Dirk's defense is NOT that BAD...(Fixed for Americans)

21,225
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Joined Aug 2, 2006
I've noticed that alot of niketalkers still use the _irk nickname and I began to ponder...

How bad of a defensive player is Dirk really?



I mean honestly Nters have been known to exaggerate how good or bad things are. From what I have seen of Dirk I have found him to be pretty mediocre I neverthought of him as a game changer but I also never thought of him as giant liability. From what I have watched his post defence is not bad, he doesn'treally get overpowered any more but he does seem to have some problems with quick PF's who can handle the ball a little bit.


But still it's worth a shot...


Would you agree that in today's zone defense heavy NBA having a good defensive coach and system has is more important then paying for one "shutdowndefender". In todays NBA the shutdown defender is a dying if not dead breed for good reason too, leaving any nba superstar on an Island with anyone isnever a good idea.

The perfect example of this is people thinking that Paul Peirce "shutdown" Kobe in the finals when this is not the case. They didn't leave Paulon an island because that would be suicide. If you watch the Celtics or any Tom Thibodeau team shutting down a star involves the whole team and Ray Allen,Rondo, and KG deserve as much credit as Paul for the job on Kobe.




Gunna relayed something similar when he was talking about the deference between Nnamdi Asomough and Asante Samuel. Having Nnamdi Asomough out their on anisland guarding one guy is not as helpful to your team as Asante who is involved on every play.

The Celtics defenses works the same way, rather than having a shutdown defender, they have players who have enough basket ball smarts to execute the system.Ray Allen, Paul Peirce, Big Baby, Eddie House, and Kendrick Perkins were never considered shutdown defenders. untill they got in that system in fact some ofthem were considered bad defenders.


Ok back to Dirk and is He really that bad question.

The 2005-2006 Dallas Mavericks 11th in the league in Defensive Rating (the amount of points against per 100 possesions) so I think it safe to say that TheAvery Johnson Mavs were a good defensive team.

Now If we look a little closer a look at the individual defensive rating for each player.

[table][tr][td]DeSagana Diop[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]100[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Dirk Nowitzki[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]103[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Erick Dampier[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]103[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Josh Howard[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]105[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Devin Harris[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]106[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Marquis Daniels[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]107[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Jerry Stackhouse[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]108[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Jason Terry[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]108[/td] [/tr][/table]

So Dirk Nowitski allowed the fewest points per 100 possessions on the 11th best defensive team in the league. If he really was that bad of a defensive playershould he allow more points than his teammates who all play in the same defensive system? The one thing that the stats doesn't show is that Dirk isn'ta particularly good help defender but he is a good defensive rebounder he was 11th in the league in defensive rebounding percentage.


Ok another measurement we can take is how well other power forwards and centers perform against the Mavs.

[table][tr][td][/td] [/tr][tr][td]
[/td] [td]
[size=-1]Point Guard[/size]
[/td] [td]
[size=-1]Shooting Guard[/size]
[/td] [td]
[size=-1]Small Forward[/size]
[/td] [td]
[size=-1]Power Forward[/size]
[/td] [td]
[size=-1]Center[/size]
[/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Team[/size][/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Orlando[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+2.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]11.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]14.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-3.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+2.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]14.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+2.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]25.8[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+8.8[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Dallas[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.8[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-0.8[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+1.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]22.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+7.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+0.1[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Houston[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.6[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+2.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.6[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+3.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]21.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+3.1[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Cleveland[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]12.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+5.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]23.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]12.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+11.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]19.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+4.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]14.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+2.8[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Boston[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]19.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]14.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+5.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]11.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+5.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]19.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+6.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]19.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+3.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.0[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Utah[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+0.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-0.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.6[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+2.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]20.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+4.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]19.6[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.8[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+1.8[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Charlotte[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]14.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+1.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]14.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-1.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-0.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-1.2[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] New Orleans[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]27.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+12.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.6[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+2.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]14.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.8[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Portland[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-0.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]20.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+5.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+1.6[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]19.8[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+3.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.6[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-0.7[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] L.A. Lakers[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-3.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]23.9[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]13.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+10.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+0.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.1[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+1.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]23.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+6.3[/size][/td] [/tr][tr][td][size=-1] Philadelphia[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]20.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+3.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]12.8[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]14.8[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-2.0[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]18.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]12.7[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]+5.5[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]15.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.8[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-1.4[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]16.3[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]17.2[/size][/td] [td][size=-1]-0.9[/size][/td] [/tr][/table]

This is a list of Power forwards PER vs the Mavs. They are second best in the league in terms of hindering the other Power Forwards Performance (82games.com)Dirk must have something to do with this....right?



I would love toe hear what Mavs fans think of my anlysis, I'm not going to pretend like I have watched Dirk more than you guys but can you think ofanything that skew these stats.
 
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Joined Sep 16, 2004
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by yungmatt

@defence
http://dictionary.canadas....com/definition/defence/


I am Canadian, their is a difference between the Canadian dictionary and American like the spelling of Colour or DEFENCE.
If that boggles your mind so much that you can't get through rest of it then...I question the quality of American schools.


Even though I read it, I couldnt give 2 flying $%%#+ about what you just said.

Carry on...
 
17,282
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Joined May 30, 2006
He's not as bad as he was under Nellie back in the day... Avery really had him putting in a ton of work while he was here and that was Avery's biggestpet project during his tenure...

He's still not a good defender, but he's not nearly as bad as he was 5 or 6 years ago... He's not any worse than Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire or thevast majority of NBA players that couldn't care about defense... People harp on it like Dirk is out there sitting on his hands defensively doing anythingdifferent than 90% of the league, but it's just not the case...
 
20,674
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Joined Feb 10, 2003
I watch the Mavs a lot, I'm an obsessive Maverick fan. Dirk isn't as a bad a defender as people make it out to be BUT he ain't good at it or closeto being good at it.
 
60,080
12,574
Joined Feb 6, 2007
Osh, I'm all for goin back and forth and arguin points, you know that, but all those damn graphs do is piss me off.



I could make a bar graph of ridiculous ratings that make Smush Parker the second coming of Chris Paul. Quit usin them things.
 
29,535
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Joined Apr 30, 2004
'Their' is a difference in the Canadian dictionary and the American dictionary?

'Their'?



I keed.

But seriously, _irk is not a good defender in any sense of the word.
 
83,989
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Joined May 31, 2004
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by yungmatt

@defence
http://dictionary.canadas....com/definition/defence/


I am Canadian, their is a difference between the Canadian dictionary and American like the spelling of Colour or DEFENCE.
If that boggles your mind so much that you can't get through rest of it then...I question the quality of American schools.

what about their and there?



point taken though. didn't know you were canadian
 
T

trelvis tha thrilla

Guest
Originally Posted by SneakerPro

I watch the Mavs a lot, I'm an obsessive Maverick fan. Dirk isn't as a bad a defender as people make it out to be BUT he ain't good at it or close to being good at it.
Co-sign
 
60,080
12,574
Joined Feb 6, 2007
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by yungmatt

@defence
http://dictionary.canadas....com/definition/defence/


I am Canadian, their is a difference between the Canadian dictionary and American like the spelling of Colour or DEFENCE.
If that boggles your mind so much that you can't get through rest of it then...I question the quality of American schools.

what about their and there?



point taken though. didn't know you were canadian

You must have never seen dude defend Steve Nash.
That's when Ifigured it out.
 
21,225
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Joined Aug 2, 2006
Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by yungmatt

@defence
http://dictionary.canadas....com/definition/defence/


I am Canadian, their is a difference between the Canadian dictionary and American like the spelling of Colour or DEFENCE.
If that boggles your mind so much that you can't get through rest of it then...I question the quality of American schools.

what about their and there?



point taken though. didn't know you were Canadian

You must have never seen dude defend Steve Nash.
That's when I figured it out.
Being I wouldn't say being Canadian has anything to do with me defending Steve Nash you haven't seen casual white Canadian basketball fansfrom west coast Canada, dude is god out there.

But on the east coast, Toronto, Ottawa? Nobody is loving him like that.
 
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im from vancity bc and ya nash gets more love then jesus, straight up. Maybe because he is? ?????


but more importantly he's the great white hope. He did what so many of us unathletic white men dreamed


I love him.
 
3,079
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Joined Jul 1, 2008
every nba player have some sort of weakness, its not like a team would say "i don't like dirk coz he's a bad defensive player", anyway thanksfor your analysis.
 
8,528
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Joined Feb 28, 2007
Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by yungmatt

@defence
http://dictionary.canadas....com/definition/defence/


I am Canadian, their is a difference between the Canadian dictionary and American like the spelling of Colour or DEFENCE.
If that boggles your mind so much that you can't get through rest of it then...I question the quality of American schools.

what about their and there?



point taken though. didn't know you were canadian

You must have never seen dude defend Steve Nash.
That's when I figured it out.
same... he was the only non-Suns fan saying Nash deservedto be a HOFer
 
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