NBA Legacy Thread, vol Update Resumes

Discussion in 'Sports & Training' started by CP1708, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. CP1708

    CP1708

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    Welcome.  We could potentially be without basketball for a while which is sad since this has been one of, if not THEE best seasons in NBA history. 


    That said, we have some guys that are finishing up their career resumes/legacies as well as people entering new chapters into their bio's.  So I thought we would go thru the players that matter and look at what was accomplished this year.  You can project ahead, review what you have seen, slot guys in top __ what ever number you choose, top 10, top 20, top 50 all time, whatever you want to do. 


    Now, this stuff can be touchy, so we want grown ups only at the table.  The best quotes will be selected and copy/pasted under spoilers for the players that are being referenced in the OP, this will give a comprehensive look from our NT experts as well as some stats that can be dug up, career lists, etc etc. 


    If you have suggestions you would like me to add, post them up, I'll talk to some people and we'll see what we can do.  I'm not alone in this, I have forewarned several NT regs of this thread, I will be looking towards them for input on ideas. 


    *Now remember, we are not going to be updating Chris Duhon's career and @#$% in here, this is big boy NBA basketball, top shelf only.  [​IMG]



    Players we'll be working with. 


    Shaquille O'Neal

    Steve Nash

    Tim Duncan

    Kevin Garnett

    Ray Allen

    Paul Pierce

    Kobe Bryant

    Dirk

    Jason Kidd

    Lebron James

    D Wade




    Kids like D12, Chris Paul, D-Rose, and Durant will not be addressed in here.  They can be mentioned, or brought up, but no need to go thru their career, they are all just getting started, tho clearly they all had outstanding postseasons individually as well as their teams for a couple of them.  We'll all be long gone by the time their resumes need to be looked at.  [​IMG]


    Questions that can be asked/answered, looked ahead to, projected, etc etc.


    Big 3 in Boston, is 1 title a success, or failure for their collective careers? 

    Where will Nash end up to finish his career, in a chase for a title?

    Shaq's legacy

    Is Duncan done adding to his impressive resume?

    Does Kobe have one last run in him?

    Dirk and Kidd......TBA

    Bron and Wade.......TBA



    I found a top 11 all time player list from Brousard during the playoffs on Twitter, I'll post it here as a reference, along with Simmons Pyramid numbers.  (If you know of any other media member lists, let me know, I'll put them with these)


    MJ

    Magic

    Kareem

    Wilt

    Bird

    Kobe

    Shaq

    Russell

    Oscar

    Hakeem

    Duncan


    The Bill Simmons Pyramid (all time list with a fancy name [​IMG])

    Spoiler [+]
    MJ

    Russell

    Kareem

    Magic

    Bird

    Wilt
    Kobe

    Duncan


    West

    Oscar

    Hakeem
    Shaq

    Moses

    Havlicek

    Elgin

    Julius

    Pettit

    Malone

    Barkley
    Lebron

    Cousy
    Garnett

    Isiah

    Pippen

    Stockton

    Rick Barry

    Bill Walton.  [​IMG]

    Admiral

    Iverson

    Willis Reed

    Cowens

    Frazier

    Sam Jones

    Iceman Gervin

    McHale

    Mikan
    Dirk

    Nash


    Ewing

    Payton

    Unseld
    Kidd

    Drexler

    Thurmond

    DeBusschere

    Hal Greer

    Cunningham

    Worthy

    Elvin Hayes

    Dolph Schayes

    Bill Sharman

    Dennis Johnson
    Wade

    Pierce


    Nique

    Arizin

    Heinsohn

    Bernard King

    Robert Parish

    Nate Archibald

    McAdoo

    Reggie

    Ray

    Jerry Lucas

    Alex English

    Dantley

    Pearl Monroe

    Pistol Pete

    Rodman

    David Thompson

    Lenny Wilk

    Webber

    Moncrief

    Dumars
    TMac



    This is his top 75 all time.  He mentioned and made room within his top 96 or so for D12, CP3, and Durant, couple more years, I am more than sure we will be placing them in here somewhere.  Only other active dude worth noting was Vince, he had him at 83 I believe. 



    The Slam top 100 All Time

     

    Spoiler [+]
    1. Micahel Jordan

    2. Wilt Chamberlain

    3. Bill Russell

    4. Shaquille O'Neal

    5. Oscar Robertson

    6. Magic Johnson

    7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    8. Tim Duncan

    9. Larry Bird

    10. Kobe Bryant

    11. Jerry West

    12. Elgin Baylor

    13. Hakeem Olajuwon

    14. Bob Pettit

    15. Moses Malone

    16. Julius Erving

    17. John Havlicek

    18. Karl Malone

    19. Isiah Thomas

    20. Charles Barkley

    21. Rick Barry

    22. John Stockton

    23. Elvin Hayes

    24. Bob Cousy

    25. David Robinson

    26. Kevin McHale

    27. Scottie Pippen

    28. Jason Kidd

    29. George Mikan

    30. Kevin Garnett

    31. LeBron James

    32. Willis Reed

    33. Wes Unseld

    34. Nate Thurmond

    35. Dolph Schayes

    36. Walt Frazier

    37. Patrick Ewing

    38. Jerry Lucas

    39. Gary Payton

    40. Allen Iverson

    41. Billy Cunningham

    42. Clyde Drexler

    43. Dominique Wilkins

    44. Dave Cowens

    45. George Gervin

    46. Bob McAdoo

    47. Earl Monroe

    48. Dennis Rodman

    49. Dwyane Wade

    50. Steve Nash

    51. Walt Bellamy

    52. Tiny Archibald

    53. Dennis Johnson

    54. Reggie Miller

    55. Dirk Nowitzki

    56. Connie Hawkins

    57. Dave Bing

    58. James Worthy

    59. Hal Greer

    60. Pistol Pete Maravich

    61. Jack Twyman

    62. Bob Lanier

    63. David Thompson

    64. Joe Fulks

    65. Sam Jones

    66. Gus Johnson

    67. Robert Parish

    68. Tommy Heinsohn

    69. Bernard King

    70. Bill Sharman

    71. Paul Arizin

    72. Lenny Wilkens

    73. Zo Mourning

    74. Bill Walton

    75. Neil Johnston

    76. Dave DeBusschere

    77. Paul Pierce

    78. Joe Dumars

    79. Ray Allen

    80. Chris Webber

    81. Ed Macauley

    82. Alex English

    83. Adrian Dantley

    84. Artis Gilmore

    85. Cliff Hagan

    86. Dwight Howard

    87. Tim Hardaway

    88. Chris Mullin

    89. Mitch Richmond

    90. Sidney Moncrief

    91. Bobby Dandridge

    92. Bob Love

    93. Jim Pollard

    94. Spencer Haywood

    95. Dikembe Mutombo

    96. Pau Gasol

    97. Tracy McGrady

    98. Grant Hill

    99. Vince Carter

    100. Buck Williams

     




    My own personal top dozen players or so of all time.  Again, this from CP1708

    MJ

    Magic

    Kareem

    Russell

    Bird

    Kobe

    Duncan

    Shaq

    Wilt

    Oscar

    West

    Dream



    Nash

    Spoiler [+]
    16K points, almost 10K assists, 2K playoff points, and top 5 or so all time playoff assists.  2 MVP's and 3 all NBA first teams. 

    No Finals apperances

    No playoffs this year for Nash, so he didn't have the chance to upgrade some of his numbers.  Solid career so far, but he needs a big finish to really elevate his status. 

    Bill Simmons Pyramid had him in the 40th slot or so all time.  A nice finish to his career may move him up a couple slots, but I don't see him movin to much further. 

    He should be traded next year, but not sure yet where he might land. 

    3 Top 3 MVP finishes

    7x All Star

    Projected Years left, 1-2

    2012 Update, just a short regular season, no all NBA teams, no real huge milestones, no all star, no playoffs, no real update.











    Shaq


    Spoiler [+]
    What a career.  [​IMG]

    4 Titles, 1 MVP, 3 Finals MVP's, 8 All NBA first teams.  28,500 points, 13K rebounds, 5K+ playoff points, 2500 playoff rebounds,

    6 Finals apperances

    Top 5 in scoring both regular season and postseason.

    He wasn't able to do too much this year due to age and injuries, but it won't take away from his legacy at all. 

    Simmons has him in the 11-12 range of his pyramid.  Brousard at 7.

    Shaq was a beast in his day, but my feeling is he left some numbers/accomplishments on the table.  He didn't kill himself for the NBA like some did.  Better work ethic, and he could have added another title or two, as well as a TON more stats.  He was just that good. 

    5 Top 3 MVP finishes

    15x All Star

    Recently Retired










    KG


    Spoiler [+]
    1 Title, 1 MVP, 4 NBA first teams, 8 NBA defensive teams.

    2 Finals apperances

    23K points, just under 13K rebounds, almost 5K assists, just a ridiculous amount of stats here.  2K playoff points, 1,000+ rebounds and almost 500 assists in the playoffs. 

    IMO has about 2 years left at solid level, but no longer elite level.  He could finish out some nice numbers to his career, but they need a lot of help to make a last run at a title next year. 

    Simmons has him in the 21-22 range of his pyramid.  Top 5 PF of the game in my book, but I feel like he left some gas in the tank for his career honestly.  There was a lot of go-to stuff that followed him in his career

    1DPOY

    4 Top 3 MVP finishes

    14x All Star

    Projected years left, 2



     

    KG was never ghost in most 4th quarters in Minny. The knock is/was clutch shots. That is, the very last seconds of an entire game. I'll agree that he lacks those last minute beaters on his resume, but like you said in the rest of your sentence, he still did everything, and we do mean EVERYTHING else needed for his team to win. The guy had much less help than his counterparts (Duncan and Dirk). He made Wally an All-Star for crying out loud.


    His abilities were greater than what his team had to offer. Unless he had a shooter on his team that could routinely nail down three's, he was so much less effective because of the constant double and triple teams. He had to kick it out. Not to mention the lack of high quality PG's he played with. Terrell Brandon on the decline of his career, but even he deferred to forcing KG make things happen on triple teams. Billups used KG to resurrect his career then he bounced. Outside of Brandon and Cassel, there's not a soul. He took a lineup of Troy Hudson, Wally, Rasho Nesterovic, and Joe Smith to the playoffs, whereas Dirk had guys like Finley and Nash.


    And KG took his teams to the playoffs. They'd just always lose in the first round. After eight consecutive playoff appearances, his last two years in Minnesota were with guys no better than those he had like the lineup I mentioned above. It wasn't a KG problem, it was a Management (McHale) problem.


    However, after all this, He will probably end up the third best forward of this particular era behind both Duncan and Dirk. Garnett is close to the end and Dirk still has a few good years to continue is resume. It's a good argument between the two, but it's hard not to take Dirk over KG at this point and projecting to any point in the near future.












    Pierce

     

    Spoiler [+]
      1 Title, and 1 Finals MVP

      2 Finals apperances

    22 K points, 6K rebounds, and 3900 assists.  Playoffs, 2700, 800, 500. 

    Pierce I feel the opposite of KG and Shaq.  I think that Paul will have squeezed every ounce of his career into his resume, he doesn't miss a ton of games, he plays hard, he's had a very solid, very underrated career. 

    Simmons had him in the 54th all time slot.  He's a Celtics fan though, so that could be a tad high.  But, he still has time to get to 25K points, maybe another playoff run to add some numbers there, he certainly could be 50ish type guy.  See what some others think. 

    0 Top 3 MVP finishes

    10x All Star

    Projected years left,  2-3

    Solid playoff run once again, numbers updated, the big 3 run may or may not live on next season
















    Ray

    Spoiler [+]
    1 Title

    2 Finals apperances

    23K points, 4850 boards, 4K assists, and the all time leading 3 point shooter, and possibly the greatest shooter ever.  Playoff wise, 2300 points, 500 rebounds, just under 400 assists.

    Again, to me Ray has gotten everything from his career.  He will have nothing left in his tank when he is done, and the way he plays, he could give us 2-3 more solid years.  He doesn't have the list of achievements a lot of these other guys have, so he can't really be mentioned as one of the better players all time, but he has been a joy to watch play, plays hard, and has been very underrated his whole time as well next to other great SG's in the league during his era. 

    Lot of comparisons between him and Reggie, to me, I ride with Ray, but I can hear arguments either way. 

    0 Top 3 MVP finishes

    10x All Star

    Projected years left, 3




     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
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  2. CP1708

    CP1708

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    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  3. darth dnzy

    darth dnzy

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    --Good idea to appreciate the closing era CP.
    --Dont be surprised if it becomes a Kobe vs Bron thread though.
     
  4. darth dnzy

    darth dnzy

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    --Good idea to appreciate the closing era CP.
    --Dont be surprised if it becomes a Kobe vs Bron thread though.
     
  5. night marcher01

    night marcher01 Banned

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    Fixed.
     
  6. night marcher01

    night marcher01 Banned

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    Fixed.
     
  7. addict4sneakers

    addict4sneakers

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    Dirk should be discussed as the 2nd best PF of all time behind Duncan.

    consider:

    25 ppg and 10 rbg career playoff average
    11 straight playoff appearances
    regular season MVP award
    2006 finals appearance
    this historic run he is having this playoff series

    and IF they win the finals this year, you have to talk about him doing what Malone couldn't do
     
  8. addict4sneakers

    addict4sneakers

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    Dirk should be discussed as the 2nd best PF of all time behind Duncan.

    consider:

    25 ppg and 10 rbg career playoff average
    11 straight playoff appearances
    regular season MVP award
    2006 finals appearance
    this historic run he is having this playoff series

    and IF they win the finals this year, you have to talk about him doing what Malone couldn't do
     
  9. airmaxpenny1

    airmaxpenny1

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    He is undoubtedly squarely in the Barkley/Malone group and I'd put him ahead if they win this year.  I know people hate it when anyone who played from before 1980 gets brought up but I think him and Bob Pettit are pretty close in career impact/stats.  Regardless Dirk is top 20 now and there should be no question he is ahead of Garnett for 2nd best PF of this generation.
     
  10. airmaxpenny1

    airmaxpenny1

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    He is undoubtedly squarely in the Barkley/Malone group and I'd put him ahead if they win this year.  I know people hate it when anyone who played from before 1980 gets brought up but I think him and Bob Pettit are pretty close in career impact/stats.  Regardless Dirk is top 20 now and there should be no question he is ahead of Garnett for 2nd best PF of this generation.
     
  11. CP1708

    CP1708

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    Just going off the Simmons Pyramid from last year (after he edited it again) he had KG at 22, and Dirk at 38.  You think he jumps all the way into the top 20 all time if he finishes this? 

    There are a few ways to look at and debate a career, JD and I have talked about a couple instances before, you can do the longevity route, player A plays 17 years and player B 13.  Or you can do peak years.  A 4-5 year stretch where a player was simply incredible, but couldn't sustain it for a long time.  Think T-Mac, or Vince. 

    KG and Dirk, I would have to go back and look, but wasn't KG's "prime" higher, whereas Dirk may be finishing off his career a little bit better than KG in his later years?  Something we'll need to look at as we move along. 

    Me personally, I have Dirk in my imaginary top 25, I'll have to sit down after the finals and put him squarely somewhere and see how it looks. 
     
  12. CP1708

    CP1708

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    Just going off the Simmons Pyramid from last year (after he edited it again) he had KG at 22, and Dirk at 38.  You think he jumps all the way into the top 20 all time if he finishes this? 

    There are a few ways to look at and debate a career, JD and I have talked about a couple instances before, you can do the longevity route, player A plays 17 years and player B 13.  Or you can do peak years.  A 4-5 year stretch where a player was simply incredible, but couldn't sustain it for a long time.  Think T-Mac, or Vince. 

    KG and Dirk, I would have to go back and look, but wasn't KG's "prime" higher, whereas Dirk may be finishing off his career a little bit better than KG in his later years?  Something we'll need to look at as we move along. 

    Me personally, I have Dirk in my imaginary top 25, I'll have to sit down after the finals and put him squarely somewhere and see how it looks. 
     
  13. noblekane

    noblekane

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    dirk is kinda hard to place. hes not the traditional type of PF.
     
  14. noblekane

    noblekane

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    dirk is kinda hard to place. hes not the traditional type of PF.
     
  15. freeze

    freeze

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    I love this idea.


    personally, I feel kobe should be in that top 5, somewhere. I dont want to argue whom to drop off lol, but imo, being the 'air' apparent has to count for some. And then his numbers are ridiculous. Not to mention each year he's taking somebody's spot on some list. In my eyes, the 2 best players to ever play the game were mj and kb, just because they understood not only the physics of thesport, how to score at will, but also the mental aspects, of when to score and when to defer. Not to mention, in their primes, they were unguardable. Now of course, that's not to be biased, as many of the top players have some of these attributes as well, but those 2 pretty much had the full scale covered in what they could do. You knew every time they touched the court your team was in trouble. You knew didnt matter how many you went up, 5 minutes left in the 4th, you could still lose the game. These two students of the game brought a determination, a hunger for blood that had not been seen before, or since so far. Of course no man is perfect, and sure, both have made their share of silly decisions on the court, but from the perspective of a perimeter, wing player, it doesnt get much more perfect than these guys.
     
  16. freeze

    freeze

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    I love this idea.


    personally, I feel kobe should be in that top 5, somewhere. I dont want to argue whom to drop off lol, but imo, being the 'air' apparent has to count for some. And then his numbers are ridiculous. Not to mention each year he's taking somebody's spot on some list. In my eyes, the 2 best players to ever play the game were mj and kb, just because they understood not only the physics of thesport, how to score at will, but also the mental aspects, of when to score and when to defer. Not to mention, in their primes, they were unguardable. Now of course, that's not to be biased, as many of the top players have some of these attributes as well, but those 2 pretty much had the full scale covered in what they could do. You knew every time they touched the court your team was in trouble. You knew didnt matter how many you went up, 5 minutes left in the 4th, you could still lose the game. These two students of the game brought a determination, a hunger for blood that had not been seen before, or since so far. Of course no man is perfect, and sure, both have made their share of silly decisions on the court, but from the perspective of a perimeter, wing player, it doesnt get much more perfect than these guys.
     
  17. T0INE

    T0INE formerly toine2983

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    Great thread idea. [​IMG]

    This thread is going to be chaos though when it comes to ranking LeBron and Wade. [​IMG]
     
  18. T0INE

    T0INE formerly toine2983

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    Great thread idea. [​IMG]

    This thread is going to be chaos though when it comes to ranking LeBron and Wade. [​IMG]
     
  19. JD617

    JD617

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    Edit: Never mind, I'm gonna hold off on that for now.
     
  20. JD617

    JD617

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    Edit: Never mind, I'm gonna hold off on that for now.
     
  21. dt43

    dt43

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    Dirk, Wade, Lebron, and Kidds legacies still hang in the balance, you couldn't wait a couple days for the Finals to be over?
     
  22. dt43

    dt43

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    Dirk, Wade, Lebron, and Kidds legacies still hang in the balance, you couldn't wait a couple days for the Finals to be over?
     
  23. CP1708

    CP1708

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  24. CP1708

    CP1708

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  25. Moheezy

    Moheezy formerly mizzoe33

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    Great thread, you overlooked KG's defensive player of the year award in 07-08. Might want to fix that.