2017 NFL off-season thread / We have moved threads, mod please lock!

Does NickFolarin want to be a Lion fan again?

  • Yes, too bad he can't go back

  • No, he will wear his Bortles jersey with pride (but really shame)


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@NickFolarin
 

Hopefully he balls out. Dante Fowler is looking like a bust atm, after missing his rookie season and losing his staring spot to a rookie last season.
 
Naw Cian really is trash. He was promoting his Carr is trash viewpoint long after Carr proved he wasn't trash and Oakland's offense/team/coaching staff was just extremely terrible his rookie year. Cian is still living on that Carr isn't good island tho. He's a trash reporter.

:lol:

I've seen some of his work on Carr, you all just refuse to believe it.

If Carr is driving late 4th and throws one directly to a CB, and that CB drops it, then Carr throws a TD to win, you actually give credit to Carr?

Look at Peyton vs Pitt. Trailing, throws a dying *** duck right into the DB's hands, point blank easy INT, dropped. Peyton goes down and scores.

Why would you credit the QB for that situation?

Brady in the Super Bowl, didn't he throw an INT that got dropped, and somehow caught by Edelman?


That is Cian's point(s). We completely exonerate any QB who throws an "interception" because DB's can't do their ******* job.

Know who take blame? Matt Ryan, Ben, and whoever Carr was playing that day at QB, NOT the defensive backs who failed at their jobs.

But hey, why listen to logic, right? Easier to just dismiss and stay with the rest of the flock. :pimp:
 
Naw Cian really is trash. He was promoting his Carr is trash viewpoint long after Carr proved he wasn't trash and Oakland's offense/team/coaching staff was just extremely terrible his rookie year. Cian is still living on that Carr isn't good island tho. He's a trash reporter.

:lol:

I've seen some of his work on Carr, you all just refuse to believe it.

If Carr is driving late 4th and throws one directly to a CB, and that CB drops it, then Carr throws a TD to win, you actually give credit to Carr?

Look at Peyton vs Pitt. Trailing, throws a dying *** duck right into the DB's hands, point blank easy INT, dropped. Peyton goes down and scores.

Why would you credit the QB for that situation?

Brady in the Super Bowl, didn't he throw an INT that got dropped, and somehow caught by Edelman?


That is Cian's point(s). We completely exonerate any QB who throws an "interception" because DB's can't do their ******* job.

Know who take blame? Matt Ryan, Ben, and whoever Carr was playing that day at QB, NOT the defensive backs who failed at their jobs.

But hey, why listen to logic, right? Easier to just dismiss and stay with the rest of the flock. :pimp:

I'll have to read what Cian has said about Carr specifically, but if your generalization of how Cian looks at it is exactly what you said, then I can understand it. But I would fully expect Cian to give credit to these QBs for making the elite throws they do and making smart decisions as well; I know that Derek made incredible throws and extended plays that had no business being successful last season and I don't think that is given enough credit.

If Cian does NOT give credit where it's due then it would seem to me he's being a contrarian for the sake of doing so, which doesn't have much value in itself.
 
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I agree with that as well, I would hope he does give credit for certain plays/throws, absolutely.

But from what I've seen of him, he focuses a lot on sequencing, you make an elite throw after a failed interception, or interceptable ball, he doesn't really give the credit for the "next" throw. And there is merit there.

Joe Montana throwing "The Catch" outta bounds
Eli and the helmet catch
Cunningham to Moss vs 3 defenders
Hail Mary's

QB's shouldn't get credit for those type of things, but measuring them is difficult. Cian digs deeper than 1938 stats, yards from scrimmage etc.

I'm not saying he has it 100% straight, nobody does, but I agree things need to be viewed better.

I remember rookie Carr throw 14,000 passes sideways, but year 2 Carr seemed to be throwing deep a ton. The basic numbers stay same, 4K, 30TD's, 10-15 INT's, etc, but how they got there are two very different ways.

Same as Brady with Moss v Brady with dump offs. Totals are similar, throws are not. How do we quantify them?

Cian tries, but like I said, easier to just dismiss him and stick with old way of thinking.
 
Having watched Bradford during his time with the eagles.. and reluctantly when he did play for the Rams on a couple of occasions

And a couple of games for the vikes.. Not sure that is the hill someone should want to die upon





As I've said a couple times it's asking a lot of national guys to cover every team to the level of degree as local guys.. hence why I am more inclined to side with the opinions of others over the big names

It becomes obvious when these guys start talking about the team you follow.. I have zero expectations for bill barnwell or other guys to know every detail about the eagles their job is bigger than that

The information Cian is claiming to know is more than the coaches for teams have responsibilities for and we all have an idea of how much work goes into game prep by teams on a weekly basis.. he compounds that by being a dismissive douche

By no means am I saying dude is knowledgeable or good at his job.. but there is a lot that goes into a singular football play
 
He just put out a book where he pours over every snap for every QB.

He uses "stats" no one else does, breaks down sack faults (sacks that are, or aren't the QB's fault, etc)

Dropped passes, INT's that are not on the QB, completions short of the first down markers that turn into first downs (WR YAC), Interceptable passes not caught by DB's.

His Twitter bio even says he once watched 600 Osweiler snaps in 48 hours. :lol: Dude is a gluten for punishment. :lol:

I don't have the book but he's been talking about it for a while now. If I see it I'm definitely checking it out.

As far as teams you follow, Omar Kelly follows the Dolphins. Omar, ******, Kelly. If you believe one word that dude says over a guy that watches every QB in the league EVERY SNAP, then I can't help ya. Local guys surely know things, learn things, hear things etc, but most of them are mouth pieces or in my case, just brain dead. Omar gets most of his info from Miko. Funny thing is, she prolly smarter than Omar. :lol:

As for dismissive douche, well, he's from Europe, I mean.... :lol:
 
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I didn't even know he was Irish until he was on lebatard, and I'm like why the **** they talking to this European dude about American football than I realized it was him. I definitely feel he does have preconceived notions about some players but so do a lot of guys on twitter.
 
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breaks down sack faults (sacks that are, or aren't the QB's fault, etc)

How is this even possible without access to that team's playbook and understanding everyone's responsibilities on a play..

Sure, some plays are clearly on a individual player.. but it is no where near that simple.. having access to all 22 footage isn't going to give you that answer



That's why I'll take dominque foxworth over any of these dudes.. he qualifies the little we go in with before explaining what he could figure out and the possibilities that a situation could be.. and he speaks to his ability to identify coverages within the secondary and aspects of WRs play.. but talks of his limitations with other positions on the field, like say dline play
 
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You guys are basically discussing the PFF style of analysis.  It definitely has its pros and cons and there's a lot of disagreement about it even in the analyst/sportswriter community.  Personally I think its OK if you look beyond the scores and actually read the articles they put out, but the criticism that they don't actually know players' responsibilties seems accurate.
 
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