New York Yankees Official Thread - at Jays, 12-4

I was blown away after the first HR. I didn’t even know how to feel after the second. I just stared at my TV for a few minutes.
 
Severino hurt his leg in a rehab start. No idea what it is but looked like an Achilles issue. I pray it isn’t.
 
I would say the blame goes one step higher than Cashman with Steinbrenner.

Our organizational structure is subpar, makes developing talent difficult. Because it’s not a priority, the money isn’t being spent on it. And if you won’t spend on development, then you need to spend on free agency. If you look at the last 5 years, we have only a few guys who have any stretches of being productive that we’ve developed.
 
dblplay1212 said:
Not sure you can blame much of this on him. We have a solid team on paper. Lots of injuries and the healthy ones are playing like ****.
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All those penny pinching trades that we gave up half our farm system for when we most likely could’ve packaged them for legit better players. Happ, Garcia,Paxton, Gray, Stanton etc. Only trade Cash really won was Gleyber and Gio. And if you sign and trade players that are always hurt or coming off big injuries to try and save a dollar you expect lots of injuries so why wouldn’t Cash be held accountable? Cash goes for these low risk high rewards way to often lately, this is the Yankees not the Marlins franchise. We essentially have 200 mil tied to Stanton and Hicks with Judge in line for a huge payday, no sure thing at catcher or 1st, Gio’s career year is behind him and 300mil to a number 1 starter who’s probably going to see his numbers decrease due to this whole foreign substance witch hunt.
 
donewithjs said:
All those penny pinching trades that we gave up half our farm system for when we most likely could’ve packaged them for legit better players. Happ, Garcia,Paxton, Gray, Stanton etc. Only trade Cash really won was Gleyber and Gio. And if you sign and trade players that are always hurt or coming off big injuries to try and save a dollar you expect lots of injuries so why wouldn’t Cash be held accountable? Cash goes for these low risk high rewards way to often lately, this is the Yankees not the Marlins franchise. We essentially have 200 mil tied to Stanton and Hicks with Judge in line for a huge payday, no sure thing at catcher or 1st, Gio’s career year is behind him and 300mil to a number 1 starter who’s probably going to see his numbers decrease due to this whole foreign substance witch hunt.
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Hicks isn't much money. Like $10m a year? I mean it sucks but it's not like Ellsbury was.

Voit was a great find. He just can't stay healthy. He's a top tier player when healthy.

Same with Stanton. We got him for nothing. That was a steal, but again, he's hurt a lot.

We haven't given up anyone thay turned out to be really good. The guys you're talking about were acquired for low level prospects. We weren't packaging those for elite players.

Our biggest issue by far has been health for years now. We changed medical staffs before last season but it's still the same thing. Maybe bc we have a massive team and big guys get hurt more idk. There has to be something to it though bc it's an issue every year for like 5 years now.

That and Hal being worried about the cap. Those two things have played a bigger role than Cashman, imo.
 
g-time g-time must be Cashmans NT account. Of course your going to get Stanton for nothing if he has a 300 mil contract and is always hurt, you’re just looking to dump that contract on someone. Hicks 10 mil a year absolutely does hurt when we are bent on staying under the cap and he never plays. Hicks and Stanton are a Big reason why we keep resigning Gardy and not make a bold move. And if you look at it, it’s almost the same players hurt every year, not sure how much a different medical staff could help people who get injured doing normal baseball activities . And Sheffield was our number 1 prospect and we gave up 2 of our top 8 for Gray so saying they haven’t panned out doesn’t mean they weren’t bad trades. If you trade away 3-4 of your top 10 prospects and a bunch of top 20 prospects in a couples years time frame i would expect you’d have something to show for it.
 
donewithjs said:
All those penny pinching trades that we gave up half our farm system for when we most likely could’ve packaged them for legit better players. Happ, Garcia,Paxton, Gray, Stanton etc. Only trade Cash really won was Gleyber and Gio. And if you sign and trade players that are always hurt or coming off big injuries to try and save a dollar you expect lots of injuries so why wouldn’t Cash be held accountable? Cash goes for these low risk high rewards way to often lately, this is the Yankees not the Marlins franchise. We essentially have 200 mil tied to Stanton and Hicks with Judge in line for a huge payday, no sure thing at catcher or 1st, Gio’s career year is behind him and 300mil to a number 1 starter who’s probably going to see his numbers decrease due to this whole foreign substance witch hunt.
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This is all over the place.

All of those trades we made that you listed, we either won, was a wash, or it meant nothing to either team. In 4 of the 5 trades you listed, we got one of the best guys that was available on the market at the time. Or is your suggestion to continuously hold guys for the right person to be on the market. Even if you wanted to judge the trades on today's standards. Not a single one of the guys we traded would be anything here: Billy McKinny, Brandon Drury, Dustin Fowler, Jorge Mateo, Dietrich Enns, Justus Sheffield, Dom Thomas-Williams, Erik Swanson, Jorge Guzman, Jose Devers.
Zack Littel, James Kaprielian & Starlin Castro are the only ones close to being on the roster. Littel would be a middle reliever, Kap would be end of rotation (maybe), and Castro would be a utility bench player behind Gleyber and DJ and Gio. Or at 3B instead of Gio, which would be a wash offensively, and a downgrade defensively.

Each year they swing for the names available. You're gonna say don't trade for Paxton for an at best 3rd SP if he develops completely, and career minor leagues? Same deal with Kap, Mateo and Fowler for Sonny Gray. Kap isn't a front end starter because of the way pitching is evolving, and Gray was a front end guy at the time, and he bombed here. But both are trades that you make every time.
Your stance is basically: How dare you trade 3rd/4th SP ceiling guys for established front end starters? We need to only trade for Aces.

We can go on and on about the Staton trade, and what's owed. Stanton has been having a productive year. He had a two week quad injury.

No sure thing 1B? Luke Voit has been extremely good since he's come here. Another trade Cashman won.

I won't bother on the Catcher talk. Gary has been good this year, end of story. Realmuto wasn't leaving Philly, and paying $23mil a year to a catcher is nonsense.

You talk about Penny pinching and then get mad at the Stanton trade, and complain about Cole. Cashman is in a lose-lose by your standards.

Did we need Stanton at the time? No.
Is there ever a time where you say No to that trade with the players we dealt? No.

Hicks deal is what it is. The years are the problem, not the salary.

Also Cash isn't the one who sets the payroll. He's told what it is by Hal going into the offseason, and gets very little wiggle room. That's why Didi is gone, and why Tanaka is gone. Because of the payroll he's been given.
Would I have kept Tanaka over Kluber and Tailion? Absolutely. It was an incredibly bad risk. But if you think Cash has a blank check every year, you're fooling yourself. He hasn't since at least 2012.

It isn't even our pitching that is the problem this year, it's out hitting.

DJ has been healthy, Gleyber has been healthy, Gio has been healthy, Judge has been healthy. Clint has been healthy.
Gary has been healthy. Stanton has been productive and missed two weeks.

That's 7 guys, 6 of which have been available every day, and 1 who missed 2 weeks.

They are not all hitting at once. There's no consistency.
 
Anyone think part of the problem is coaching and all these dumbass analytics? They keep pushing that **** and it hasn’t worked.

Stanton body breaking down from steroids BUT he went off in the playoffs last year.

Judge always hurt too.

Clint’s bat went to ****.

Pitching isn’t good enough.

DJ hasn’t been putting up his crazy numbers.

We lead the league in hitting into double plays and most outs by base runners.
 
Just for humor sake 2021 AL Team Stats

Batting:
BA - 9th
OBP - 4th
SLG - 11th
2B - 14th (1 away from last)
3B - 14th
HR - 5th (13 behind)
R - 14th
TB - 10th
BB - 3rd
K - 11th

Pitching
ERA - 3rd
QS - T-4th
WHIP - 2nd
OBA - 3rd
HR - 5th
BB - 1st
K - 5th
 
Hahahaha said:
Anyone think part of the problem is coaching and all these dumbass analytics? They keep pushing that **** and it hasn’t worked.
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No. Best teams in the league employ it heavily. We just are not good at it because we don't invest in it. I have to look for it, but there's a video about why the Dodgers organization is so good at developing players, and finding the right guys, and it has to do with a top down uniform approach to analytics and consistency across all levels.
 
Not sure why I was called out when pretty much everyone disagreed with you but ok, you’re in your feels.

Hahahaha said:
Anyone think part of the problem is coaching and all these dumbass analytics? They keep pushing that **** and it hasn’t worked.

Stanton body breaking down from steroids BUT he went off in the playoffs last year.

Judge always hurt too.

Clint’s bat went to ****.

Pitching isn’t good enough.

DJ hasn’t been putting up his crazy numbers.

We lead the league in hitting into double plays and most outs by base runners.
Click to expand...

I can get on board with some of the coaching. Not so much the analytics. I believe they could be much, much better in that department. But as far as coaching, I mean Sonny Gray was brought up and he’s a prime example of coaching not utilizing him correctly. While with us they wanted him to rely heavily on his fastball when he’s relied heavily on his off speed the majority of his career and had his most success. He left us and the very next year had almost his best year of his career.

Prospects are also hit and miss. I’m not going to be totally upset when some are traded away to try to improve the team. And Justus Sheffield? Lol man barely looks like a 4th or 5th man on a bad M’s rotation.
 
essential1 said:
This is all over the place.

All of those trades we made that you listed, we either won, was a wash, or it meant nothing to either team. In 4 of the 5 trades you listed, we got one of the best guys that was available on the market at the time. Or is your suggestion to continuously hold guys for the right person to be on the market. Even if you wanted to judge the trades on today's standards. Not a single one of the guys we traded would be anything here: Billy McKinny, Brandon Drury, Dustin Fowler, Jorge Mateo, Dietrich Enns, Justus Sheffield, Dom Thomas-Williams, Erik Swanson, Jorge Guzman, Jose Devers.
Zack Littel, James Kaprielian & Starlin Castro are the only ones close to being on the roster. Littel would be a middle reliever, Kap would be end of rotation (maybe), and Castro would be a utility bench player behind Gleyber and DJ and Gio. Or at 3B instead of Gio, which would be a wash offensively, and a downgrade defensively.

Each year they swing for the names available. You're gonna say don't trade for Paxton for an at best 3rd SP if he develops completely, and career minor leagues? Same deal with Kap, Mateo and Fowler for Sonny Gray. Kap isn't a front end starter because of the way pitching is evolving, and Gray was a front end guy at the time, and he bombed here. But both are trades that you make every time.
Your stance is basically: How dare you trade 3rd/4th SP ceiling guys for established front end starters? We need to only trade for Aces.

We can go on and on about the Staton trade, and what's owed. Stanton has been having a productive year. He had a two week quad injury.

No sure thing 1B? Luke Voit has been extremely good since he's come here. Another trade Cashman won.

I won't bother on the Catcher talk. Gary has been good this year, end of story. Realmuto wasn't leaving Philly, and paying $23mil a year to a catcher is nonsense.

You talk about Penny pinching and then get mad at the Stanton trade, and complain about Cole. Cashman is in a lose-lose by your standards.

Did we need Stanton at the time? No.
Is there ever a time where you say No to that trade with the players we dealt? No.

Hicks deal is what it is. The years are the problem, not the salary.

Also Cash isn't the one who sets the payroll. He's told what it is by Hal going into the offseason, and gets very little wiggle room. That's why Didi is gone, and why Tanaka is gone. Because of the payroll he's been given.
Would I have kept Tanaka over Kluber and Tailion? Absolutely. It was an incredibly bad risk. But if you think Cash has a blank check every year, you're fooling yourself. He hasn't since at least 2012.

It isn't even our pitching that is the problem this year, it's out hitting.

DJ has been healthy, Gleyber has been healthy, Gio has been healthy, Judge has been healthy. Clint has been healthy.
Gary has been healthy. Stanton has been productive and missed two weeks.

That's 7 guys, 6 of which have been available every day, and 1 who missed 2 weeks.

They are not all hitting at once. There's no consistency.
Click to expand...
Ok Hal, Paxton was a top of the rotation guy for 1 season and was always hurt, Luke Voit is always hurt, hence the no guarantee at 1st. Stanton trade is a no brainer if George was still boss so his contract wouldn’t stop the spending. I’m a fan of both Voit and Stanton. Everyone in Baseball knew about the Cole rumors and I was still happy to sign him but his contract is ridiculous if you’re not going to spend over the cap. And I’m still standing by that we could’ve packaged more of the prospects together for an impact player. And because Gary is playing good so far he’s a sure thing now ***** :lol: I swear some of you are on The Yankees payroll. All the moves are non factors if you’re willing to spend like the Dodgers but since we are no longer George’s Yankees some of those moves ****ed us for years to come.
 
Again, so you’re given a set budget and a quarter of your budget goes to Stanton, Hicks and Cole but Those were smart moves on a set budget?
 
donewithjs said:
Again, so you’re given a set budget and a quarter of your budget goes to Stanton, Hicks and Cole but Those were smart moves on a set budget?
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Stanton and Cole have been good. Hicks salary isn't a huge deal. We're paying Britton and Kluber more this year. Does it suck? Sure, but don't overblow how big of a deal it is. Every team has a $10m guy doing nothing.
 
If we're wanting to blame a staff member, I'm going with Thames. The offense just has not reached well to him. May not even be his fault but he's the hitting coach.
 
Ever since Cole took the stand dude ain't been the same :lol:

Dude's fingers are smooth as eggs now, he's got no "english " on the ball ...
 
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