AJ IV, V, VI, durabuck, nubuck, suede, and what it is that makes people so heated.

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Joined Apr 7, 2010
[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]EDIT BY POPULAR DEMAND: Since everyone (almost) whining about me posting without paragraphs, here you go...[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]With the whole swirling hype around the "infared pack", lets take some time to actually talk about the suede, durabuck, nubuck, and the real genuine differences. i went to my den and pulled out all of my retro vi (2000, DMP, and 2010) to look for real differences. yes suede makes the AJ VI much different from originals, retro, and dmp, yet lets throw another shoe into this discussion to really see a real difference with the same supposed material. i pulled out the AJ IV from 1999, and i compared them to the CDP IV. the difference is really significant. the 1999 retro nubuck doesn't attract dust as much as the CDP. the CDP IV is made with a really bad version of nubuck, durabuck, etc. the CDP start to look really beat after 10X wears, and the 1999 IV were able to be worn at least 20X without looking really thrashed. so now we can make the transition to the VI. i compared the DMP to the V-RED, the suede makes a lot of significant differences to the VI, in my opinion, i really like the suede compared to the nubuck, and i understand that collectors and sneakerheads are in a panic because of the meaning of this particular jordan shoe, MJ won his first title in these, infared was a popular color in fashion at that time, if you look back at the bordeaux VII, nike started using colors that are not Chicago Bulls team colors with the VI, and its not as if jordan wore grape V in games, but that's not my point. [/color]


[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]People really seem to be really emotional about this specific release, when the news about JB not using infared on the black pair, people were insulted, throw in the whole suede material, heads were freaking out, and now with the huge hype with the supposed "infared pack" people will get the V-RED VI if the pack is real or not. international or us only, people will still buy them. the history of infared is really easy to follow, the late 80s to the early 90s, infared was a popular color, as popular as fanny packs, as popular as hyper-color t-shirts, as popular as zubaz even. nike in particular was obsessed with the color, it was used on air max 90, as a primary red, it was used again on the air max 180, nike used it on agassi's shoes, the air structure, air triax, and i believe it was used on a few nike air trainers. the thing here is not just about infared, lets get back to the suede vs. nubuck conversation.[/color]


[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)] Lets look at the jordan IV and V, nike wanted a suede for an air jordan, since they used just leather, and suede was really expensive at that point, so i believe they turned to nubuck, i remember hearing stories about the air jordan IV testers, and that the first testers were suede, and then leather, it was not received well, so they went with the nubuck material, a material that nike used quite often as an alternative to suede, as it was expensive, and hard to keep clean, nubuck was the successful way of using an alternative to suede, that's the story as well as i have heard it, and i have been working at and for nike close to 8 years. the nubuck on the air jordan IV retro was a great material, did not attract dust and dirt as much as the new CDP IV re-retro, so with me wearing both IV lately, as well as the new V-RED VI, as well as the DMP VI, and what i can say is, that i do prefer the nubuck to suede, at least we are getting a retro of the VI, materials aside, the suede VI is not a bad sneaker overall, the true "head" or "collector" will definitely not agree with me on this.[/color]


[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The materials and choice of colorway made everyone pretty much skeptical, and understandably so, and i am not an exception, i only got one pair, instead of getting my usual 3 pairs when retros drop. if the rumors become fact, and the infared pack is a reality, the nubuck (if used) will be much more poor than the retro + and the DMP, and as far as the DMP, they are the best quality of the VI since the 2000 retro + and i hope ( as much as you all probably do ) that if a "infared pack" is released, that nike uses nubuck on them, as opposed to the suede, and i am not complaining about the suede, i think it made that VI release itself a very reliable shoe, it is just the fact that people want air jordans made with the same material that they were originally made of. i also have heard a few complaints about the VI using 3m, i think that it is in a minority that wants the VI incorporating 3m again.[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)] this is all debatable, but i have much insider knowledge, at the same time, i have no news about a "infared pack" and this post was to discuss the suede vs. nubuck/durabuck materials nike used on almost all of the air jordans IV-X, and also remember that nike used suede on the XIII, so it shows that nubuck was a big favorite to nike during the late 80s to the 90s. i have made a few examples of the materials on the IV, as well as the VI, suede was almost never used on air jordans until the XIII. of course this does exclude GS and toddlers sizing.[/color]




1999 IV retro, pics via Flight Club


And the 2008 CDP IV re-retro:



2000 VI retro + ( what exactly was the plus for? ) also the colorway was black-deep infared.


[color= rgb(255, 0, 51)]the 2006 DMP VI[/color]



and finally the 2010 suede VI





[color= rgb(255, 0, 51)]Say what you will, this is pretty much fact. I have experience with this topic, as I have contributed quite a few shoes to nike, as well as having a hand in a few releases. My last work was in the SB dept. in 2009.[/color]
 
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The suede isn't necessarily the problem. It's the quality of it. I have a pair of Air Jordan XIV retros that are ALL SUEDE, and the suede on those makes the Varsity-Red VIs look like crap.



I understand what you're saying about people being upset about the change of the color and material, but let's not forget, the MAJORITY of people who buy GR releases are not sneaker heads or collectors. They're just people that want a pair of sigs that look nice, and these didn't. I've been dealing with ashy nubuck for quit some time now, but ashy suede???? That s**t is just unacceptable.


This is really a matter of JB gypping their consumers. Most of what you posted is a comparison of materials used on select releases. Notice the older releases have better materials than the recent ones? We all have. We all want to change it, but there is very little we can do. With or without our dollars JB will still make a bundle off these cheaply produced products. With the announcement of Bin 23, they have in so many words openly admitted to giving us inferior products.

All that I can add in closing, is that the durabuck on the White/Black VIs really isn't as bad as it could've been, and just for that I'm greatful. I don't complain about material/quality for 2 reasons: 1. There's nada you can do about it. They'll always be someone that will support it as long as it has a jumpman on it. 2. I know with quality such as this it is pointless to to try to preserve these retros. So, I just take it back to the '90s: Buy a pair, THRASH THE HELL OUT OF'EM and then go buy some news ones.
 
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Joined Jun 12, 2007
Originally Posted by bigj505

all of that text looked like this to me:

definitely need to double space.  

to respond to the issue at hand.  

i like nubuck better than suede because it doesn't seem as black and you can see more detail.
 
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Joined Feb 10, 2008
Originally Posted by Cadwallader

The suede isn't necessarily the problem. It's the quality of it.
Nah, I don't want suede on a shoe if it didn't originally have it regardless of quality.
 
1,079
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Joined Apr 7, 2010
Originally Posted by dtb00201

Originally Posted by Cadwallader

The suede isn't necessarily the problem. It's the quality of it.
Nah, I don't want suede on a shoe if it didn't originally have it regardless of quality.
agreed, the problem is that JB will do whatever they want, and everyone will spend $150-$500 and still complain. retros are made in HUGE #s

IV (1999) 40,000
V(2000) 50,000
VI(2000) 50,000
I (2001) 100,000 DEPENDING ON WHICH #s YOU BELIEVE.
 

Mactastic4167

formerly mac4167
5,885
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Joined Nov 15, 2008
thanks for the read, me personally it doesnt really matter if they put durabuck, nubuck, suede or even freaking leather, if i like it then i buy, if not then keep it moving people make to much of this issue and do nothing but complain. sorry, felt like venting because all ive been reading lately is freaking complaining.
 
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Joined Apr 7, 2010
all there is is mucho speculation around this "infared pack" with no verification on this, and a RD so close, i really do not think that this pack is even real.
 
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Joined May 15, 2003
I still sort of regret not getting the DMP's

I think I could have accepted the suede more if they didn't do the GS sizes in durabuck. That was a slap in the face to us. It should have been reversed.

They're a + colorway to me like the Oreo's. They're ok, just for the fact that black/red is a nice colorway.

There's also bad durabuck, like what's on the CDP IV's.
 
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I understand what you're saying.

The pics show of how bad and cheap the suede jb is using.
(all you v-red owners know it's true, quit lieing to yourselves)

But if Jb uses suede, I wont cop, simple as that.
The shade of red dont bother me, its those ugly materials.

The white/varsity reds look great.
I dont even have any complaints on the "Oreos"

I just dont know why Jb has to use these ugly materials on such a sought after colorway.
 

SteveSteve72

Staff member
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Joined Jan 3, 2009
Durabuck, is a better material then suede and infrared VI's should have durabuck on them. End of story.
 
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Durabuck is better, but that's not the point to me, I want retros that are the same as the original shoe. I want the same materials, same colors, same quality. I know I'll probably never see Nike Air put back on, and it looks like OG quality is never coming back, so at least give me the right materials and the right colors.
 
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