Asian Culture Discussion Thread

9,888
11,015
Joined Feb 22, 2012
Absolutely no Taiwanese person I've ever met (friends, girlfriends, coworkers, acquaintances) over the past 31 years would say that Taiwan is a part of China (there are some Taiwanese who do, but the majority do not identify with the mainland). The rest of the world just agrees to not officially recognize Taiwan as an independent country in order to keep the peace with the Chinese government

All of my Taiwanese friends hate Trump, but they were happy about making China mad when Trump called up President Tsai Ing-Wen, because doing so acknowledged Taiwan as an independent government/country and violated the deal the US had with China in which there's only "one China"

Also marikomorose marikomorose not sure if you knew, but just in case, Taiwan basically formed when the Chinese Communist Party took over the mainland, and the People's Republic of China fled to Taiwan. The different mindsets and goals of the two governments led to the people's ways of life developing differently, which is part of the reason why most Taiwanese do not refer to themselves as Chinese other than when describing their ethnicity (Same goes for Hong Kong) It's kind of like how the majority of the US were technically the same/similar ethnicity as the English, but they had branched off into their own culture and beliefs to the point where they felt that the US should be its own separate country

This is a very dumbed down explanation but seems to be the general idea from my experience. Maybe some Taiwanese NTers can add more or correct me if I'm wrong
 
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26,165
51,484
Joined Nov 16, 2018
Absolutely no Taiwanese person I've ever met (friends, girlfriends, coworkers, acquaintances) over the past 31 years would say that Taiwan is a part of China (there are some Taiwanese who do, but the majority do not identify with the mainland). The rest of the world just agrees to not officially recognize Taiwan as an independent country in order to keep the peace with the Chinese government

All of my Taiwanese friends hate Trump, but they were happy about making China mad when Trump called up President Tsai Ing-Wen, because doing so acknowledged Taiwan as an independent government/country and violated the deal the US had with China in which there's only "one China"

Also marikomorose marikomorose not sure if you knew, but just in case, Taiwan basically formed when the Chinese Communist Party took over the mainland, and the People's Republic of China fled to Taiwan. The different mindsets and goals of the two governments led to the people's ways of life developing differently, which is part of the reason why most Taiwanese do not refer to themselves as Chinese other than when describing their ethnicity (Same goes for Hong Kong) It's kind of like how the majority of the US were technically the same/similar ethnicity as the English, but they had branched off into their own culture and beliefs to the point where they felt that the US should be its own separate country

This is a very dumbed down explanation but seems to be the general idea from my experience. Maybe some Taiwanese NTers can add more or correct me if I'm wrong
Thank you for your breakdwon.
 
109
77
Joined Feb 6, 2013
Absolutely no Taiwanese person I've ever met (friends, girlfriends, coworkers, acquaintances) over the past 31 years would say that Taiwan is a part of China (there are some Taiwanese who do, but the majority do not identify with the mainland). The rest of the world just agrees to not officially recognize Taiwan as an independent country in order to keep the peace with the Chinese government

All of my Taiwanese friends hate Trump, but they were happy about making China mad when Trump called up President Tsai Ing-Wen, because doing so acknowledged Taiwan as an independent government/country and violated the deal the US had with China in which there's only "one China"

Also marikomorose marikomorose not sure if you knew, but just in case, Taiwan basically formed when the Chinese Communist Party took over the mainland, and the People's Republic of China fled to Taiwan. The different mindsets and goals of the two governments led to the people's ways of life developing differently, which is part of the reason why most Taiwanese do not refer to themselves as Chinese other than when describing their ethnicity (Same goes for Hong Kong) It's kind of like how the majority of the US were technically the same/similar ethnicity as the English, but they had branched off into their own culture and beliefs to the point where they felt that the US should be its own separate country

This is a very dumbed down explanation but seems to be the general idea from my experience. Maybe some Taiwanese NTers can add more or correct me if I'm wrong
Just to throw in some nuance/complexities -- I think while most Taiwanese think that Taiwan is a sovereign state, there's a lack of consensus about (1) whether being a sovereign state = independent country, and (2) if Taiwan is already a country, which country is it (i.e., is it Taiwan, or is it the Republic of China).

Relevant excerpt from https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/what-do-taiwans-people-think-about-their-relationship-to-china/

"What is notable are the options corresponding to the status quo. Tsai’s position (Taiwan is an independent country already, while pursuing state normalization) received around 31.9 percent support as the ideal option for Taiwan’s political future. It shows a strong base of light green supporters in Taiwan. But another 53.9 percent of the public choose to maintain the status quo as the ROC at this moment – 25 percent support the idea of two de facto independent countries across the strait, while 29 percent tend to support the light blue attitude, not recognizing the PRC as a separate country. Both considered it unnecessary to either declare independence or “fight back” and unify the mainland."

I don't think these differences of opinion are solely attributable to political party divisions; some of this maybe could be attributed to consequences of the Chinese Nationalists fleeing to Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War that sfc415 mentioned.

People in Taiwan used to make more of a point to distinguish between benshengren (ethnic Chinese people in TW who lived there prior to 1945 -- many of whom lived under Japanese occupation) vs. waishengren (ethnic Chinese people who fled to TW after the civil war).
A fair number of the waishengren regarded mainland China as their ancestral home and wanted reunification with China, but under KMT (Nationalist/Republic of China) rule. I think this desire for reunification is a minority position now. Some benshengren viewed the KMT pretty negatively for a host of reasons -- one being the KMT instituted martial law for almost 40 years -- these folks were/are more likely to support TW independence as its own country (Republic of Taiwan or something); reunification is a non-starter for them.

This graph provides a pretty good view of Taiwanese attitudes about independence vs. mainland reunification over time: https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7801&id=6963.

All of my Taiwanese friends hate Trump, but they were happy about making China mad when Trump called up President Tsai Ing-Wen,
A couple of my cousins who moved back to Taiwan the past couple years after spending middle school through college here in the States were talking about the number of TW ppl who loved Trump seemingly for no other reason than just his ability to antagonize China. I didn't really believe it at first until they showed me their social media convos with their peers/colleagues and also saw https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...o-people-asia-pacific-want-win-us-presidentia.
 
7,009
7,057
Joined May 29, 2016
Just to throw in some nuance/complexities -- I think while most Taiwanese think that Taiwan is a sovereign state, there's a lack of consensus about (1) whether being a sovereign state = independent country, and (2) if Taiwan is already a country, which country is it (i.e., is it Taiwan, or is it the Republic of China).

Relevant excerpt from https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/what-do-taiwans-people-think-about-their-relationship-to-china/

"What is notable are the options corresponding to the status quo. Tsai’s position (Taiwan is an independent country already, while pursuing state normalization) received around 31.9 percent support as the ideal option for Taiwan’s political future. It shows a strong base of light green supporters in Taiwan. But another 53.9 percent of the public choose to maintain the status quo as the ROC at this moment – 25 percent support the idea of two de facto independent countries across the strait, while 29 percent tend to support the light blue attitude, not recognizing the PRC as a separate country. Both considered it unnecessary to either declare independence or “fight back” and unify the mainland."

I don't think these differences of opinion are solely attributable to political party divisions; some of this maybe could be attributed to consequences of the Chinese Nationalists fleeing to Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War that sfc415 mentioned.

People in Taiwan used to make more of a point to distinguish between benshengren (ethnic Chinese people in TW who lived there prior to 1945 -- many of whom lived under Japanese occupation) vs. waishengren (ethnic Chinese people who fled to TW after the civil war).
A fair number of the waishengren regarded mainland China as their ancestral home and wanted reunification with China, but under KMT (Nationalist/Republic of China) rule. I think this desire for reunification is a minority position now. Some benshengren viewed the KMT pretty negatively for a host of reasons -- one being the KMT instituted martial law for almost 40 years -- these folks were/are more likely to support TW independence as its own country (Republic of Taiwan or something); reunification is a non-starter for them.

This graph provides a pretty good view of Taiwanese attitudes about independence vs. mainland reunification over time: https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7801&id=6963.



A couple of my cousins who moved back to Taiwan the past couple years after spending middle school through college here in the States were talking about the number of TW ppl who loved Trump seemingly for no other reason than just his ability to antagonize China. I didn't really believe it at first until they showed me their social media convos with their peers/colleagues and also saw https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...o-people-asia-pacific-want-win-us-presidentia.

Good informative post with highlights of nuance/complexities. “It’s Complicated” is the best simple answer. Issue pops up here every so often. This was last conversation. Linked article is also a decent read.



Found the news article from previous post that touched on the specific topic. Bit outdated but info still relevant and interesting. Based on Personal observation and experience, can relate a bit to Eddie Huang’s line of belief. Not good or bad, but understand.
We are approximately 10 percent of the total population. Roughly 2 million solders and civilians escaped to ROC after civil war defeat. Taiwan is over 95% Han Chinese (Hoklo, Hakka, “Mainland” Waishengren). 2.3% are Taiwanese aborigines.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainland_Chinese
(notice the notable Names)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Taiwan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_people


Here is a good news article that shows the different generations reflection on self identity:


:emoji_flag_tw::emoji_flag_um:
 
7,009
7,057
Joined May 29, 2016
this might be the best acting he’s ever done in his career
Had to really pay attention and replay many times, but could understand what he was saying.
Definitely went all in to protect the Money Bag.
Netizens around the World are a distasteful breed and the Mainland ones also have many disagreeable traits.

 
7,009
7,057
Joined May 29, 2016
Different day, Same stuff:

Reason unbelievably dumber and outrageous as previous one.






Those of us with Family and Parents in small business understand and relate to the struggle. All in search of better future for next generations.
🤦‍♂️


Followup: arrested and charged. Trash.



 
6,797
6,138
Joined Oct 7, 2007
Taiwanese checking in . To keep it simple, the Chinese dynasty was ending as the Communist party under Mao started rising. People were poor and desperate and Mao's appeal to the working folk struck at the right time and right place. The existing government started fighting with Mao's Communist party, lost the civil war and fled to Taiwan.

Now there are folk who say if the existing Chinese government took their "government" to Taiwan, then theoretically Taiwan is China, and what we know as mainland now is really a new country that Mao formed.

This generation of Taiwan are majority for independence, or at the very least have the mentality of "just leave us the f alone and stop pointing missiles at us". In the most recent elections, the party that has a better relationship with China and isn't pro independence was actually slightly favored to win. Then the **** in HK happened, and the Taiwanese people saw their potential future if Taiwan didn't take a harder stance. The elections were a landslide because of this and the Democratic party won and that's who Trump called up.

Most the Taiwanese people who still proudly claim they're Chinese are mainly older folk. Those who have direct ties to mainland from the civil war. Taiwanese people now are culturally very different to those from mainland. I'd even say in many ways they're more similar to South Korea / Japan. Taiwan is arguably the most democratic and progressive country in East Asian so their feelings against the CCP have intensified over the past decade.

It is tough seeing your home country not being able to carry their own flag, being disrespected by other major nations because they don't want to lose out on the economic gains of a market that has 1.1 billion people. I left Taiwan when I was 5, but every time I go back I feel like I'm really at home, that I'm not different and I belong. Every time I see a Taiwanese or Taiwanese American flourish I'm immensely proud. I love America but there's a special place in my heart for Taiwan.
 
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