk to fund his movies while he makes money from the movies that his followers have funded. Not much of this money goes back to the Black community.
 
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