GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

[crcballer55]

Originally Posted by UptownsDotNetStacky

Originally Posted by crcballer55

Originally Posted by Nyota de la star


I mean...correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Bush tax cuts a sizeable fraction of the deficit problem?

Both parties are responsible for this current economic debacle though. No doubt.
Just registered to vote last week and proudly checked that Independent box

.

You're right that both parties are responsible.  The Republicans cut taxes, which caused revenues to skyrocket into the treasury.  However, like most politicians they couldn't help themselves and spent every bit of the increase and then some to justify "homeland security" and "Medicare Part D".  Both of which has been complete financial disasters.  However, the Democrats have had their own set of fiasco's with Stimulus 2 and the auto bailouts.

I hate when people say that...the government gave the Automotive Industry LOANS, meaning they pay that money back (which they are on pace to be complete with in the next year or so) .....the banks were BAILED OUT, meaning you'll NEVER EVER EVER EVER see that money again

You have your facts reversed there.  The TARP was actually a loan, which has by in large been paid back (which doesn't make me support TARP any more).  The auto industry was bailed out.  Correction... the unions were bailed out.  The Canadian union & UAW received a 60% stake in the "new" GM while the current bond holders were completely wiped out despite normal bankruptcy restructuring laws which would be the normal course of action.  Instead, the federal government decided to buy common stock in the company for $48/share and when GM went public again, the IPO of $33/share.  That only accounted for half the shares while the government still holds the other half.  Since the current share price is only $21, it's going to take a really long time until we get our money back on that investment of those shares.

If we want to talk about Chrysler, we just sold that to Fiat and they keep saying that they have "repaid" their loans.  But in reality they have really refinanced the same loan 3 times since then with additional money given to Fiat as an incentive to bring small cars to America.  There's a reason why it hasn't had an American footprint for 30 years (Fix it again, Tony).  Their only successes have been in sports cars (Ferrari & Bugatti) so hopefully they can at least bring some quality back to the Dodge line.  Which reminds me... Those commercials about Dodge being American cars made in Detroit make me laugh every time.

 

[rexanglorum]

Crc, you know your stuff about the bailouts of the auto industry. The way the bonds were handled has been a major issue for many firms and their ability to expand. There is no such thing as a "secured" bond when President Obama sits on his throne. You cannot get the same financing on secured loans any more because you cannot use your physical assets as collateral any more, the President might just take it away and change the norms of bankruptcy law on a whim. He is going have to be defeated in the election for there to be a recovery.

As far as policy and politics are concerned, Republicans should go along with this tax cut. Do not give the President any more ammunition for his rich versus the rest rhetoric. I do agree that temporary tax cuts are not as good as permanent cuts, in terms of their effect on economic growth, and that supply side tax cuts like tax cuts for entrepreneurs (the quarter to two million range, roughly) and investors (the capital gains tax) are more potent than these demand side cuts (worker payroll tax), there is the issue of fairness (no one should have a tax hike right now, and it would hurt poor people the most) and it is better to have those billions in private hands, creating private demand. You do not have to Keynesian to see that more demand is always helpful, all things being equal, during time of high unemployment and slow growth.

 

[mikykr20]

Do you all believe everything in the news? Man, I can't wait to vote obama out!!!!

 

[crcballer55]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum


Crc, you know your stuff about the bailouts of the auto industry. The way the bonds were handled has been a major issue for many firms and their ability to expand. There is no such thing as a "secured" bond when President Obama sits on his throne. You cannot get the same financing on secured loans any more because you cannot use your physical assets as collateral any more, the President might just take it away and change the norms of bankruptcy law on a whim. He is going have to be defeated in the election for there to be a recovery.

As far as policy and politics are concerned, Republicans should go along with this tax cut. Do not give the President any more ammunition for his rich versus the rest rhetoric. I do agree that temporary tax cuts are not as good as permanent cuts, in terms of their effect on economic growth, and that supply side tax cuts like tax cuts for entrepreneurs (the quarter to two million range, roughly) and investors (the capital gains tax) are more potent than these demand side cuts (worker payroll tax), there is the issue of fairness (no one should have a tax hike right now, and it would hurt poor people the most) and it is better to have those billions in private hands, creating private demand. You do not have to Keynesian to see that more demand is always helpful, all things being equal, during time of high unemployment and slow growth.

Thanks Rex.

I somewhat agree on the tax cuts.  Although I'm not completely opposed to tax increases, I do not want increased just because we are in severe debt.  I have handled troubled assets for individuals for several years and have learned that no matter how much you earn you can never out earn your stupidity.  You can always find a way to spend more which is why I reject the thinking that people making over $250K/yr. are "rich".  In most cases they are spending the majority of that and thus driving the economy.  If the government would cut a LOT of the repetitive departments and programs (do we really need 3 food stamp programs?) then I would be willing to pay more to help the situation.  However, when they want me to pay more just to spend it on something new rather than what they said they would (which is what always happens) then I'm going to fight tooth and nail to keep what I earned.

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by Nyota de la star

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

Originally Posted by jay zoe2

Disgusting. I still don't see how people with incomes less than $100,000 can call themselves Republicans. They only care and look out for the wealthy and corporations. Sadly, when thing really get bad by 2016 and China has us a over a barrel; The Republicans will blame it all on President Obama and America will eat it up.

kinda like how democrats and obama are still blaming bush for what is happening. 

I mean...correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Bush tax cuts a sizeable fraction of the deficit problem?

Yeah, letting people keep their money, and not the spending on wars, a new Medicare program, EPA standards, ect. contributed to the deficit problem.

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

sensitive thugs, you all need hugs

 

[True Blues]

Originally Posted by crcballer55

I have handled troubled assets for individuals for several years and have learned that no matter how much you earn you can never out earn your stupidity.

This statement alone explains the current economic and political state of America.