Ichiro in pursuit of.....Eckstein?

[illoquent aka dsk]

My man...Ichiro is one of the greatest hitters of all time, and that's including the stuff he did overseas and on here.

But thee greatest hitter of all time?

No.

 

[we get live]

I would love to see every Yankees (team & individual player) records broken.
Damn, that's just straight hate my man.

And for the record, I don't think the hit streak will ever be topped.

 

[651akathepaul]

^ Arguably dangit. I didn't say he was definitively THE best.

And really...He's top 5 easily imo.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Ichiro one the greatest hitters of all time.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ Arguably dangit. I didn't say he was definitively THE best.

And really...He's top 5 easily imo.

Gwynn, Rose, Carew, Puckett, Manny, Pujols, Molitor, Ted Williams, Mattingly, Edgar Martinez, Jeter, Wade Boggs, and possibly A-Rod (though,don't know with the recent stuff) And then we still have all the real old school guys like Clemente, Gherig, etc etc etc that I have no way of knowing iftrue or not.

None of these guys hit 14 hoppers to the shortstop over and over and over and run real fast to get base hits.

Not sayin Ichiro isn't talented, or skilled at what he does, but come on with the superlatives. Dude slaps singles around the infield, congrats, save thebest hitter crap for the guys who can actually hit the ball somewhere.

 

[lb510]

Originally Posted by Proshares

LOL NT curse will break this streak tonight.

 

[651akathepaul]

Gwynn, Rose, Williams, Cobb (not mentioned), and maybe Molitor and Carew are the only ones I'll give you.

The others are great hitters, and I'll give you Pujols too, but he is almost a different kind of great hitter.

 

[CP1708]

at me forgetting Cobb. I heard he was ok.

Edgar, Donnie baseball, Boggs, Puckett, all could do way more with a bat then chopper beater outter guy.

And Manny is top 5 I have ever seen, boobs be damned.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Gwynn, Rose, Williams, Cobb (not mentioned), and maybe Molitor and Carew are the only ones I'll give you.

The others are great hitters, and I'll give you Pujols too, but he is almost a different kind of great hitter.

Why?

You forgot the part why you explain your insane reasoning that a singles hitter is the greatest hitter of all time.

 

[tee eye ehm]

ichiro can be a power hitter if he wanted to.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Originally Posted by tee eye ehm

ichiro can be a power hitter if he wanted to.

 

[juan baller]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Word. More an Ichiro appreciation type thread. The man is arguably the greatest hitter of all-time.

I hope and pray this is a typo.

A cruel joke.

A hacking

Anything but what is typed up there.

This dude is the most overrated player I have ever seen. Jesus.

Not really outlandish at all. Really huh? You're going there?

Ichiro's hitting is slightly overrated. He's a certainly still great hitter, but he really shouldn't be in the conversation ofgreatest hitter of all time because so many of his hits are the result of beating out ground balls. It's a good thing he bats leadoff, otherwise a lot ofhis "hits" would be scored "fielder's choice".

Contact-wise, this has actually been an horrible hitting season for Ichiro. His Line Drive % is way down, but what's saving him is he's beating out anunstainable % of ground balls, >15%. Ichiro is great at beating out ground balls, but even he can only sustain 12%.

In my opinion, the true greatest hitters are players that can:
1. sustain a high Line Drive % (>22%)
2. hit more more Fly Balls than Ground Balls (GB/FB ratio <1)
3. consistently hit for a high average

David Wright, Chase Utley, Manny Ramirez, and Kevin Youkilis all meet this criteria. Pujols and Mauer fail to meet the criteria because they hit too manyground balls, but that's only because they rarely strike out... so both should certainly be considered.

Under this criteria, Todd Helton is best the hitter over the last 10 years (not counting Barry Bonds), but much of his performance was aided by Coors Field...and Helton has also fallen off pretty hard (his GB/FB ratio has almost doubled from his prime).

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by tee eye ehm

ichiro can be a power hitter if he wanted to.

This ridiculous reasoning, I don't care what couldhave done, what has he done.

If he was dumb enough to only hit singles that thats his moronic prerogative.

 

[651akathepaul]

His "chopper beating" is overlooked as a cheap way to get on base using speed, when in all actuality those pitches he's hitting are usually oneof two things: Way out of the strike zone, or swung at in whip like fashion at the very last second. He's getting infield hits on pitches most either take,or can't hit at all.

His numbers speak for themselves. You're jumbling extra base hits and power with just simple hitting it seems. Boggs and Mattingly weren't extra basehit guys either, but then again their numbers can be distorting because their careers in the MLB spanned much longer than Ichiro. Outside of that...No wayjose. In fact...Any way yous spin it, Mattingly isn't even close.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Gwynn, Rose, Williams, Cobb (not mentioned), and maybe Molitor and Carew are the only ones I'll give you.

The others are great hitters, and I'll give you Pujols too, but he is almost a different kind of great hitter.

Why?

You forgot the part why you explain your insane reasoning that a singles hitter is the greatest hitter of all time.

Never said he was...ARGUABLE...Kapeesh? Numbers ain't "lying" on this one bud. Look it up.

 

[tee eye ehm]

i remember reading somewhere, i forget where exactly that ichiro said he can hit HR's if he wanted to, but he wants to stay in the majors for as long aspossible. correct me if im wrong but he has had seasons in japan where he was hitting somewhere around 25 HR's a season. since in the majors he barely goesinto double digits.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by tee eye ehm

i remember reading somewhere, i forget where exactly that ichiro said he can hit HR's if he wanted to, but he wants to stay in the majors for as long as possible. correct me if im wrong but he has had seasons in japan where he was hitting somewhere around 25 HR's a season. since in the majors he barely goes into double digits.

And if you ever seen him take batting practice you'd know he can, however, this argument won't fly at all. Bottom line is, he doesn'thit homers here and his Japan home runs don't hold any value here...Thanks for the help though.

 

[tee eye ehm]

im just saying...mariners are my favorite team, and ichiro is all i can hold on to since griffey and johnson left (i know jr. is back, but it aint the same),so ever since reading that he can hit homers but doesnt want to, is just ridiculous to me! just go all out!

theres so many things that ichiro can do, and maybe more if he had spent his whole career in the bigs.

i wanna see a .400 avg at the end of the season though. last person i remember coming close was my dads fave player in tony gwynn

 

[jordanpp30]

The main reason WHY he WONT break the record is.... pitchers WONT pitch to him.

 

[651akathepaul]

Honestly, if over .400 happens in this era, the only players I think can achieve that would be Ichiro, Mauer, or Pujols because he walks so much.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You right the number don't lie.

Ichiro one of the greatest hitters of all time only had an OBP over .400 ONCE in his career.
Ichiro one of the greatest hittersof all time NEVER SLGed .500 in his career

Please...


BA isn't everything my friends don't let it fool into saying ridiculous things.

 

[651akathepaul]

^When you're talking pure hitters, why should anything but avg and hits matter? Slugging pct?

Not a deciding factor.

 

[juan baller]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

His "chopper beating" is overlooked as a cheap way to get on base using speed, when in all actuality those pitches he's hitting are usually one of two things: Way out of the strike zone, or swung at in whip like fashion at the very last second. He's getting infield hits on pitches most either take, or can't hit at all.

His numbers speak for themselves. You're jumbling extra base hits and power with just simple hitting it seems. Boggs and Mattingly weren't extra base hit guys either, but then again their numbers can be distorting because their careers in the MLB spanned much longer than Ichiro. Outside of that...No way jose. In fact...Any way yous spin it, Mattingly isn't even close.

You're gonna choke on your foot if you keep trying to argue this.

Mattingly led the league in Extra-base hits twice, hit 30+ HR in 3 straight seasons, and led the league in Doubles for 3 straight seasons.

Boggs hit 40+ Doubles in 7 straight seasons and led the league twice.

 

[651akathepaul]

^ Interesting...Thanks for the input...That argument is closed

As for Osh Kosh...His OBP is always so low because he swings and can hit the ball iln play with any pitch. He doesn't take many walks at all.

Either way, don't know how this got so out of hand..When all is said and done he will be up there for sure no matter what anyone is seeing...This post wasto appreciated his 8th time reaching a hit streak of 20 games...So let us keep it that way

Going for 28 tomorrow...Against the Twins? Interesting...hit for Ichiro and a win for Twins.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^When you're talking pure hitters, why should anything but avg and hits matter? Slugging pct?

Not a deciding factor.

Hitting for power is just as much apart of hitting as hitting singles, we don't create a whole new category for people who can't hit forpower or take a walk.

Great is someone who has great command of the strike zone. (Ichiro does not.)
Gets on base at a very high rate (Ichiro does not)
and can hit for power (Ichiro does not)

Ichirco swinging at bad pitches is not a good thing.