It Was 400 Years Ago, They Said

My solution would be eye for an eye

If you're a black man in America, u have to work 3x harder and if you're a black woman, 5x harder.

Reparations are long overdue to the only group that never willfully immigrated over here.

Japanese got em, Irish got em, cities we've destroyed in war abroad got em.

Brolic Scholar said:

If any of you could wave a magic wand and fix this problem tomorrow, how would you address this in steps? Reparations are definitely needed/warranted, but then what? Just dump it right back into this economy that continues to only see us as consumers?

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Like I said before, we need a social democrat backbone in America too.

If that is in place, simple answer, invest is capital assets. Buy land, rental properties, farms, and open businesses (and use these businesses as a firewall against the remaining institutionalized racism in the system). While I know some of my brahs disagree with me on the topic of integration, and my ideas of what should be socialized public good, I do believe that if black people got serious reparations that they need to create a feedback loop where black consumer can spend money in black business as easy as possible. That any black person, with little to no effort, will be spending their money in black owned supermarkets, restaurants, dry cleaners, banks, etc.

Regarding bigger businesses, where it is probably impractical to overthrow or replace them (I don't think we necessary need a black owned airline, or a national mobile provider), we can buy shares in a few select ones.

Put more simply, black people would need to become more pro labor, more pro small business, and pro gaining economics resources. Use the reparations to gain other identities in economy besides consumer.

That way you can pass down the wealth from generation to generation.

Trying to build another marcoeconomy above the existing one is a fool's errand.

Hand2HandKing said:

My solution would be eye for an eye

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Sorry, but nah. That will just make black people as morally bankrupt as the white supremacist that oppress us now.

I'm interest in justice and equality, not revenge.

Rusty is right.

Instagram- @projectspringboard

Project-springboard.com is honestly what EVERY nlack person in America should be on. Group economics and wealth creation through ownership and entrepreneurship is the only way. Peace

who gets the money?

Brolic Scholar said:

If any of you could wave a magic wand and fix this problem tomorrow, how would you address this in steps? Reparations are definitely needed/warranted, but then what? Just dump it right back into this economy that continues to only see us as consumers?

Click to expand...

At the end of the day, it'd be up to whether or not you did a good job in raising and rearing your family. Just like when fathers hand down business, will their sons or kids know how to run it. Make sure the heirs or heiresses have smarts and common sense.

When we get reparations, there will be no more excuses. Either you fumble the inheritance, or use it for generation after generation. That's how I see it.

Brolic Scholar said:

If any of you could wave a magic wand and fix this problem tomorrow, how would you address this in steps? Reparations are definitely needed/warranted, but then what? Just dump it right back into this economy that continues to only see us as consumers?

Click to expand...

Well for a start Black ppl and Native Americas shoulda BEEN had free healthcare and higher education from the jump, thats the least they coulda done

numbah1grimey said:

Brolic Scholar said:

If any of you could wave a magic wand and fix this problem tomorrow, how would you address this in steps? Reparations are definitely needed/warranted, but then what? Just dump it right back into this economy that continues to only see us as consumers?

Click to expand...

At the end of the day, it'd be up to whether or not you did a good job in raising and rearing your family. Just like when fathers hand down business, will their sons or kids know how to run it. Make sure the heirs or heiresses have smarts and common sense.

When we get reparations, there will be no more excuses. Either you fumble the inheritance, or use it for generation after generation. That's how I see it.

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This is the way I see it. You either flourish or you flounder. To many of us, that would be just what we needed in order to get the leg up to get things rolling.

RustyShackleford said:

Like I said before, we need a social democrat backbone in America too.

If that is in place, simple answer, invest is capital assets. Buy land, rental properties, farms, and open businesses (and use these businesses as a firewall against the remaining institutionalized racism in the system). While I know some of my brahs disagree with me on the topic of integration, and my ideas of what should be socialized public good, I do believe that if black people got serious reparations that they need to create a feedback loop where black consumer can spend money in black business as easy as possible. That any black person, with little to no effort, will be spending their money in black owned supermarkets, restaurants, dry cleaners, banks, etc.

Regarding bigger businesses, where it is probably impractical to overthrow or replace them (I don't think we necessary need a black owned airline, or a national mobile provider), we can buy shares in a few select ones.

Put more simply, black people would need to become more pro labor, more pro small business, and pro gaining economics resources. Use the reparations to gain other identities in economy besides consumer.

That way you can pass down the wealth from generation to generation.

Trying to build another marcoeconomy above the existing one is a fool's errand.

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This makes sense but it would be a long and painful process. Barriers to entry would be off the charts. Switching the mindset from consumer to owner/investor might be even tougher.

DCAllAmerican said:

Meth has had to check him numerous times for his, "It was so long ago, if immigrants can make it, so should you" talk.

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:x

Immigrants: culture in tact, left on their own with a purpose, could build a community based on culture, language and a shared purpose.

Slaves: none of the above.

RustyShackleford said:

Brolic Scholar said:

If any of you could wave a magic wand and fix this problem tomorrow, how would you address this in steps? Reparations are definitely needed/warranted, but then what? Just dump it right back into this economy that continues to only see us as consumers?

Click to expand...

Like I said before, we need a social democrat backbone in America too.

If that is in place, simple answer, invest is capital assets. Buy land, rental properties, farms, and open businesses (and use these businesses as a firewall against the remaining institutionalized racism in the system). While I know some of my brahs disagree with me on the topic of integration, and my ideas of what should be socialized public good, I do believe that if black people got serious reparations that they need to create a feedback loop where black consumer can spend money in black business as easy as possible. That any black person, with little to no effort, will be spending their money in black owned supermarkets, restaurants, dry cleaners, banks, etc.

Regarding bigger businesses, where it is probably impractical to overthrow or replace them (I don't think we necessary need a black owned airline, or a national mobile provider), we can buy shares in a few select ones.

Put more simply, black people would need to become more pro labor, more pro small business, and pro gaining economics resources. Use the reparations to gain other identities in economy besides consumer.

That way you can pass down the wealth from generation to generation.

Trying to build another marcoeconomy above the existing one is a fool's errand.

Hand2HandKing said:

My solution would be eye for an eye

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Sorry, but nah. That will just make black people as morally bankrupt as the white supremacist that oppress us now.

I'm interest in justice and equality, not revenge.

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I don't believe that black separatism in regards to institutions is feasible (nor do I think it's a smart idea) on a national level. There are so many reasons that I don't see it ever happening.

I like your idea of starting on a smaller, community level. That's where change can actually happen and a movement can be spread.

The simple answer to invest in capital assets sounds nice but there is nothing simple about that. You need the capital first before you can start buying land, renting properties, and ESPECIALLY before starting small businesses. You also need to have the proper knowledge and skill set to be successful in any of the aforementioned. There are very very few people who have the jack-of-all-trade knowledge needed to plan, start, and successfully operate a small business. The amount of filings and paperwork alone is overwhelming to the average person. You have to build a team and outsource what you aren't capable of doing yourself. That takes time and resources that many people aren't afforded. I've seen so many ideas that end up being just that, an idea, because the proper resources aren't in place to lead to it's fruition.

IMO it all starts (and ends) with education. Learning EARLY is the key because the economic system in the US, while harder to navigate for blacks, is working against everyone EXCEPT those with generational wealth. The system is designed to keep the uneducated and poor in debt. We need to teach the kids how to navigate the system early in life before they find out the way money really flows and it's too late for them. My girlfriend works in this arena right now. She's a project manager for an entrepreneurship center and sees people (even kids) with great business ideas every day but no clue how to begin to implement them. The ideas are out there, the resources, unfortunately, aren't.

Sorry to say but the system in place isn't going change and reparations aren't going to be handed out. If the black community is to invest in capital assets the money has to come from somewhere. Without reparations or generational wealth, the only way to accumulate capital is with smart financial management. You have to teach this early and then stress the importance of financial management not only when saving but also once you've accumulated some capital. The average American doesn't get to the point where they have to consider any capital wealth management. They have to worry about making ends meet and paying debts first. A cycle that few can escape.


hand2handking is a clown who no one should take seriously. An eye for an eye is not the answer. His racial separatist rhetoric does no good for anyone. I'm not a bootstrap thinker but there's only so much you can blame others for before you accept harsh realities and begin to take accountability for yourself. Every post he makes highlights the plight of blacks with a divisive narrative. That's not the answer and although I know a lot of black people want nothing to do with anyone but their own people, we all need to coexist with each other.

I say that it's more important to become educated, and learn to navigate the system in place rather than subscribe to these racial separatist notions. It's cool to imagine a world where things are different but they are the way they are. Say blacks were to successfully separate economically from the rest of the nation (which will never happen)... Then what? You only serve people that look like you in your local community? Nope. That's a recipe for business failure and will NEVER allow for any growth. Educate and GROW businesses locally. Then connect with like-minded, successful individuals to create a network and offer access to the young in the community you came from. Any smart business man knows serving one demographic is stupid.


By the way, I hope ALL you are practicing what you preach. RustyShackleford you especially. You are correct in saying some of the smaller things can be done with little to no effort. With everything you just said, I really hope you are using a black-owned bank at least. I bank with Industrial Bank which is the oldest and largest African American owned commercial bank in the metropolitan Washington, D.C. region. I'm white and they had no problems taking my money. I bank with them because they offer me the best service. Which is how it should be. Black businesses should be able to grow to the point where they can offer the same level or even better service than white-owned institutions; take EVERYONE's business regardless of race, ethnicity, and color so that they do not limit their potential; and continue to grow successfully.

hennessy easy to say "an eye for an eye is not the answer" or we all gotta co exist when you are white...certain feelings and things you wont ever know or understand no matter what

For black ppl its always about not retaliating and trying to work with or get along with the same ppl n structures that held you down and put you in a bad position...that line of thinking is always used to pacify and has been going on for too long imo

frshstunna said:

hennessy easy to say "an eye for an eye is not the answer" or we all gotta co exist when you are white...certain feelings and things you wont ever know or understand no matter what

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You're right there are certain feelings and things I won't ever know or understand no matter what. What's your point? That's not the first or last time I've heard that.

I understand the economic system. It's working against everyone who doesn't have generational wealth. Doesn't matter what color you are (although as I mentioned above it is harder to navigate as a minority). I'm offering my ideas on a solution. If you'd like to ignore my ideas just because I'm white then go chill with hand2handking and you can both be lonely and broke in the black separatist economy. It takes the resources of many to make one successful individual. When you limit your dealings to black-owned businesses, you limit your potential. So yes, we all have to coexist. And like I said, I use a black-owned bank because they offer me the best service. Isn't that what we should all be striving towards? Being the best? Or I guess some of you are ok with just being the best amongst other black people. I'm sure John Taylor did not share this mindset when he was the first African-American to compete and win gold in the Olympics. Historically in this country, blacks have fought for the same rights everyone else has. Why separate institutionally and forfeit those rights again? Plenty of black owned businesses out there competing and even dominating the market.

But yeah... I know I'm white already and will never truly understand. It doesn't mean I don't understand the dangers of separatism. It seems like a lot of extra effort to set up more difficult avenues for things we already have in place. It's a good idea in spirit, detrimental though when you really think it out. So if you are pro-separatist, and if you have an argument for why it's a good idea, I'd love to hear it. I know hand2handking is not willing to provide an in-depth explanation. He just thinks it's a novel idea because **** white people

If reparations were to ever be handed out, it should be in the form of business and education loans like some of you in here have already said. To allow fair entry and competition in the current institutions and systems. I don't see how a separate system benefits any body. But I'm willing to hear someone out...

Educate yourself on the history of black owned institutitons and how anything successful gets DESTROYED by the leadership of this country...they dont talk about or teach it so you wouldn't know, if you really wanna have a discussion get some REAL background on this topic 1st...you talking olympics and a whole bunch of other bs, only word that meant anything in your post was education

hand2handking riles ppl up cuz he can get extreme, but he brings up alotta stuff that ppl dont want to talk bout or face the ugliness dealing with race in this country from the past and present ...it aint all sweet out here, not as simple as everybody coming together in harmony like you and others say ...N I havent really advocated for separation in here, was just pointing out how it looks for a white dude dismissing having our own **** and talking bout its gonna lead to people being "broke and lonely"

frshstunna said:

Educate yourself on the history of black owned institutitons and how anything successful gets DESTROYED by the leadership of this country...they dont talk about or teach it so you wouldn't know, if you really wanna have a discussion get some REAL background on this topic 1st...you talking olympics and a whole bunch of other bs, only word that meant anything in your post was education

hand2handking riles ppl up cuz he can get extreme, but he brings up alotta stuff that ppl dont want to talk bout or face the ugliness dealing with race in this country from the past and present ...it aint all sweet out here, not as simple as everybody coming together in harmony like you and others say ...N I havent really advocated for separation in here, was just pointing out how it looks for a white dude dismissing having our own **** and talking bout its gonna lead to people being "broke and lonely"

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Whose to say I'm not educated? That's not really for you to say when you've contributed no substance of your own to this discussion. We are having a discussion already. If you really wanna engage and continue this conversation and you're saying I wouldn't know... then teach me, or point me to where I can learn. Until you do that, yes, I can only speak on what I know and you haven't said anything of substance in return. What are you really trying to say? I'm not sure you even know.

So what do I know... Black Wall Street. We all saw what happened there. It's no secret the country and it's internal systems was designed and manipulated to benefit old, rich, racist, white men. So it's also no surprise Black Wall Street was destroyed by those same individuals. Truly disheartening but an example to be learned from. Is it easier/better to loudly go against the grain, or to quietly assimilate and distribute the wealth afterward? The old, rich, racist white men demographic is dying out now and from what I've seen in my personal life there are more people willing to coexist than to continue this divide. I'll still advocate for that. What about all the mixed couples out there? We're all one big melting pot. Moving forward there will be more and more opportunities.

hand2handking brought up the subject and we're talking about it right now. I'm not afraid to speak on it just because I'm white. If some of what I'm saying comes off uninformed then inform me. I'm not dismissing anything. I 100% acknowledge the barriers and extra hurdles blacks have to face that whites don't. If anything is evidence of this it's the industry I started my own small business in. I'm in the cannabis industry. So historically blacks have been racially profiled, and received sentencing (and harsher sentencing than others) for possessing a small amount of a harmless flower. Black people have played a huge role in establishing this industry in the black market but now that it is legal they are once again at a disadvantage for success. The same people that built the industry, many of them have a criminal record as a result and are now barred entry to legally do what they've been doing their whole lives. So yeah that's just one example I've seen personally and now there are plenty of others just like that.

And I still do still believe the separatism mindset will lead to being broke and lonely. Half of the people I deal with on a business level are black and I need them just as much as they need me.

@Hennessy i have  no intention of  replying to you past this one point

you betray yourself and your true intentions with your personal shots against me

also the fact that you feel so entitled that i must write an in-depth "explanation"  just for you special snowflake

i dont know what "separatist" rhetoric you are talking about either

Hand2HandKing said:

@Hennessy i have no intention of replying to you past this one point

you betray yourself and your true intentions with your personal shots against me

also the fact that you feel so entitled that i must write an in-depth "explanation"  just for you special snowflake

i dont know what "separatist" rhetoric you are talking about either

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That's fine I expected just as much from you.

Business LOANS? You spelled "grants" wrong No way we should have to pay back the money.

Education is most certainly the key on how to move in this business world, but more importantly, educating ourselves and the youngins on our history and excellence is another thing we have to do now.

Learn from the past and keep moving, silently.

If reparations were to be awarded, how do you envision the process? Education grants? A lump sum pay out?

Would current success (making over a certain threshold) prevent you from participating?

How do you prove that your family was impacted directly? Especially since certain birth records weren't maintained and someone could lie that they had family members impacted by slavery.

Does being mixed (half white/half black) impact eligibility?

Keep up the conversation, I'm trying to learn as much as possible.

If there is a payout, ya think NH would want a piece of the pie?

hennessy

-The post you quoted was an answer to a hypothetical scenario proposed by Brolic: Tomorrow the black community gets reparations, what should they do with it.

Reparations is not popular with society, even a lot of liberal black people don't want them .Reparations of any kind are not happening in my lifetime, probably ever, so while I support them, I don't delude myself to thinking it will happen. Even if it did happen that it would not be a panacea. So I make a lot of sweeping assumptions in my post, like the assumption that America is now socially democratic state that protects the poor and marginalized (see my first line of the post, and my post before that one) and that the black community as a whole has the knowledge to proceed as best they should

-Secondly, read my first post regarding MLK, and you know I say in the politics thread a lot. It is in regards to changing the way the economy runs. These things can definitely change. They have changed multiple times over the past century, and states have passed or repealed laws that make the situation worst or better. Sorry, but as a economist, I am not going to believe our public policy is fixed. If liberals, minorities, young people, and progressives had voted in mass in every for the past 25 years, our socioeconomic system would be much different than it is now.

-Yes I agree with educating people, especially the young on how to navigate the socioeconomic system, however I am also a big believer it fighting tooth and nail to try and change the socioeconomic system, at the same time. That is why I am so big on organizing and voting as well. Like I said before, these things are not mutually exclusive. The black community, or any community, can pool resources, be politically active and take and interest in public policy, and so educate themselves on how to navigate the current economy

---------You're a good dude, and I know you mean well when you say that it is not just bad for black people, but I have to push back on that point from multiple angles. First, institutionalized racism and neoliberalism so hand in hand. The era of shared posterity (which the upper and middle classes) ended when the white middle class was told they finally had to share with the black people. Conservative and Southern whites were big supporters of quality public education, and infrastructure spending when they thought those services were strictly for them. Many put their racial anxiety ahead of their economic well being, and put policy makers in place that have ravaged them.

So while it is true that poor black and poor white are in the same class fight together, only one group routinely acts against their own self interest. When it comes to class unity, it is not black folk that need the lecture.

Secondly, on a personal level, I do see the fight for economic justice and social justice as an intersectional fight, that expands across racial lines. Even with other woke dudes on NT I have gotten blow back for being to liberal, or to told I am too soft for saying things like I still think the white supremacist that hates my guts is still entitled to have good schools to send his kids too, good health insurance, be food secure, drive on good roads, etc.

I do this not because I am so much better or forgiving that the next man. I do this because I believe that their needs to be an expansion of some universal programs to help everyone; and I am not gonna be revengeful, ignorant, or morally bankrupt as the white supremacist that would deny me those services if they had the chance.

-------Regarding Hand2Hand, I have disagreed with some stuff he has posted on NT, but I have to push back on the notion that people like him don't help. They do

Not just because they keeps the issue at the forefront, but because as Malcolm X preached towards the end of his life, people that seem unpleasant or violent in the movement only get a voice when the more moderate black people get ignored. If MLK got everything done easily, there would be no need for the Panthers, if Barrak Obama or Bryan Stevneson would get their way on things, then dudes with stronger rhetoric would not have an audience of pissed, off fed up, black folk to preach too.

If we truly reform the police, then black people won't riot after a killing. If we truly work work day in day out to tear down the system of white supremacy, then people like Hand2Hand might not feel the need to seek vengeance.

But if you tell folk to deal play the ****** hand they were dealt best they can, and have a good attitude about it, be sure than not everyone will be enthusiastic about that prospect. Not matter how well intended you might have been with your advice.

----------

Finally I do support black business and much as I can, and I volunteer and mentor. However their are no black own banks around me as far as I know, also, I think the black own bank thing is kinda propped up too much. While it is good, I think it is more symbolic than practical. I have other ideas about banking, outside this discussion.

ksteezy said:

If there is a payout, ya think NH would want a piece of the pie?

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He doesn't need reparations he's doing great. His mother is going to pass down her generational wealth in the form of rent controlled apartment to him once she passes away. He's been afforded a jump start on those who he tells to "pick themselves up by da bootstraps" in the form of free food and rent provided by living with his mother and her government aide for his entire existence. He's doing so well, in fact, that he has been able to buy Porsche money worth of depreciating assets. A luxury many of us are not afforded. On top of that he's got a great job as a truck driver. The wages he pulls in 10 years...phew...you could put a jesus piece on layaway 10 years for the amount! AND...ANDDD!!! When his mom's gone, that spacious apartment will finally be all his.

So no, I don't think he'll want a piece of the pie. Dude is doing it already and doesn't need any reparations. He's the hood dream. A perfect example of glass-ceiling minority content with being opressed.

RustyShackleford said:

Finally I do support black business and much as I can, and I volunteer and mentor. However their are no black own banks around me as far as I know, also, I think the black own bank thing is kinda propped up too much. While it is good, I think it is more symbolic than practical. I have other ideas about banking, outside this discussion.

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Yeah banks in general are a broken part of the economic system. It's really scary that we are moving completely away from cash as well.

Banks don't give a good return on your money. They really just hold it. Well, they really just give it out to other people and make money at your own expense while offering you next to nothing. For that reason at least, you may want to put your money in a black-owned bank because at least your money (which the bank is basically holding hostage) can be used by other people who need a loan from that bank, and they will likely be black. I will disagree with you and say that it actually IS more practical than symbolic as a way to build wealth in the black community. But it takes successful people like you and I to put our money in that bank first and let the bank choose who they will lend our money too. But yeah, **** banks in general. Keep $10k in there and get your own safe/assets.

You can't deposit more than $10k cash into a bank without being subjected to a suspicion filing. You might be saying, "well yeah that makes sense it's a lot of cash to deposit and may be associated with something illegal." Well the same thing applies with taking out more than $10k. The bank might not even have that on hand. And if they do, you will have a suspicion report filed against you. Did you know if you want to close a bank account with more than $10k in it they usually won't let you withdraw that cash? You'd have to find another bank and your first bank would write a check to transfer the balance. Essentially, anything in excess of $10k in the bank is worthless and should be invested into other assets. I found this out the hard way when I tried to empty an account and was told I couldn't receive my money in cash :x

I use Industrial Bank in DC. You can look into Harbor Bank in MD/Baltimore. And I know there are others as well. If you're still using Bank of America, Wells Fargo, or something similar after this discussion...you're playing yourself.

Yea, loans are the main reason why people are encouraging banking black. A black business owner would have a less difficult time getting a loan from a black bank than say BofA or the likes, that's reality.