2017 NBA Playoffs Thread - CLE @ BOS Game 5 on TNT

[38816]

What does that have to do with his stats? His scoring went from 16 even to 15.9. FG% improved. 3P% went from .348 to .361 and 2P% went from .475 to .491.

A 16 PPG scorer with 3 assist and 4 rebounds PER isn't considered a good NBA player? He's not the guy you want leading your team (the issue in Orlando) but still a good player.

yet, yall criticize russell for not deferring to him?

makes sense.

If the Cavs disappeared off the face of the Earth and OKC was considered an Eastern conference team, Thunder would be a top 4 east seen and they would make the finals ala 2001 Sixers and 2007 Cavs, and get promptly destroyed by real competition.

i agree.

which is kind of my entire point.




i was talking to a dude earlier about harden vs westbrook for MVP

he goes "russ didn't win. he got put out"

i'm like "but what if hou wins the chip? whats the difference if you faced them in the 1st round or the finals?"

dude said "its a big difference"

how?

i was never under any impression that OKC would beat anyone in any series......they shouldn't have even made the playoffs.

they made the playoffs ONLY because of westbrooks style of play, which, supposedly, isn't a winning style of play.

unless he gets actual professional basketball players, we may never know.

(i want to see blake go to OKC SO BAD now....)

 

[the collector]

So are increases in his FG% due to him improving his own game or Russ getting him better looks. Cause when I showed you that the numbers of players with Wall either barely increased marginally, stayed the same or got worse he's still making his teammates better. So which is it?

That's Russ getting him looks. Which makes no sense why you play hero ball 82 games instead of building some type of rhythm with your teammates.

The case you've made against Wall implies the Wizards players could go anywhere and continue what they've done no problem. Which isn't keeping it 100 at all. If Otto went to BK in the offseason he may put up numbers due to a usage increase but at the same time without someone like Wall to draw defenders he may actually crumble. Highly doubt he gets close to leading the NBA in 3P% again. Wall makes them better.

A higher usage rate will always give players more opportunities to score more points. Efficiency will drop in the process. Hence why it took Russ 30+ shots to get 47 points.

 

[the collector]

yet, yall criticize russell for not deferring to him?

makes sense.

He's in a better roll with OKC then he is in Orlando. That's without question.

 

[thirdtimearound]

People always forget this part of Kobe's career.

When LeBron haters were killing him for going to Miami they would always bring up Kobe like he didn't request a trade before LA finally got him help.

Kobe was at the peak of his athletic prime. with TRUE bums like Kwame, Smush and Mihm. And was STILL one rebound away from ousting the Suns who also had the MVP ( which people thought could have gone to Kobe, but apparently wins matter less in 2017). Including overtime, dude scored 50 that game.

He was a proven winner and a 10 year vet. Think about his situation. Not only that, but after 3 years in being a middling team from 2005-2007, the team chemistry finally elevated the team in 2008. They actually had a pretty good record before Bynum went down and before the Pau trade.

 

[akajae]

But I did get in to all the schools so far...

so where is the "bonus money" you promised me?

my dude said he would buy me a christmas gift if he got into college.

but i guess my editing services sucked so bad you got into the two schools LMAO

you definitely wouldn't have gotten in with what you sent me....essay was borderline ESL.

you're welcome.


i will block you now.


back to basketball.

i never caped for kobe. he went on sportscenter, live, and cried to be traded.

People always forget this part of Kobe's career.

When LeBron haters were killing him for going to Miami they would always bring up Kobe like he didn't request a trade before LA finally got him help.

Kobe playing chess...

Phil taught him well

 

[Benny Hinn]

NT After Hours

 

[38816]

He's in a better roll with OKC then he is in Orlando. That's without question.

the role of "stand in the corner, away from me."? yeah, i guess.

That's Russ getting him looks. Which makes no sense why you play hero ball 82 games instead of building some type of rhythm with your teammates.

The case you've made against Wall implies the Wizards players could go anywhere and continue what they've done no problem. Which isn't keeping it 100 at all. If Otto went to BK in the offseason he may put up numbers due to a usage increase but at the same time without someone like Wall to draw defenders he may actually crumble. Highly doubt he gets close to leading the NBA in 3P% again. Wall makes them better.

A higher usage rate will always give players more opportunities to score more. Efficiency will drop in the process. Hence why it took Russ 30+ shots to get 47 points.

otto porter gonna be a mid bag wherever he goes. he's actually better than most of OKCs roster, also.

he was a good example to use for your point, tho.

he vastly improved his spot up shooting SPECIFICALLY because wall needed that and would take advantage of it. almost like a lebron "go spot up and i got you" style.

BUT

he'd get those same open looks playing with russell, and unlike andre robertson, prolly wouldn't go 1-7 for 3 points in an elimination game....

 

[friscostylez]

Lol he was stunting for NT. After I sent the essay, he told me it wasn't bad & only made minor edits. Just think about how hurt he was that he had to bring that up.

 

[MVP]

That's Russ getting him looks. Which makes no sense why you play hero ball 82 games instead of building some type of rhythm with your teammates.

The case you've made against Wall implies the Wizards players could go anywhere and continue what they've done no problem. Which isn't keeping it 100 at all. If Otto went to BK in the offseason he may put up numbers due to a usage increase but at the same time without someone like Wall to draw defenders he may actually crumble. Highly doubt he gets close to leading the NBA in 3P% again. Wall makes them better.

A higher usage rate will always give players more opportunities to score more points. Efficiency will drop in the process. Hence why it took Russ 30+ shots to get 47 points.

This is hogwash. Vic took 14 shots a game during the regular season and 12 a game during the playoffs. Him bricking those same looks he was hitting at a decent rate according to you is on Russ?

You always bring up Otto so I'll as you this, are you suggesting that if he was playing with any other elite PG that he wouldn't get those same open looks? That only happens with Wall. If your answer is yes, then you would have to age that if Roberson played with the Wizards he'd be near leading the league in 3 pt % just cause Wall would empower him to make shots.

 

[38816]

Kobe was at the peak of his athletic prime. with TRUE bums like Kwame, Smush and Mihm. And was STILL one rebound away from ousting the Suns who also had the MVP ( which people thought could have gone to Kobe, but apparently wins matter less in 2017). Including overtime, dude scored 50 that game.

He was a proven winner and a 10 year vet. Think about his situation. Not only that, but after 3 years in being a middling team from 2005-2007, the team chemistry finally elevated the team in 2008. They actually had a pretty good record before Bynum went down and before the Pau trade.

hall of famers carry bums everyday, b.

kobe wasn't special.

he the only dude who cried, live, on sportscenter, tho.

to my knowledge....


my mans said TRUE bums

like snow, hughes, palovic, big z isn't a garbage bag line up (remember, 3 years later, none of them played professional basketball)

or snow (AGAIN!) mckee, radliff and 100 year old mutumbo wasn't TRUE bum lineup.

lebron actually has multiple all time bummiest rosters lol

remember when he brought wally szerbiack back? LOL my mans was out there playing 20 minutes with a face shield, shoulder sleeve, two knee braces and the forrest gump shoes.

LOL

 

[38816]

If your answer is yes, then you would have to age that if Roberson played with the Wizards he'd be near leading the league in 3 pt % just cause Wall would empower him to make shots.

my dude went 1-7 in an elimination game and it's russell westbrook's fault.....

should have passed him the ball more.

LOL

 

[the collector]

This is hogwash. Vic took 14 shots a game during the regular season and 12 a game during the playoffs. Him bricking those same looks he was hitting at a decent rate according to you is on Russ?

You always bring up Otto so I'll as you this, are you suggesting that if he was playing with any other elite PG that he wouldn't get those same open looks? That only happens with Wall. If your answer is yes, then you would have to age that if Roberson played with the Wizards he'd be near leading the league in 3 pt % just cause Wall would empower him to make shots.

I never said Wall was the ONLY PG capable of getting players open looks.

John Wall doesn't play the same style of PG Russ does. Why is this so hard for people to accept? Russ has always been a shoot first player. Wall has always been a pass first player.

Which style of PG is more likely to get their teammates in rhythm and build some type of confidence in his troops, the shoot first guy or the pass first guy?

I don't understand how grown men can deny professional athletes need some type of rhythm and confidence to be effective from game to game. The PG is the general. You know with Wall he's looking to dish first. With Russ you don't have that same style of play. His mentality is shoot first. That mindset from your general effects teammates mentalities and approach. How can it not?

You think Russ teammates late in games expect to take the shots or do they expect Russ to take them? On the flip side Walls teammates know it's a likely possibility he's going to look for the open guy to close the deal. They don't stand around waiting for him to take over. They have to be ready to pull the trigger. OKC players know Russ is pulling the trigger. The players mindsets are totally different. Why are they different? It's because one is pass first and one is score first.

 

[MVP]

You didn't answer the question I asked. Is Roberson leading the league in 3pt % playing next to John Wall since his style of play is 'superior'? Also where are all these free agents clamoring to sign with Washington to play with the great John Wall?

 

[the collector]

You didn't answer the question I asked. Is Roberson leading the league in 3pt % playing next to John Wall since his style of play is 'superior'?

No. He's not a 3P shooter. You can't expect a defensive player to start dropping buckets like magic. That's like Wall trying to turn Gortat into a 3P shooting big man.

Russ has players capable of scoring. Your using a bad offensive player on purpose to prove what exactly? I'd bet anything Wall would make Victor a better player then he was this year with Russ.

Players clamoring to play with Wall. What the hell are you talking about? Who's clamoring to play with Russ in OKC? Didn't someone just say they'd rather not play with dude a few days ago? Who's ever said they don't want to play with Wall? Find me one report or anonymous quote.

 

[MVP]

No. He's not a 3P shooter. You can't expect a defensive player to start dropping buckets like magic. That's like Wall trying to turn Gortat into a 3P shooting big man.

Russ has players capable of scoring. Your using a bad offensive player on purpose to prove what exactly? I'd bet anything Wall would make Victor a better player then he was this year with Russ.

The point is that you're trying to give Wall credit for things based on hypothetical scenarios and not the facts. You got players on record saying they've not gotten the looks playing with Russ, which you've said equates to 'making teammates better' when it comes to Wall. But it doesn't work both ways. Wall is making players hit shots too now?

 

[the collector]

The point is that you're trying to give Wall credit for things based on hypothetical scenarios and not the facts. You got players on record saying they've not gotten the looks playing with Russ, which you've said equates to 'making teammates better' when it comes to Wall. But it doesn't work both ways. Wall is making players hit shots too now?

It's impossible to get you to admit your simply wrong about this. Your literally trying to put words in my mouth to make your points valid. You keep jumping to various other things like making a defensive player a offensive player, who's clamoring to play with this guy and now Wall makes players hit shots. I explained above it's a offensive rhythm and mentality thing but you refuse to accept or even entertain the thought. You win. It's a waste of time.

 

[38816]

You think Russ teammates late in games expect to take the shots or do they expect Russ to take them? On the flip side Walls teammates know it's a likely possibility he's going to look for the open guy to close the deal. They don't stand around waiting for him to take over. They have to be ready to pull the trigger. OKC players know Russ is pulling the trigger. The players mindsets are totally different. Why are they different? It's because one is pass first and one is score first.

its not this black and white.

every professional basketball player should be prepared and ready for the ball when they are open. period.

it doesnt matter if you play with a scoring or non-scoring PG.


it's funny you talk about wall as a pass-first point guard like that was out of choice.

he can't score like russell. never has. never will. that's fine.

take it to an even further "pass-first" extreme; rondo.

people called me a troll, just like in this thread, when i said rondo was the best PG in the NBA the season he averaged 20 assists for like the first 4 or 5 games.

It was trolling because rondo can't even score. well, now you have a scoring PG and he's getting knocked for it.

Rose didn't get knocked for averaging less than 7 assists and averaging 25...but winning the MVP (they won 60 games...IN THE EAST, but still) he wasn't a "ball hog" or "selfish" although he averaged 20 shots and shot 34-33 (average over those two years) averaged 4 rebounds and 3.4 Turnovers.....people LOVED MVP rose

.....hate MVP russy.

and rose had a ROSTER (i thought they were overrated but he had players)

locked up by bron on the final possession, hasn't been the same since.

Russy dropping 47 in an elimination game and all yall got to say is "he took 35 shots!" who else was going to take them? 1-7? 4-17? 0-2? 0-3?

it's funny that it's so hard for you guys to accept that russell shooting first ALSO opens the floor for his teammates.

why would you be a pass-first PG if you're un-guardable?

he doesn't have the shooters to run them around screens, iso, then kick. he doesn't have anyone capable of doing that.

when russell "takes over" your side of the argument wants to say this is a conscious effort, showing his immaturity and selfishness....that he loses trust in his teammates and refuses to defer to them....

instead of considering the possibility that these teammates are BEGGING HIM to SAVE THEM....AND HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS...HIM HOGGING IS THE BEST OPTION OKC HAS...THERE ARE NO OTHER PLANS OR OPTIONS....THIS IS THE BEST ONE....and they still lost 4-1.

victor aint want them shots just like KD aint want them shots.

russy ain't scared of your criticism....or of failing.

he damn sure aint about to cower in the moment and beg someone else to save him...

win, lose or draw.

 

[38816]

No. He's not a 3P shooter. You can't expect a defensive player to start dropping buckets like magic. That's like Wall trying to turn Gortat into a 3P shooting big man.

Russ has players capable of scoring. Your using a bad offensive player on purpose to prove what exactly? I'd bet anything Wall would make Victor a better player then he was this year with Russ.

Players clamoring to play with Wall. What the hell are you talking about? Who's clamoring to play with Russ in OKC? Didn't someone just say they'd rather not play with dude a few days ago? Who's ever said they don't want to play with Wall? Find me one report or anonymous quote.

no, he's not a three point shooter. but it's russy's fault he's not a three point shooter? not even a pass-first PG could make him better? so you knocking westbrook for not making players better when NOBODY can make them better? seems legit.

otto porter was a defensive player, no? magically started dropping 3s, no?

you say it's because wall is pass-first....i think it's cause he shot a lot of threes over the summer.

penetration-kick is not a concept unique to john wall or pass-first PGs.

You brought up otto porter.

he brought up OKC's most similar player, andre robertson.

it's a very good comparison, as both players are very similar.

instead of acknowledging this point, you deflected.

otto porter is/was just as bad an offensive player as robertson...and just as much a "defensive specialist" because of it.

One improved his game and became an asset to his point guard, the other was a liability on the court who was intentionally fouled, then laughed off the foul line.

name one player john wall has played with on any level who was sent to the line on purpose, then LAUGHED AT.....i'll wait. (and your starting SF, at that..)

name the players russ has who are capable scorers.

they ALL need to be spoon fed.

ESPECIALLY his bigs. i don't even acknowledge that there are any other guards on the roster.


define clamoring to play with wall....because the wiz only signed trey burke in the offseason, cuh.

 

[EddieDoyers]

lol Wall stan vs Westbrook stan

How about they are both elite PGs

 

[the collector]

I never said players were clamoring to play with Wall. That's what Mamba said. I repeated it in response.

Im done.

 

[38816]

It's impossible to get you to admit your simply wrong about this. Your literally trying to put words in my mouth to make your points valid. You keep jumping to various other things like making a defensive player a offensive player, who's clamoring to play with this guy and now Wall makes players hit shots. I explained above it's a offensive rhythm and mentality thing but you refuse to accept or even entertain the thought. You win. It's a waste of time.

i mean, YOU brought up otto porter, a defensive (well, certainly not OFFENSIVE player) who improved his game via 3 point shooting ONLY to attribute his growth and success to john wall being a pass-first PG.....

YOU also introduced the idea of who wants to play with who.....and now, have a problem with it?

how wall makes players hit shots? BRO YOU BROUGHT UP OTTO PORTER TO ATTRIBUTE HIS SHOOTING IMPROVEMENT TO JOHN WALL!!!!!!! YOU WERE DEFINITELY MAKING IT SEEM LIKE JOHN WALL MAKES THIS PLAYER, AT LEAST, HIT MORE SHOTS, INNATELY, THAN RUSSELL WESTBROOK! if this wasn't your intent, it's the argument we, and anyone who reads, drew from it.

THEN, when presented with a scenario which you can't deflect or sidestep, (replacing porter with robertson) you say "making a defensive player an offensive player" or "its a waste of time. you win"?

you already answered the question; no, robertson would still be a bum, even with pass-first wall. that's all you had to say. all this extra is you trying to save face...and for what? these little kids on NT?

our entire point is that even john wall has superior teammates to russell westbrook. you can't even continue with a hypothetical swapping out their 5th best players LOL that's how garbage robertson is.....you can't even fathom it.

also, it doesn't have to be an ether situation EVERYTIME on here.

you can just have a discussion. you can acknowledge his points. he can acknowledge yours.

"you win i quit" is classic internet for "i have no reply to that"

 

[617collector]

View media item 2417642

 

[38816]

lol Wall stan vs Westbrook stan

How about they are both elite PGs

i actually like both and have been a wall fan longer than a russy fan.

View media item 2417642

so glad you came in here to make this wonderful contribution. I assure you; everyone in this thread cares.

 

[38816]

he asked you where these players are at, who want to play with john wall, conversely, since you said "nobody wants to play with westbrook" (key word: CONVERSELY)

and your response was unrelated to the question.

if you say "westbrook plays style A. nobody wants to play with style A. John Wall plays style B, which is opposite of style A."

it's logical to assume people WANT to play with the OPPOSITE of the style of play they DONT want to play with....even if you don't make this point implicit.

you're getting mad we're reading what you're typing, then comprehending it.

if john wall's style of play is so much better than westbrook for his teammates, why is there no empirical data to support this claim? why doesn't he have a line of potential teammates out the door? at least much more than westbrook? (this is a pretty irrelevant point. can't judge a player's worth by who wants to play with him. that's a total ESPN claim/point)

you, yourself admitted, not even pass-first john wall could turn robertson into a scorer...but IN THE SAME BREATH criticize russell for not getting robertson in rhythm and ultimately making him a better.....scorer?

do you see how this is a contradiction?

"russy doesnt make his players better..."

"could john wall make ____ better?"

"no way, that guy will never be better...."

like, how do you knock russy then give wall a pass? in a hypothetical of all things?

 

[statis22]

Should've amnestied Perkins. Didn't have to make big decisions till summer 2013.

That's all I got.