Is Kevin Durant the last NBA Superstar for awhile?

Originally Posted by TheBlackHole76

Is 48 points on the road in Game 5 of the ECF against the heavily-favored super-defense-heavy Pistons while scoring your team's last 25 points not enough of a "memory" when it comes to clutchess? The fact that it didn't come on a technical-speaking "buzzer-beater" (which is an EXTREMELY NARROW range of situations) means it doesn't really count? (And despite the fact that he did INDEED have the game-winning shot, just that there was a second or two left on the game clock or something.)

Lebron, though performing terribly in last year's Finals, has been quite proficient enough when things mattered.
07-08 Clutch Stats: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
08-09 Clutch Stats: http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
09-10 Clutch Stats: http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
10-11 Clutch Stats: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
He's at or near the top of the list in points/48mins during clutch time every year. And beyond scoring, his FG% is higher than Durant and Kobe's every single year, while blowing away almost everyone in terms of combined points, assists, and rebounds.

To define "clutch" as the very last 5 seconds (or whatever) of the game is extremely myopic. Kobe has more game-winning shots than Jordan and that is fact. But that's because MJ didn't need the situation to require buzzer-beaters or game-winning shots to begin with. He would just dominate the 4th or the last 5 minutes and pull away and not let go. The last shot is 1 shot out of around 180 shots that two teams will put up in a game. To think that that 1 shot counts, say, ten times more than the other 89 shots your team takes is silly. 
And if that's STILL not enough for you, then here are the stats on game-winning shots: http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm  . Once again, Lebron is QUITE proficient enough compared to his peers.

Has Lebron performed up to standards in the playoffs? Recently - not really. But earlier in his career he met or exceeded expectations in the playoffs every year. Not until the Orlando series did he start under-performing.

I'm not saying he's the CLUTCHEST around or anything like that. He's had some issues last few playoff years, but to say he CANNOT perform in the clutch is ridiculous. Just as recently as the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the playoffs last year shows he was QUITE clutch. Those Boston and Chicago series he displayed an amazing propensity for clutch play and big time shots... enough such that this entire board and the media was saying he had banished his un-clutch demons. His performance against Dallas was putrid, but that's no reason to speak as if he had NO clutch capability whatsoever.
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very articulate.
 
Originally Posted by Al3xis

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Anthony Davis?
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+ your man Wiggins are really the only two I could really feel confident penciling in for 10 ASG's and being franchise players if you're just looking in the college and HS ranks. 
Beyond that it's a roll of the dice, but that's usually the case. 
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You're ready to pencil Anthony Davis in for 10 all star games ?
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Stop.
 
Originally Posted by NooEra

Originally Posted by Al3xis

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Anthony Davis?
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+ your man Wiggins are really the only two I could really feel confident penciling in for 10 ASG's and being franchise players if you're just looking in the college and HS ranks. 
Beyond that it's a roll of the dice, but that's usually the case. 
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You're ready to pencil Anthony Davis in for 10 all star games ?
roll.gif


Stop.
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Barring any serious injuries, yes. It's a little bit of hyperbole, but Even if he doesn't accumulate that many - he'll be there more often than not. 
 
Originally Posted by NooEra

Originally Posted by Al3xis

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Anthony Davis?
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+ your man Wiggins are really the only two I could really feel confident penciling in for 10 ASG's and being franchise players if you're just looking in the college and HS ranks. 
Beyond that it's a roll of the dice, but that's usually the case. 
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You're ready to pencil Anthony Davis in for 10 all star games ?
roll.gif


Stop.
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his thin frame seems to be his only knock & it's way overblown.

Even had a dude at my gym say he won't leave school because of it.
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Man listen

You can put all the numbers out there in the world, but Lebron is not clutch. If you give him the ball with 5 seconds left you are stupid. That All Star Game said it all, Lebron handling the ball with seconds left, not even looking for the shot, but to PASS, and then to turn it over when the most clutch shooter on the East (Melo) is next to you?

You can call him a superstar based on talent and popularity, but Larry Bird said it best, if he had to chose one player, Lebron would be fun to play with, but Kobe is gonna get you the win, because of his heart and desire.

I don't know what the criteria is for a superstar, but Durant WILL BE THAT GUY, and AUSTIN RIVERS IS NEXT
 
Originally Posted by illwill24

Man listen

You can put all the numbers out there in the world, but Lebron is not clutch. If you give him the ball with 5 seconds left you are stupid. That All Star Game said it all, Lebron handling the ball with seconds left, not even looking for the shot, but to PASS, and then to turn it over when the most clutch shooter on the East (Melo) is next to you?

You can call him a superstar based on talent and popularity, but Larry Bird said it best, if he had to chose one player, Lebron would be fun to play with, but Kobe is gonna get you the win, because of his heart and desire.

I don't know what the criteria is for a superstar, but Durant WILL BE THAT GUY, and AUSTIN RIVERS IS NEXT
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How do you make this argument based on an All-Star Game, of all games... and when in the same All-Star Game KOBE misses 1 of 2 free throws with 18 seconds left that would have sealed the game, and MELO misses a critical, wide-open 3 with 23 seconds left, and DURANT makes a terrible turnover in his own backcourt to DWill with under 2 minutes left that let the East be in the game at all? ... And then conveniently ignore that when Lebron re-entered at 6:48, he made two crazy 3's and a foot-on-the-line long 2 to make the game even close at all, as well as assists to Wade and D12 (leading to a dunk) during the same stretch.
"But naw, none of that matters! It's only the last shot that counts!!!!"

Let's say Deron Williams makes his 3 at the end of the game to win the game for the East. Would have been a legit assist for Lebron, giving him 8 points (all on tough, long shots) and 3 assists all in crunch time. Would you be ready to say, then, that Kobe choked the game away as well? You can't just pick and choose examples and dictate false microcosms to be indicative of anything other than your own confirmation bias.
 
Originally Posted by illwill24

Man listen

You can put all the numbers out there in the world, but Lebron is not clutch. If you give him the ball with 5 seconds left you are stupid. That All Star Game said it all, Lebron handling the ball with seconds left, not even looking for the shot, but to PASS, and then to turn it over when the most clutch shooter on the East (Melo) is next to you?

You can call him a superstar based on talent and popularity, but Larry Bird said it best, if he had to chose one player, Lebron would be fun to play with, but Kobe is gonna get you the win, because of his heart and desire.

I don't know what the criteria is for a superstar, but Durant WILL BE THAT GUY, and AUSTIN RIVERS IS NEXT
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Man, what!?
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Also I didn't want to say it, but ever since I saw Wiggins put up 20 points in 20 minutes as 15 year old against the USA (a team with Drummond, Beal and MKG on it), I knew it was real.

I woul be really surprised if i didn't see him in an all star game at some point, which is probably insane to say about someone his age.
 
I don't see how Durant will pass LeBron any time soon. I love KD, humble dude, from the area, but LeBron is LeBron. Nope.
 
Im goin in for closer inspection... will b courtside tonight
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tickets in Philly ae hella cheap... less than 4 bills for 2 right beside the thunder bench

check for me. dunno what kicks ill rock jus yet. wc ivs or space jams for sure tho
 
I dunno if hes the last star for awhile or whatever but I d believe he will be he all time scoring leader...
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dude is 7 foot... legit 7 foot with the game he has... its ******ed. he had like 7 pts halfway thru the 3rd... ended with 20 summin easilyyyy

and i now see y Russy is so big headed... he can do whatever he damn well please, take the contact and finish... he ran through lavoy allen like half a dozen times

i didnt get any pics of the fight cuz I was too busy yellin for my Evan Turner to let them hands go
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Iggys frame in real life....
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no momo dude is shredded
 
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I don't see how Durant will pass LeBron any time soon. I love KD, humble dude, from the area, but LeBron is LeBron. Nope.
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exactly lebron is a defensive monster kd does not have any defense at all. 
if u look at any superstars like jordan kobe lebron they all have made defensive 1st team.

the only thing holding lebron back is his missing clutch if he ever gets that he will probably be the best in the league for a while.

i think if kd applies himself more and gets a little more muscle he will be very good on defense due to his 6'10- frame
 
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at people still talking about "muscle." KD is basketball strong, all that matters; perenially amongst the top of the league in getting to the ft line, and 1s (taking contact and still finishing), and doesn't miss games with injury. Who cares how many reps he can do of a bar? Okafor did 22 reps, how'd that work out for him? DJ Mbenga? Rafael Arruajo?

I agree about KD's defense though. He can play d, when he "wants to" i.e crucial 4th quarter possessions but if he figured out like LeBron how to dominate on that end for the entire game, or how to want to anyways, could be scary.

Like tonight, the Magic were down 5 with very short time remaining, he's guarding Ryan Anderson knowing they need a 3, and he's like 5ft off of him sunken toward the paint and doesn't even get a hand up and Anderson just walks right into a 3 and knocks it down. That's just a lack of focus, or caring.

Sometimes I wish Coach Brooks held him, and Westbrook, and everyone else more accountable at times.
 
Originally Posted by Scientific Method

laugh.gif
at people still talking about "muscle." KD is basketball strong, all that matters; perenially amongst the top of the league in getting to the ft line, and 1s (taking contact and still finishing), and doesn't miss games with injury. Who cares how many reps he can do of a bar? Okafor did 22 reps, how'd that work out for him? DJ Mbenga? Rafael Arruajo?

I agree about KD's defense though. He can play d, when he "wants to" i.e crucial 4th quarter possessions but if he figured out like LeBron how to dominate on that end for the entire game, or how to want to anyways, could be scary.

Like tonight, the Magic were down 5 with very short time remaining, he's guarding Ryan Anderson knowing they need a 3, and he's like 5ft off of him sunken toward the paint and doesn't even get a hand up and Anderson just walks right into a 3 and knocks it down. That's just a lack of focus, or caring.

Sometimes I wish Coach Brooks held him, and Westbrook, and everyone else more accountable at times.
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which superstar didnt have muscle?
sasha vujacic?
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i seriously cant think of a skinny superstar
 
How bout the dude Durant is commonly compared to? George Gervin. He was pretty good.

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at thinking muscle had any correlation to their superstardom, particularly when talking about a wing player.

Wonder how many reps of 185 Gervin would do if they had the combine back then, and how much people would take it and say he can't be an effective NBA player because of it. He even looks skinnier than Durant.
Spoiler [+]
GeorgeGervin.jpg
 
Originally Posted by odog24

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

laugh.gif
at people still talking about "muscle." KD is basketball strong, all that matters; perenially amongst the top of the league in getting to the ft line, and 1s (taking contact and still finishing), and doesn't miss games with injury. Who cares how many reps he can do of a bar? Okafor did 22 reps, how'd that work out for him? DJ Mbenga? Rafael Arruajo?

I agree about KD's defense though. He can play d, when he "wants to" i.e crucial 4th quarter possessions but if he figured out like LeBron how to dominate on that end for the entire game, or how to want to anyways, could be scary.

Like tonight, the Magic were down 5 with very short time remaining, he's guarding Ryan Anderson knowing they need a 3, and he's like 5ft off of him sunken toward the paint and doesn't even get a hand up and Anderson just walks right into a 3 and knocks it down. That's just a lack of focus, or caring.

Sometimes I wish Coach Brooks held him, and Westbrook, and everyone else more accountable at times.
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which superstar didnt have muscle?
sasha vujacic?
laugh.gif


i seriously cant think of a skinny superstar
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I always thought t-mac was a little on the thinner side, especially in his early years.  Although it's tough to come close to how thin Durant is.  The stuff he does is still unreal.
 
Originally Posted by Scientific Method

How bout the dude Durant is commonly compared to? George Gervin. He was pretty good.

laugh.gif
at thinking muscle had any correlation to their superstardom, particularly when talking about a wing player.

Wonder how many reps of 185 Gervin would do if they had the combine back then, and how much people would take it and say he can't be an effective NBA player because of it. He even looks skinnier than Durant.
Spoiler [+]
GeorgeGervin.jpg
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well george gervin wasnt a great like jordan or kobe so i guess kd will be a george gervin 
ohwell.gif
 
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