IYO,Can a person be gay, yet be a legitimate, practicing,Jew, Christian, or Muslim?

I don't see how being homosexual is any different than having heterosexual sex before you're married or any of the hundreds of things that married people now do in bed that were considered sodomy back when those horribly-outdated, currently-misinterpreted texts were written.

If the actual sin is ACTING upon homosexual urges, then the same should hold true for acting upon heterosexual urges as well. If the latter is forgivable and acceptable, then so should be the former.
 
Cz7 wrote:
AntBanks81 wrote:
you can, just would be considered a hypocrite...unfortunately, there are lots of hypocrites in the church stemming from different sinful lives
if you're a hypocritical christian then you aren't a legitimate christian. 


I wouldn't say you are not legitimate, I would say He is not done working on you. I forget the verse but it goes "God is married to the backslider" (no jokes please) It means that although many have accepted God, many still fall short. It is about recognizing your weaknesses and praying for strength to change. 

If you believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he came to earth, died for our sins and rose again, you are saved. It doesn't mean that you are free to live life however you want afterwards.

I admit that I believe homosexuality is nasty, but the sin is no greater than me having premarital sex or murdering. I am no where near my spiritual apex, but I am working on it everyday. Hopefully, those living in that homosexual life will realize it is wrong and move forward just as I hope to become married and do away with what is the only real sin I commit regularly.

  
 
Originally Posted by AntBanks81

Cz7 wrote:
AntBanks81 wrote:
you can, just would be considered a hypocrite...unfortunately, there are lots of hypocrites in the church stemming from different sinful lives
if you're a hypocritical christian then you aren't a legitimate christian. 


I wouldn't say you are not legitimate, I would say He is not done working on you. I forget the verse but it goes "God is married to the backslider" (no jokes please) It means that although many have accepted God, many still fall short. It is about recognizing your weaknesses and praying for strength to change. 

If you believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he came to earth, died for our sins and rose again, you are saved. It doesn't mean that you are free to live life however you want afterwards.

I admit that I believe homosexuality is nasty, but the sin is no greater than me having premarital sex or murdering. I am no where near my spiritual apex, but I am working on it everyday. Hopefully, those living in that homosexual life will realize it is wrong and move forward just as I hope to become married and do away with what is the only real sin I commit regularly.

  
Again, You think what you are doing is wrong according to your religion and want to change.
This discussion is about :

"I am talking about practicing homosexuals with no intention of becoming heterosexual or wanting to be heterosexual, who also feel there is nothing wrong with being homosexual according to their respective religion. "

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Originally Posted by Cz7

 I am talking about practicing homosexuals with no intention of becoming heterosexual or wanting to be heterosexual, who also feel there is nothing wrong with being homosexual according to their respective religion. 
If you are homosexual in any of the Abrahamic religions, you would have to recognize it as abnormal sexual behavior.  The argument of whether or not it is genetic or learned is moot.  It really doesn't have anything to do with it.

Just because we have urges or temptations doesn't make it acceptable to act on them.  And whether or not it is inherent or learned doesn't change the fact that one has these temptations.

Celibacy is, imo, the wrong route.  For as we've seen, this can drive people to do terrible things to satisfy the natural human desire of intercourse.

The best route is to get married to one of the opposite sex, (according to Islamic scholars) to satisfy the natural desire of intercourse, and suppress the abnormal desire of a homosexual relationship.
 
Homosexuality is the only Sin you LIVE IN sorry, but you can lie and that lie is over once it's done being said and you can be forgiven and the same with any other Sin you commit but being "gay" is living in sin and if you live in sin you are Not of the Father's house, Not saying you cant be forgiven of the sin because you can but according to the Bible NO you cant be Christian and be gay, sorry but that's just the truth read the bible instead of just giving opinion on what it says

I couldn't agree more, this right here above is what it's all about.


People don't just wake up one morning and decide to be homosexual.

I don't know about that one, I feel differently regarding this aspect.
 
Originally Posted by milkandcookies

I am a considerably religious muslim, and I say that yes you can be a homosexual and be muslim.
BUT, because premarital sexual practice is not permitted in islam and since individuals of the same gender can't marry then homosexual sexual practice of any kind is forbidden.
But being physically attracted to an individual of the same gender, IMO is not a sin and does not conflict w/ your religion as long as you understand that you must exercise an incredible amount of self-restraint.

Wait so if Gay marriage was legal then homosexuals who are married can get down and still be good under the rules?
serious question
 
Originally Posted by LiveFree

Thou shall not sleep with man.... is just one of many decrees that common man regularly disobeys. Anybody who discriminates against homosexuality due to Christianity is just plain bigoted or really ignorant of their own religion.

Here's a few rules from Leviticus , the same book most Christians get their stance on homosexuality from, that Christain break everyday.

All of these are from Leviticus Ch. 19
 [sup]11[/sup] " 'Do not steal.
      " 'Do not lie.
      " 'Do not deceive one another.

 [sup]12[/sup] " 'Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

 [sup]19[/sup] " 'Keep my decrees.
      " 'Do not mate different kinds of animals.
      " 'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
      " 'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

 [sup]27[/sup] " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

 [sup]28[/sup] " 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

 [sup]30[/sup] " 'Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the LORD.

 [sup]33[/sup] " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. [sup]34[/sup]The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born.Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD yourGod.
 [sup]Ch 13 - 45[/sup] "The person with such an infectious disease must wear torn clothes, let his hair be unkempt, [sup][d][/sup] cover the lower part of his face and cry out, 'Unclean! Unclean!' [sup]46[/sup] As long as he has the infection he remains unclean. He must live alone; he must live outside the camp



Exactly and this is the Old Law, people always say this as an excuse, Jesus came to be Fulfilment of the Law and bring a new some laws carried over (the one in question, because Jesus talks about it) but some "odd ones" didnt and where only for[font=Times, Verdana, Arial] Israelites that had been held captive in Egypt and mainly for the preisthood of that time[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial],[font=Times, Verdana, Arial] Youve gotta Read the whole Bible to understand not just pick out something that doessnt make sence to you and run with it[/font][/font]
 
Originally Posted by Lightweight Champion

Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Yes...

...the same way I'm a God-fearing practicing Christian that's supposed to be a virgin, but far from it.

''How'' might you ask? For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God...

...and, if you confess your sins - He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

Christianity is not about being perfect, it's about being forgiven...

...if this thread is still open when I wake up, I'll share a story about an openly gay suitemate I had in South Africa from Kansas who knew more about the Bible than myself.
Homosexuality is the only Sin you LIVE IN sorry, but you can lie and that lie is over once it's done being said and you can be forgiven and the same with any other Sin you commit but being "gay" is living in sin and if you live in sin you are Not of the Father's house, Not saying you cant be forgiven of the sin because you can but according to the Bible NO you cant be Christian and be gay, sorry but that's just the truth read the bible instead of just giving opinion on what it says
jesus said himself on the day you stand before him some people will say they did his work, but he said he will tell them "Depart from me, I never knew you, evildoer" and many other place he says that many will come in his name or that people will say they loved the father and his ways but wouldnt turn from thier sin......sorry but this is the truth according to the Bible, now if you dont believe the Bible you can believe what you want, but if you do this is what it says
I gotta respectfully disagree my man.  The bible is a book created by man to share THEIR thoughts and experiences with God.  In a sense, we could all write our own bibles to share OUR thoughts and experiences with God.

And what exactly is the truth?  Is it fact or reason? Or is it something that, over time, everyone agrees on?
Sorry bro but the Bible says it's writing are from God, you can believe what you want, but in tell you WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS and even if you take only what Jesus said himself you can still see everything lines up with what the rest of the Bible says, the Bible isnt subjective and that's what you are trying to make it to be the word is Truth according to the scripture.....what exactly is truth? according to who you? you can MAKE truth be whatever you want it to be BUT we are talking about the Bible and OP is asking what IT says about Homosexuality and not each of our opinions on it
 
Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

The Hadith:


"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to."
LOL......you don't want me to start posting bible quotes. People are quick to pick and choose based on their own agendas. If people took the whole bible literally....EVERYBODY...I mean literally 100 percent of the people on this earth aren't true Christians.




Some of the Strange Laws in the Bible

The inspiration for this section originates with Christians and Christian groups using the Bible to justify horrible actions, most notable in recent years has been gay bashing.  Rev. Fred Phelps protests any people who support gays, as well as homosexual funerals with colorful signs reading "God Hates @+*@" or "Burn in Hell !$*!!!".  Dr. Laura, a disgustingly boring radio personality, as well as failed TV personality... not to mention a bad source of advice, also uses the Bible to justify her dislike of homosexuals.  The Ku Klux Klan uses the Bible to justify their actions, as well as abortion clinic bombers, mail bombers, and dictators/tyrants throughout history.  But what does the Bible really say about things like this?  How does the Bible expect us to act?  Let us find out.

Homosexuals MUST DIE!!!

The killing of homosexuals is condoned and encouraged in the wonderful laws of Leviticus.  Leviticus 20:13 clearly states "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."  Well there you have it, Homosexuality is wrong, and they must pay the ultimate price... IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!

Who else shouldn't people do?

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)  Have you ever done that?

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10).  I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death.  (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16).  I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants.  Are they crazy?

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death.  (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a *+!%%, she is to be burnt at the stake.  (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community.  (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
 
We might as well employ Hammurabi's law in modern society
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Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

The Hadith:


"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to."
LOL......you don't want me to start posting bible quotes. People are quick to pick and choose based on their own agendas. If people took the whole bible literally....EVERYBODY...I mean literally 100 percent of the people on this earth aren't true Christians.




Some of the Strange Laws in the Bible

The inspiration for this section originates with Christians and Christian groups using the Bible to justify horrible actions, most notable in recent years has been gay bashing.  Rev. Fred Phelps protests any people who support gays, as well as homosexual funerals with colorful signs reading "God Hates @+*@" or "Burn in Hell !$*!!!".  Dr. Laura, a disgustingly boring radio personality, as well as failed TV personality... not to mention a bad source of advice, also uses the Bible to justify her dislike of homosexuals.  The Ku Klux Klan uses the Bible to justify their actions, as well as abortion clinic bombers, mail bombers, and dictators/tyrants throughout history.  But what does the Bible really say about things like this?  How does the Bible expect us to act?  Let us find out.

Homosexuals MUST DIE!!!

The killing of homosexuals is condoned and encouraged in the wonderful laws of Leviticus.  Leviticus 20:13 clearly states "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."  Well there you have it, Homosexuality is wrong, and they must pay the ultimate price... IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!

Who else shouldn't people do?

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)  Have you ever done that?

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10).  I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death.  (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16).  I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants.  Are they crazy?

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death.  (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a *+!%%, she is to be burnt at the stake.  (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community.  (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Finally you are here!!! what took you so long................Do you know the difference between OT law and NT law? why and what the reason was for it? you just quoted all of Leviticus do you even know what that book is for or to? hurry run to Goggle ill wait, But honestly I wont be able to reply until tonight, Im off to work and wont be back until later tonight just intime for NT to try and get Camron to shout out NT lol
 
I do know the diff between old and new testament law....new testament law is less crazy and more reasonable.

With that beings said, I quoted these because many anti-homosexual religious nutjobs base most of their anti-gay sentiments on old testament scriptures....same goes with Judaism but it seems to me like Jews are a little more liberal about this kinda things. It's all political imo.

Can't speak for Islam, but I suspect I would find some equally insane teachings in the Koran if I looked.



Are there any anti-gay scriptures in the New Testament?
 
Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Aren't all sins equal? There isn't a sin that's worse than the other. Therefore, if you have Christians who happen to lie or who steal or who commit adultery, why wouldn't a homosexual be considered a legitimate Christian?
This.

I am sure not all sins are equal though, such as murder would have more weight than stealing. Also, isn't pre-marital sex also a sin which has repercussions of hell, yet fornication is practiced quite freely. In these religious texts, doesn't it say that sodomy is a sin rather than if you are homosexual?

  
 
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

I do know the diff between old and new testament law....new testament law is less crazy and more reasonable.
That's not what I asked, Im asking what the difference is in the Scripture, not your taking of it, you quote all of that yet dont know what it means or why or who it's for and what changes in the NT, Funny because the OP isnt asking if it's true he is asking if you are a Christian or Muslim WHAT IT SAYS, If you dont believe bro that's fine but he is asking as if one does what does it say, all Im doing is telling him what it says if he doessnt like it he doessnt have to believe either simple as that.............out the door ill check back later
 
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Are there any anti-gay scriptures in the New Testament?
There are some in the books that are letters written by the apostles (WRITTEN BY MEN).  But there is this whole big thing about the old rules being broken and to love your neighbor regardless of their faults that was said by some hippie with long hair named Jesus or some such name that most of my fellow Christians seem to enjoy ignoring.
 
Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

I do know the diff between old and new testament law....new testament law is less crazy and more reasonable.
That's not what I asked, Im asking what the difference is in the Scripture, not your taking of it, you quote all of that yet dont know what it means or why or who it's for and what changes in the NT, Funny because the OP isnt asking if it's true he is asking if you are a Christian or Muslim WHAT IT SAYS, If you dont believe bro that's fine but he is asking as if one does what does it say, all Im doing is telling him what it says if he doessnt like it he doessnt have to believe either simple as that.............out the door ill check back later
You may have to educate me on this.....are they speaking in riddles? It seems pretty clear cut. If you sleep with an animal, you get killed. If you lie to your parents, you get killed.

1. Explain to me the significance of those bible quotes I posted...do these quotes have a higher meaning? seems pretty clear cut to me
2.I posted those quotes to show that OPs question is irrelevant....if Homosexuals can't be Christians/Jews....most of us can't be.
3. Your run-on sentences are confusing the hell out of me....come back later with clearer sentences and explicitly explain to me what I need to learn about the NT vs. OT.
 
Originally Posted by ninjallamafromhell

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Are there any anti-gay scriptures in the New Testament?
There are some in the books that are letters written by the apostles (WRITTEN BY MEN).  But there is this whole big thing about the old rules being broken and to love your neighbor regardless of their faults that was said by some hippie with long hair named Jesus or some such name that most of my fellow Christians seem to enjoy ignoring.
For something that fundamentally teaches peace and love thy neighbor, religion (Judeo-christian) seems to be overly preoccupied with verses that promote hatred, inhumanity violence and divisiveness.
 
^ Anton, I guarantee I know the bible just about well as anybody on here, I studied it for 2 years of my life. (I don't mean went to church only, I mean straight up studied the book and had tests over it).

There's no other meaning you're missing. Leviticus was meant to govern moses's people. The idea is that Jesus came and told the Pharisees to love God with all your heart, love your people, and accept me as your God, rather than blindly follow these ancient rules to discriminate against others with.

So according to that AT WORST the rule against homosexuality shouldn't make anyone less intolerable to it, if not outright ignored. It still makes no sense to condemn somebody using these old rules, while conveniently ignoring all other rules.

This type of behavior is exactly what Jesus scolded the Pharisees for and called them out for being fake Christians.
 
Originally Posted by LiveFree

^ Anton, I guarantee I know the bible just about well as anybody on here, I studied it for 2 years of my life. (I don't mean went to church only, I mean straight up studied the book and had tests over it).

There's no other meaning you're missing. Leviticus was meant to govern moses's people. The idea is that Jesus came and told the Pharisees to love God with all your heart, love your people, and accept me as your God, rather than blindly follow these ancient rules to discriminate against others with.

So according to that AT WORST the rule against homosexuality shouldn't make anyone less intolerable to it, if not outright ignored. It still makes no sense to condemn somebody using these old rules, while conveniently ignoring all other rules.

This type of behavior is exactly what Jesus scolded the Pharisees for and called them out for being fake Christians.

Bingo, this is my interpretation of the bible as well.....I'm just waiting for onhollowedground to make his great revelation, with better grammar I hope.



i would also like to know what his stance on homosexuality is
 
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