Bill Gates Foundation accused of forcing vaccination at Gunpoint.

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by heavenlee777

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

There's def something more to it than pure benevolence.

Things just don't add up on Gates' part. Why is he obsessed with this? (1)

You can claim it's because a lot of people are dying but that's not really the case. Look at the worlds population. It's not being driven by developed countries either. Countries that have low vaccination rates have some of the highest population growth rates in the world. (2)

You can claim that he wants to help but wouldn't focusing on economic development in those countries help more than on vaccinations? The overwhelming problem in those countries is poverty as a result of political and economic corruption. It is not death from lack of vaccinations. (3)

1. Africa isn't the only thing he is obsessed with, another is improving the education in the US, and a few years ago it was Robotics (lol this is going to stir up some conspiracy theories). Also, vaccinations aren't the only thing he's obsessed with in Africa, he is obsessed with their Education, Technology, and Agriculture as well. He's also been helping Africa for the last two decades I think, and if I had his money, I would be doing exactly what he is doing, trying to help the world.  
2. What? What's your point here? Are you saying that Gates is trying to kill these people? The reason there are high birth rates in undeveloped countries is because they lack healthcare (birth control), and also because in less developed countries they also lack technology. So they are basically living in the past where more children = more helping hands. The bad thing with more children is that more children = more time, work, money. If your country is poor, your children may not end up getting all the benefits because you might not be able to take care of them all because of the conditions of the country. Gates wants to give these children vaccinations because that is one step into getting the country out of shambles because children are the future. Think about it, when you are sick, can you really think? What do you focus on when you are sick? Especially when you have multiple illnesses? You most likely focus on the pain. So giving children vaccinations rids them of these sicknesses where they can focus on other things like education, and ultimately improve their country. By the way, the life expectancy in most African countries is in the low 30's I believe. Giving them vaccinations will greatly help them. 
3. Well once again, giving the people vaccinations gives them the physical and mental strength to do other things rather than fighting off the illness. You need healthy people in order to have a successful country. So therefore, vaccinations and keeping people healthy is the first step. Also, with vaccinations, this helps economic development because it keeps the people of Africa healthy so they can work more to improve their economy. Their life expectancy is in the 30's, and many of their people are sick, so this is one reason why their economy is in shambles. So by giving the people vaccinations, it is helping their economic development. In order to also help their economic development, Bill Gates is also trying to improve their Agriculture and Technology as well. Also, as stated before, by giving these people vaccinations it gives them more physical and mental strength, where they are able to revolt against their leaders. I also think the main reason why Africa is in such shambles is because of the leaders, this is also why I don't agree with China helping because they are supporting weapons to a corrupt leader. The biggest problem with most corrupt leaders is that they will stay in office until death, but by making the citizens healthy, it gives them more willpower to take action against the corruption. Plus, there are bigger things involved with these corrupt leaders that I don't think Bill Gates can change. 

. Look at the capital outlays. His US education work is no where near his vaccination program . Money talks and it shows what he truly cares about. 
I don't know how you formulated the inference that I thin  Gates wants to kill people. I specifically stated in another post that this may be the most "benevolent" form of population control. Eradicating poverty would be better served by political and economic reforms than through this vaccination program. This program takes up a substantial portion of his funding. Gates can lower child mortality and childhood disease rates and poverty can (and most likely will) still persist. There are plenty of countries with low mortality rates/childhood disease rates that still contain large amounts of poor. 

As for the low 30's life expectancy; it's more like mid to high 40's. Which isn't that great but again low 30's isn't mid to high 40's. 

Sub Saharan African economies are poor because of political instability/ repression and unfair economic systems. Not because of high mortality/ childhood disease rates. 

The US has a higher child mortality rate than Mexico, Venezuela, Paraguay, and Ecuador. We're far wealthier though. 

 

[wr]

the only thing poor about africa is the citizens of corrupt governments. Africa the land mass is the richest piece of real estate on earth. Now if you can't see the connection between a poor disenfranchised people and a rich corporate business climate, you got a lot to learn about the world...

 

[heavenlee777]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

heavenlee777 wrote:

. Look at the capital outlays. His US education work is no where near his vaccination program . Money talks and it shows what he truly cares about. 
I don't know how you formulated the inference that I thin  Gates wants to kill people. I specifically stated in another post that this may be the most "benevolent" form of population control. Eradicating poverty would be better served by political and economic reforms than through this vaccination program. This program takes up a substantial portion of his funding. Gates can lower child mortality and childhood disease rates and poverty can (and most likely will) still persist. There are plenty of countries with low mortality rates/childhood disease rates that still contain large amounts of poor. 

As for the low 30's life expectancy; it's more like mid to high 40's. Which isn't that great but again low 30's isn't mid to high 40's. 

Sub Saharan African economies are poor because of political instability/ repression and unfair economic systems. Not because of high mortality/ childhood disease rates. 

My bad haha, it's because earlier half the people on here were saying how Gates was using these vaccinations to kill Africans.
I couldn't tell which side you were on. 

My mistake on the life expectancy too, but 40's is still awfully low, and it seems like most African countries are on the bottom end of the life expectancy.

I agree with you that the political corruption and the previous events have put Africa in a very deep hole, but I believe making the people of Africa healthy would be a great benefit. The reason why I think his emphasis on Africa is far greater than the other issues, is because Africa is in such bad shape right now. 

What do you think is the real reason that Bill Gates is in Africa? Money reasons?

 

[goldenchild9]

The problem with people who call everything a conspiracy theory is that they lack the foresight, logic and perspective to properly analyze a situation and theorize a range of unbiased possibilities. It's the naivety and cowardice of this generation that allows so many events to fester unquestioned until its too late. Then it is that same cowardice that passes off genocides, economic collapses and Earth changing wars with a shrug. "Oh well. We can't do anything about it now. Its too late anyway...At least its not happening to us...Just the way of the world I guess."

Bill Gates is a stone cold capitalist. If you don't think he has vested interests that are in a continuance of his personal agenda beside pure philanthropy...you're an idiot, straight up.

You think Rockefeller and Carnegie, didn't have clear plans to mold society in their visions, through their billions in charitable works? You think they didn't intend to enhance the reach of their entities, which serve as apparatuses of change, even in the event of their deaths?...Please. These men are still pulling strings from the ethers, with the foundation that were laid during their lives.

Either y'all don't know Human Nature or History...but y'all need to catch up already so that we can stop operating from behind a constant deficit and make some real positive change in the world.

Who the hell is Bill Gates to go into Africa to enforce population control? Think about that. Y'all talking about conspiracy theories...like that isn't a damn conspiracy in and of itself!

The man is simply pursuing his personal interests and doing so on the biggest platform on the Earth. I doubt that he is operating out of pure benevolence and an overwhelming love for the people of these nations. He has always had a passion for chemical and biomedical engineering, equal to or greater than his love of computer engineering. Now he has the resources and the front, which allows him to pursue those interests in peace. Just like Go Daddy CEO Bob Parsons, who has a passion for hunting big game and goes to Zimbabwe to kill Elephants in the name of feeding and assisting the local population.

GoDaddy CEO Under Fire for Shooting, Killing Elephant Video

Again, if you believe those given reasons, were his true motivations for that trip and hunt...you're an idiot. This is all just history repeating.

Africa doesn't need GMO's, just like they don't need billionaires hunting elephants to stop them from trampling crops. What the continent needs is sustainable infrastructure and the ability to sell their products at fair prices and volumes on the international market. Many of these nations have the ability to become the global breadbasket, producing bountiful supplies of organic food for everyone. Ghana for instance produces thousands of pounds of organic food that isn't allowed to be fairly sold to their European neighbors because it is far better than the locally grown European produce and the EU hasn't been able to successfully monopolize the African agricultural export markets.

The Trade Trap - Ghana

British Prime Minister David Cameron delivers a speech on growth and trade to delegates at the Pan African University Business School in Lagos, Nigeria, on July 19, 2011. Photo: AP/Christopher Furlong, pool


Just one day before U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron returned to his country to address the heated controversy over the News Corporation phone-hacking scandal, he was in Nigeria delivering a speech on the future of the African continent.

“Tell me this,

 

[wr]

great post goldenchil9. i wish people would stop with this attitude of welfare to africa and let africa stand up on it's own 2 feet.

 

[hankmoody]

Would it be more difficult for a private organization to institute political and economic reforms or changes in healthcare? I would say the former.

Get people healthier---> allowing education reform to succeed---> tackling political and economic reform with an empowered public

Is that possible? I have no background in this and am just thinking out loud.


Studies on effects of malaria on cognitive abilities :
http://papers.ssrn.com/so....cfm?abstract_id=1679164
http://www.malariajournal.com/content/9/1/366edit: So many assumptions, so little evidence. The white man is the devil is the only citation necessary...

 

[dwyanewadeog]

The US has a higher child mortality rate than Mexico, Venezuela, Paraguay, and Ecuador. We're far wealthier though. 

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nah man. not even close to being true.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Infant mortality rate from 2005-2010[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]United States: 7 deaths per 1000 live births[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mexico: 21.62 [/font]deaths per 1000 live births

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Venezuela: 18.5 [/font]deaths per 1000 live births

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Paraguay: 35.48 [/font]deaths per 1000 live births

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ecuador: 26.41 [/font]deaths per 1000 live births

 

[joe camel smooth]

guys it's one thing to be open to the possibility that some of this is true

it's another to make wild claims like "it's well known bill gates is a eugenicist like his father"

or to even act like there is a scrap of evidence to support your theories

i agree it's our responsibility (everyone's not nt's

) to be vigilant and make sure those in power do not abuse or misuse it

so we should monitor what organizations like the bill and melinda gates foundation do......but you just can't claim certain things to be factual without proof.

 

[heavenlee777]

goldenchild9 wrote:

---

We know this, we've stated that Africa has a lot of great resources and land and has great potential.
We've also stated that countries are now fleeting to go to Africa to take advantage. We already know this. 

But how does this solve the health issues?

The education issues? How Africa is decades behind in technology?

In your response you stated only 2 countries in the whole continent of Africa. 

What about South Sudan? Do they not need any help? Angola? Ethiopia? Liberia? Sierra Leone?

Also, what you wrote gives no insight about the political corruption in the African countries. 

As stated earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if Bill Gates was doing this for money reasons. 

But the point is, is that he is helping this continent greatly with the money he is putting into it.

Also, he isn't giving the money directly to the corrupt leaders like other nations are doing.

And what he is doing isn't necessarily bad, it's normal what he is doing.

When an employer hires an employee, what do they look for? Potential.

When a mentor looks for an apprentice, what do they look for? Potential.

When you look for a girlfriend or a friend, what do you look for? A potential relationship.

Let's look at the past too, South Korea and China were helped out by the US (a rich man).

Look where they are now. 

My point is that he is putting time and effort into Africa because he knows the potential they have.

Some African countries can stand on their own two feet, but other countries are in dire need of help.

So why is it bad if Bill Gates helps them?

 

[wr]

^MMMMM... off the top of my head, probably the track record of what happens when white business men go and invest in africa what has happened tiem and time again.

I just think white people should distance themselves from this political stance that it is their manifest destiny to bring economic to the rest of the world. It's rareley ever been positive.

 

[heavenlee777]

But have any white businessmen ever gone the distance that Bill Gates has gone?
Trying to vaccinate every child in the continent, helping them out with technology and agriculture?

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by heavenlee777

But have any white businessmen ever gone the distance that Bill Gates has gone?
Trying to vaccinate every child in the continent, helping them out with technology and agriculture?

that's the same promise every other group of white people have made. 
What about the promises all the oil companies, jewelry companies, land resource companies that make billions every single quarter off africa have made and never have fallen through on?

How can you go somewhere, make billions of dollars, and not do so much as build a functioning school or hospital their?

It's ok to make money in the darkland, and spend and create prosperity in the white land. yet fool the world as to thinking the people in the darkland have a problem because they can not lead themselves when it is the ecomic policy of every other country in the world to keep them at a subservient status

 

[james earl zones]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread, but I want to say its been a great read and I've learned plenty in the last couple pages. I love seeing actual discussion in threads like this and not the usual childish debates and general idiocy many of the posters here immediately utilize.

And I had no idea Bill's father was a eugenicist.

 

[boys noize]

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

I guess we're just viewing this from two different lenses. 
I see it as Bill Gates foundation bringing modern technology and medicine to the more impoverished nations in Africa. I don't have a strong opinion on GMO's but I think they're an effective short-term solution. GMO's strain the ecosystem so it is not sustainable. I do think that more natural ways of farming are better in the long run. I agree with you on your point on fair trade and impartial cooperation. I just don't see the "fronts" or "neo-imperialism." I think Africa has every reason to be skeptical and cautious due to the history but I think that in this case, with the Bill Gates foundations work, it's just pure cynicism. The claim that vaccinations caused HIV/AIDS is ludicrous.

 

[hankmoody]

How is BG Sr. a eugenicist and, if he is, what makes his views wrong?

 

[dimsum9]

Originally Posted by south sole

Over Population is a myth propagated to keep people of color from reproducing in places like Africa so imperial forces can have land easily accessible to seize and exploit natural resources. My opinion. 

lol..  wait til 2050 when countries are having overpopulation issues. 

 

[wr]

if overpopulation is such a big issue, i think space exploration and finding somewhere else to spread out too would be a better cause than focusing on eliminating people.

 

[boys noize]

Originally Posted by Wr

if overpopulation is such a big issue, i think space exploration and finding somewhere else to spread out too would be a better cause than focusing on eliminating people.

Space exploration?
Now I know this isn't real life.

No one is talking about eliminating people but the people claiming vaccinations are going to kill Africans. The ways to prevent overpopulation are sex education and modern health care (contraceptives and birth control.)

 

[heavenlee777]

Originally Posted by James Earl Zones

I have nothing to contribute to this thread, but I want to say its been a great read and I've learned plenty in the last couple pages. I love seeing actual discussion in threads like this and not the usual childish debates and general idiocy many of the posters here immediately utilize.

And I had no idea Bill's father was a eugenicist.

Yeah, this is a great thread. A lot of good points are being brought up and most of the people are rationally debating. 
But do you guys remember the last thread that was about this topic

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Originally Posted by Wr

if overpopulation is such a big issue, i think space exploration and finding somewhere else to spread out too would be a better cause than focusing on eliminating people.

Space exploration?
Now I know this isn't real life.

No one is talking about eliminating people but the people claiming vaccinations are going to kill Africans. The ways to prevent overpopulation are sex education and modern health care (contraceptives and birth control.)

what are you, the town crier? just because you don't agree with something you gotta point and draw attention to it like nelson from the simpsons. Why don't you go point and  laugh at nasa and other scientific organizations that spend billions of tax dollars researching this very thing. 

 

[goldenchild9]

Originally Posted by heavenlee777

goldenchild9 wrote:

---

We know this, we've stated that Africa has a lot of great resources and land and has great potential.
We've also stated that countries are now fleeting to go to Africa to take advantage. We already know this.�

But how does this solve the health issues?

The education issues? How Africa is decades behind in technology?

In your�response�you stated only 2 countries in the whole continent of Africa.�

What about South Sudan? Do they not need any help? Angola? Ethiopia? Liberia? Sierra Leone?

Also, what you wrote gives no insight about the political corruption in the African countries.�

As stated earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if Bill Gates was doing this for money reasons.�

But the point is, is that he is helping this continent greatly with the money he is putting into it.

Also, he isn't giving the money directly to the corrupt leaders like other nations are doing.

And what he is doing isn't necessarily bad, it's normal what he is doing.

When an employer hires an employee, what do they look for? Potential.

When a mentor looks for an apprentice, what do they look for? Potential.

When you look for a girlfriend or a friend, what do you look for? A potential relationship.

Let's look at the past too, South Korea and China were helped out by the US (a rich man).

Look where they are now.�

My point is that he is putting time and effort into Africa because he knows the potential they have.

Some African countries can stand on their own two feet, but other countries are in dire need of help.

So why is it bad if Bill Gates helps them?


Are you just throwing out names of nations, or is there some implied argument that I'm missing?

South Sudan is the newest nation in the world, less that two weeks old, of course they need "help". But not in the form of forced vaccinations and GMO's. Again, all they need is impartial cooperation and FAIR trade. They really needed help when the Nubian population was being slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands by foreign financed genocidal maniacs...but no one stepped up to help then, did they? The people of Sudan fought that fight for independence with their own blood and sweat....now watch all of these benevolent parties pop up promising goodwill in exchange for natural resources.

South Sudan - Independence Day

As for Liberia..Bill Gates can take some lessons in transparency, sincerity and efficiency from another Billionaire American Capitalist...







Ethiopia...this is the kind of change that they need and have been receiving, thanks to people who really care the well being and self determination of their population...

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/the-market-maker-full-episode/5293/http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/the-market-maker-full-episode/5293/VIDEO: WIDE ANGLE travels to East Africa to tell the dramatic story of an Ethiopian economist on a mission. Seeking a market-based solution to ending hunger in her famine-plagued country, she creates Ethiopia’s first commodities exchange. What she didn’t count on was a world financial crisis getting in the way.

[h2]Ethiopia coffee exports hit record high[/h2]
Ethiopia earned a record $841.6 million from the export of nearly 200,000 tonnes of coffee in 2010/2011, trade data showed on Wednesday, thanks to lower output from traditional giants Colombia and Brazil and higher demand from India and China.

Africa's biggest coffee producer intends to boost its agricultural output by 2015, raising coffee to 700,000 tonnes from 300,000 tonnes, under a five-year economic development plan launched last year.

High global commodity prices and the introduction in 2008 of a commodity exchange market, which promoted transparent trading instead of a murky auction system, helped lift coffee production to 196,118 tonnes in the 2010/2011 fiscal year, exporters said.

Trade data from the Ethiopian Coffee Exporters Association said the revenue figure represented a 59 percent rise compared to revenue earned in 2009/2010 and 124 percent from 2008/2009.

"The price has doubled over the year and farmers have reaped their fruit. Everone was encouraged to bring coffee to the local market," said Hailu Gebrehiwot, an exporter and former head of the Ethiopian Coffee Exporters Association.

Prices for Ethiopia's specialty Sidamo beans reached 1,500 Ethiopian birr ($8 for 17-kilograms in 2010/2011, up from 600 birr last year, Hailu added.

The Ethiopian Commodity Exchange, which trades coffee, maize, sesame and white pea beans through an open outcry system, has said it was looking to introduce future and forward trading in a country where hoarding is common among traders wary of price volatility.

Coffee traders in Ethiopia have repeatedly held on to their stocks, reluctant to sell through the new exchange saying prices were too low, sparking authorities to warn of seizures.

The government seized 17,000 tonnes of the crop in 2009 and revoked the licences of six exporters it accused of hoarding their stocks and waiting for prices to rise.

"With the Ethiopian Commodity Exchange (ECX), the flow of coffee trading is streamlined - it means there's less contraband business going on," Hailu told Reuters.

Ethiopia prides itself as the birthplace of coffee. Some 15 million smallholder farmers grow the crop, mostly in the forested highlands in the huge country's west and southwest.

The Horn of Africa nation projects it will earn $3 billion in export revenue for 2010/11 (July-June) after a resurgence of coffee sales and diversification into new commodities earned $2 billion in the previous year. ($1 = 17.044 Ethiopian Birrs)


Source: http://af.reuters.com/


Look at what those two highly intelligent entrepreneurs, who are personally leveraged to the continent are doing, in contrast with the Gates Foundation's policy of forced bio-engineered charity...and you tell me who is really interested in the long term well-being of Africans.

 

[boys noize]

Originally Posted by Wr

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Originally Posted by Wr

if overpopulation is such a big issue, i think space exploration and finding somewhere else to spread out too would be a better cause than focusing on eliminating people.

Space exploration?
Now I know this isn't real life.

No one is talking about eliminating people but the people claiming vaccinations are going to kill Africans. The ways to prevent overpopulation are sex education and modern health care (contraceptives and birth control.)

what are you, the town crier? just because you don't agree with something you gotta point and draw attention to it like nelson from the simpsons. Why don't you go point and  laugh at nasa and other scientific organizations that spend billions of tax dollars researching this very thing. 

It's not that I don't agree with space exploration, I just think that your idea to locate and colonize a habitable planet in reaction to overpopulation is the stuff of Hollywood movies. Especially because overpopulation has very real and immediate consequences.

 

[All Ready]

overpopulation is hilarious, especially since they are still making golf courses which is the biggest waste of land of all time

yeah, we're overpopulated, sure

 

[heavenlee777]

goldenchild9 wrote:

---

I understand where you are getting at with fair-trade.
My argument was that you keep bringing up countries that are successful, and that shows that African countries are able to thrive on their own, but those couple countries you bring up doesn't represent all the countries in Africa. Yeah, a few countries are able to thrive, but what about the other countries that are going though much more hardships than the one's you mentioned. Those countries need help. 

Fair trade will help the countries, but with Bill Gates the help can come faster and more efficiently.

And what does Bill Gates have to do with the conflict in Sudan? Just in case you don't know, Bill Gates has been helping Africa since the 90's. 

Also, name the reports where it says Bill Gates is receiving natural resources in exchange for charity?

You say Bill Gates can take some lessons in transparency, sincerity, and efficiency? 

How has he not?

He gave South Sudan $5 Million Dollars (http://www.sudantribune.c...ndation-donates-5m,38709 ), and the only person who reported this was the Mayor. 

Sincerity? He's given so much time and effort on issues all over the world. He is helping make the issues in Africa known all across the world. 

Efficiency? He's convinced Billionaires to donate their money to charity, and he's been philanthropist for many years now helping out undeveloped countries since the early 90's. 

Like I know previous events by white businessmen have left a horrible impact.

But how is he harming these people? 

Giving them vaccinations and helping them out with technology issues will help them in the long run.

Doing this also puts less pressure on the leaders of the countries, because they can focus on other issues. 

Let's say these countries get fair trade, without vaccinations their people will still be dying of diseases.

Without the technological help, their country will still be behind, and without the help it will take them longer to catch up. 

And most likely these countries with the fair trade won't be able to get all the people vaccinated for a long time because of the other issues the country is facing.  

I also read your first post in this thread again.

Can you give me the evidence you have of Bill Gates being the "sinister brilliance lurking behind that boyish facade"?

This thread has sort of changed topics, but do you also still think that giving these people vaccinations is bad?

 

[joe camel smooth]

Originally Posted by All Ready

overpopulation is hilarious, especially since they are still making golf courses which is the biggest waste of land of all time

yeah, we're overpopulated, sure

are you joking? we don't have the resources or the space for even our current population to live and consume at a level close to what citizens of "1st world nations" currently do.
not even close.

and the golf course arguments you made is ridiculous. that's like me saying "there's no recession, i spent $10,000 on bottle service last night"