Detroit Pistons @ PHX SUNS Sunday 12:30 NBA on ESPN on ABC on HDTV

[ballinboykz]

Originally Posted by illmaticsoulchild

@ people forgetting how good the Pistons are. Before or after the trade, the Pistons would have won. Maybe not a blowout, but a W is a W.

And Sheed's post game is almost as impressive as his range from beyond the arc. If dude didn't have the Robert Horry mentality in the regular season he'd killing teams on the regular.

Nobody forgot. Everybody just joined the Boston Celtics bandwagon. I have said it all year long. Detroit is coming out of the East.

 

[ripfan816]

I sure am glad I saw this game today, Pistons laid down a serious beating.

 

[prime suspects 36]

 

[nbadotcom]

Although I can't stand Rashweed Wallace I've always said that The Pistons are a great team. They showed it in this game.
Detroit is definately much better than Boston's collection of overrated, overhyped "superstars"

This game proved every bad thought I had about the Marion trade.

Our shooting got worse -
Shaq takes away the open looks that the Suns perimeter guys get in the fast breaking, motion offense. He prevents the pick & roll between Steve and Amarefrom being successful because he takes up too much space inside. He also makes it impossible for Steve to penetrate and dish.
We have shot under 43% in each of the last two games. Not having Marion for easy dunks & putbacks also hurts the FG%

Our team defense got worse -
There's no way in hell you can improve your team defense by trading your best defender. It just can't happen. Despite everything that the Sunsmanagement wants you to believe, Shaq makes it more difficult for the Suns to recover on defense. He can't cover quick guys when other teams do a pick& roll. He can't really even cover quick guys when they go in the lane. He's too slow at this point in his career to provide much help defense fromthe weak side. He also makes Amare a worse defender (if that's possible)...Amare was very good at getting blocks from the weak side, but since Shaq isclogging up the lane he isn't able to get over there to provide the help defense.
Losing Marion also forces Nash to have to cover every PG. Matrix could cover guys like Tony Parker and we were able to hide Nash on worse offensive playerslike Bruce Bowen.

The fast break is gone -
With Shaq in the lineup it's impossible to fast break. He can't even get down the court quickly enough to be a finisher. He is horrible at throwing anoutlet pass.
With Shaq out of the lineup we're missing the most important piece to our fast break offense. Matrix was amazing at getting a key rebound or block, andeither sprinting down the court to get an ally oop or easy pass for a bucket. We don't have the finisher now so the fast break goes like this...Stevedribbles down the court, looks for someone to pass to...then dribbles back out to the three point line to get set in a halfcourt offense that we don'thave.

I wonder what all these people that think that this was a great trade are thinking tonight.
We're going to be one-and-done in the playoffs with this team. It's so awful as a fan to see what the brainless tag team of $arver and Kerr has done toa team that was one of the best in the NBA. In case anyone forgot, we had the best record in the West at the time of this trade.



A couple of other comments:
The amount of opposing fans I've seen in the building the last three games is sickening. How can you be a ticket holder and sell your seats to opposingfans? An fan of an opposing team shouldn't be able to get a ticket to a big game.

And finally -

I'm so honored that so many people are thinking so much about me. It's like you guys watch the Suns games and you have me on your minds.

Out of all posts in this topic there are 37 of them that either mention my screen name or make some reference to me. That's pathetic. Don't you guyswatch basketball to actually pay attention to the game, not what some dude on the internet is thinking or saying?

 

[N41D]

Zo, I really don't like Phoenix's offense right now... I know it's going to take some time to get used to having the big man in the middle, but itjust looks like he clogs EVERYTHING up... He can't get more than 5-8 feet from the basket and be effective, but if he's that close to the rim, the pickand roll is all but shot to hell... It just looks really out of sync, and I'm just not sure how they fix it... Their personnel isn't built for aslow-down, half court style over 48 minutes.

 

[kb8sandiego]

^
I definitely agree with Nowitness.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

Our team defense got worse -
There's no way in hell you can improve your team defense by trading your best defender. It just can't happen. Despite everything that the Suns management wants you to believe, Shaq makes it more difficult for the Suns to recover on defense. He can't cover quick guys when other teams do a pick & roll. He can't really even cover quick guys when they go in the lane. He's too slow at this point in his career to provide much help defense from the weak side. He also makes Amare a worse defender (if that's possible)...Amare was very good at getting blocks from the weak side, but since Shaq is clogging up the lane he isn't able to get over there to provide the help defense.
Losing Marion also forces Nash to have to cover every PG. Matrix could cover guys like Tony Parker and we were able to hide Nash on worse offensive players like Bruce Bowen.



yup.... the perimeter D is much worse now....... even though Shaq might open things up for Stoudemire a bit more, they did become worse defensively with Mariongone, I also personally believe that Raja Bell is an overrated defender....

 

[ballinboykz]

Im tellin ya, its D'Antoni. He is not a good coach for the players he has. When Marion was there, he was a good coach. But now that they have Shaq there,his whole scheme has to change. If not, the Suns will not be successful as they were in previous years.

 

[dako akong otin]

enough with the zo bashing and back to the game

Anyway, Pistons proved that they are the team to beat in the East. You don't hear alot about them because they're not flashy, don't have big namesuperstars, just a bunch of hardworking players. Yeah, i admit with all the Boston hype

, I did forget about the Pistons for awhile

But somehow, its always the non-flashy teams that come out on top likeDetroit and.. .god forbid.. San Antonio

 

[shuges]

Everything MatrixStat said is pretty much on-point.

While I still think it's too early to predict what will happen in the post-season, the Suns certainly have some work to do.

And I hope all the people who claimed Marion is "over-rated" or "a product of the Suns' system" finally realize just how big a part heplayed on this team.

Shaq not looking good right now. I predict a huge bounce back game for Phx though. But if they can't beat Memphis....

 

[slow motion g35]

Kwammmmaaaay Brown about to put some hurt on the diesel...lol Marion, Stat and Nash were the perfect fit, take on of those guys out say Nash for Kidd and youstill wouldn't get the same chemistry they had. May be close but not the same. Likewise take Marion out for the Diesel, who brings nothing to the table, nodefense or offense, except for his 7'1" 300lb frame.

Yes Matrix is a Phx Suns product. Or how do you explain this? even KWAAAAmmmmaayy Brown can give you better numbers than that in 40mins

seriously, does he have any competition on the team?

[table][tr][td]STARTERS[/td] [td]MIN[/td] [td]FGM-A[/td] [td]3PM-A[/td] [td]FTM-A[/td] [td]OREB[/td] [td]DREB[/td] [td]REB[/td] [td]AST[/td] [td]STL[/td] [td]BLK[/td] [td]TO[/td] [td]PF[/td] [td]PTS[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Dorell Wright, SF[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]1-3[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]6[/td] [td]6[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Shawn Marion, PF[/td] [td]40[/td] [td]2-5[/td] [td]0-1[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]6[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Mark Blount, C[/td] [td]30[/td] [td]6-11[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]2-2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]14[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Dwyane Wade, SG[/td] [td]44[/td] [td]11-23[/td] [td]2-5[/td] [td]9-10[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]33[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Jason Williams, PG[/td] [td]33[/td] [td]2-11[/td] [td]1-6[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]BENCH[/td] [td]MIN[/td] [td]FGM-A[/td] [td]3PM-A[/td] [td]FTM-A[/td] [td]OREB[/td] [td]DREB[/td] [td]REB[/td] [td]AST[/td] [td]STL[/td] [td]BLK[/td] [td]TO[/td] [td]PF[/td] [td]PTS[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Marcus Banks, PG[/td] [td]25[/td] [td]6-9[/td] [td]3-5[/td] [td]2-2[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]17[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Ricky Davis, SF[/td] [td]34[/td] [td]5-11[/td] [td]1-3[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]11[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Udonis Haslem, PF[/td] [td]30[/td] [td]4-9[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]9[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Alexander Johnson, PF[/td] [td]6[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]2-2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Earl Barron, C[/td] [td]DNP COACH'S DECISION[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Chris Quinn, PG[/td] [td]DNP COACH'S DECISION[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Daequan Cook, SG[/td] [td]DNP COACH'S DECISION[/td] [/tr][/table]

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

Yes Matrix is a Phx Suns product. Or how do you explain this? even KWAAAAmmmmaayy Brown can give you better numbers than that in 40mins


then how do you explain him being a 20-10 all star without Nash & D'Antoni?

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Shawn Marion, PF 40 2-5 0-1 0-0 3 3 6 4 5 0 5 4 4

Of course you would pick the ONE off game he's had since being there.

How about the game before? 18 and 10 with 2 blocks?

Or the one before that? 23 and seven with 4 steals?

Or the game before THAT? 23 and 18?

Come on man.... Fall back with that "system" talk.

 

[slow motion g35]

Originally Posted by BullsRepeat3Peat

Yes Matrix is a Phx Suns product. Or how do you explain this? even KWAAAAmmmmaayy Brown can give you better numbers than that in 40mins

then how do you explain him being a 20-10 all star without Nash & D'Antoni?


who else was going to score for the Suns?

 

[slow motion g35]

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Shawn Marion, PF 40 2-5 0-1 0-0 3 3 6 4 5 0 5 4 4

Of course you would pick the ONE off game he's had since being there.

How about the game before? 18 and 10 with 2 blocks?

Or the one before that? 23 and seven with 4 steals?

Or the game before THAT? 23 and 18?

Come on man.... Fall back with that "system" talk.

i'm not trying to pick his one bad game, if you're a "good player" you're almost never ever suppose to have nights like that....thoseare Kwame stats...

 

[nbadotcom]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Zo, I really don't like Phoenix's offense right now... I know it's going to take some time to get used to having the big man in the middle, but it just looks like he clogs EVERYTHING up... He can't get more than 5-8 feet from the basket and be effective, but if he's that close to the rim, the pick and roll is all but shot to hell... It just looks really out of sync, and I'm just not sure how they fix it... Their personnel isn't built for a slow-down, half court style over 48 minutes.

I agree completely. And I said that after the first game against the Fakers.
Steve looks like he's not quite sure what to do out there. The thing that the Suns did so effectively was having everyone in the right place - now, evenwhen Shaq's fat lazy $%+ is on the bench. It's like we know we can't run with him on the floor, so we're slowing it down with him out of thelineup to get the team used to playing that style of ball, even though the team doesn't have the personnel to play that style of ball.
Getting Shaq is like sticking a round peg into a square hole. It just won't fit no matter how hard you try. We're done. Stick a fork in us.

 

[wstcoastgotti]

The fast break is gone -
With Shaq in the lineup it's impossible to fast break. He can't even get down the court quickly enough to be a finisher. He is horrible at throwing an outlet pass.
With Shaq out of the lineup we're missing the most important piece to our fast break offense. Matrix was amazing at getting a key rebound or block, and either sprinting down the court to get an ally oop or easy pass for a bucket. We don't have the finisher now so the fast break goes like this...Steve dribbles down the court, looks for someone to pass to...then dribbles back out to the three point line to get set in a halfcourt offense that we don't have.
This is on point 110 percent

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Shawn Marion, PF 40 2-5 0-1 0-0 3 3 6 4 5 0 5 4 4

Of course you would pick the ONE off game he's had since being there.

How about the game before? 18 and 10 with 2 blocks?

Or the one before that? 23 and seven with 4 steals?

Or the game before THAT? 23 and 18?

Come on man.... Fall back with that "system" talk.

i'm not trying to pick his one bad game, if you're a "good player" you're almost never ever suppose to have nights like that....those are Kwame stats...

[table][tr][td]Name[/td] [td][/td] [td]Min[/td] [td]FG[/td] [td]3Pt[/td] [td]FT[/td] [td][/td] [td]Off[/td] [td]Reb[/td] [td]Ast[/td] [td]TO[/td] [td]Stl[/td] [td]BS[/td] [td]BA[/td] [td]PF[/td] [td]Pts [/td] [/tr][tr][td] K. Bryant[/td] [td]G[/td] [td]40:23[/td] [td]3-13[/td] [td]0-2[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]+20[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]7[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]6 [/td] [/tr][/table]

 

[slow motion g35]

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

i'm not trying to pick his one bad game, if you're a "good player" you're almost never ever suppose to have nights like that....those are Kwame stats...

[table][tr][td]Name[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]Min[/td] [td]FG[/td] [td]3Pt[/td] [td]FT[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]Off[/td] [td]Reb[/td] [td]Ast[/td] [td]TO[/td] [td]Stl[/td] [td]BS[/td] [td]BA[/td] [td]PF[/td] [td]Pts[/td] [/tr][tr][td]K. Bryant[/td] [td]G[/td] [td]40:23[/td] [td]3-13[/td] [td]0-2[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]+20[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]7[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]6[/td] [/tr][/table]

cus his teams winning and he didn't have to play....did you even watch the game? you can add the injuries too

 

[true 3 blue]

^

he set himself up with that one.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

Originally Posted by BullsRepeat3Peat

Yes Matrix is a Phx Suns product. Or how do you explain this? even KWAAAAmmmmaayy Brown can give you better numbers than that in 40mins

then how do you explain him being a 20-10 all star without Nash & D'Antoni?

who else was going to score for the Suns?

well Marbury was averaging 22 ppg, Marion 21, Amare 13 ppg, & Penny 10 ppg....

but anyways what makes you think he's overrated? Just based off of this game? Because I can name you legends who have had bad games.... Reggie Millerfor one (a 5 point game in the 2003 playoffs against the Celtics with zero FG's).....

Or is it the fact that he can't create his own shot like a Kobe type SG?..... There is more to the game than just scoring and stats... Marion held thatteam together and was easily their best defensive player and one of the better defenders in the league

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

i'm not trying to pick his one bad game, if you're a "good player" you're almost never ever suppose to have nights like that....those are Kwame stats...

[table][tr][td]Name[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]Min[/td] [td]FG[/td] [td]3Pt[/td] [td]FT[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]Off[/td] [td]Reb[/td] [td]Ast[/td] [td]TO[/td] [td]Stl[/td] [td]BS[/td] [td]BA[/td] [td]PF[/td] [td]Pts[/td] [/tr][tr][td]K. Bryant[/td] [td]G[/td] [td]40:23[/td] [td]3-13[/td] [td]0-2[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]+20[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]7[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]6[/td] [/tr][/table]

cus his teams winning and he didn't have to play....did you even watch the game?

I live in NYC. So yeah, I saw that game. As a matter of fact, that was Pau's debut. And it was a close game practically til the end.

Regardless, I don't know how you could say he "didn't have to play" when he logged 40 minutes. According to YOUR logic, Dirty Snake had a badgame. 3 - 13 and SEVEN to's.

Stop trying to switch %#*! up to win your #%+*+#++ argument.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

i'm not trying to pick his one bad game, if you're a "good player" you're almost never ever suppose to have nights like that....those are Kwame stats...

[table][tr][td]Name[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]Min[/td] [td]FG[/td] [td]3Pt[/td] [td]FT[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]Off[/td] [td]Reb[/td] [td]Ast[/td] [td]TO[/td] [td]Stl[/td] [td]BS[/td] [td]BA[/td] [td]PF[/td] [td]Pts[/td] [/tr][tr][td]K. Bryant[/td] [td]G[/td] [td]40:23[/td] [td]3-13[/td] [td]0-2[/td] [td]0-0[/td] [td]+20[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]7[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]6[/td] [/tr][/table]

cus his teams winning and he didn't have to play....did you even watch the game? you can add the injuries too


I'm not trying to bash Kobe but what do you mean he didn't have to play? According to that statline he played 40 minutes

 

[true 3 blue]

cus his teams winning and he didn't have to play....did you even watch the game? you can add the injuries too
oh please, he had a BAD game. how often does Kobe have more TOs than points? he was looking like a D League'r out there

 

[chitown4eva]

Now we get to see how "great" Steve Nash is.