NT'ers in Investment Banking, How can I get down?

[north dade represent]

"Throwed"

Thanks, man. I appreciate the time you put into this post. I'll definitely print it out and make some evaluations along with other advice I've gotten. I'm not going to say what grad school I went to, but it wasn't top 50. I graduated with a 3.4 and got to a second interview with Citigroup in NYC, but didn't get the gig. I was like "It's aiight, I'll do the corporate finance thing" but didn't realize how wack it was and now I'm evaluating my career options.

I don't mind the hearing the bluntness of what my situation is, I have a nice career going right now, but when you aren't doing something you are passionate about, you wanna give it one last go. I'm like a perennial minor leaguer trying to get a shot at the bigs.

Edit: By the way 200K at a BB might be enough to justify dropping 80K to get that Masters in Econ.

 

[kicksnbeats]

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

The thing you need to realize is that your not supposed to go to business school solely for the education. You go for the networking and branding. You're in a finance class for example with guys who spent 100 hours per week at Morgan Stanley and then KKR looking at excel models....you think they never done a DCF before? 

The only guys who actually learn $@@% in b-school are career changers like the Chevron Engineer I mentioned earlier. The guys who wouldn't know an accretion deal unless the Wall Street Journal explicitly told them it was. The networking aspect is what gets you that job on the street and if you don't go to a top 10 b-school, it becomes exponentially harder to get the job. Business School = a brand, like a restart button if you went to a non-target school or couldnt get into banking out of undergrad. How many Managing Directors have you seen at top BBs that weren't H/W? It's all about perception.

CO-FREAKIN-SIGN

I swear, most people nowadays think having an MBA from ANY biz school will set you up for a cushy corporate job handed to you on a silver platter.  People need a slap of reality and get that sense of entitlement out of their hard heads.  Go check craigslist or ask an HR rep about how many resumes they've received from unemployed MBAs who haven't been able to find a job after graduation while being 100k+ in debt.  They're slowly becoming a dime a dozen now thanks to diploma mills like University of Phoenix or low ranking univeristies taking Sub 600 GMAT applicants with little work experience.  I'd only go to a non top 20 biz school if you already have a steady job and someone else (your employer, parents, etc) is willing to fund it. 

I only applied to 4 biz schools: Marshall (USC), Anderson (UCLA), Haas (Berkeley) and Stanford since they're all in the top 20, didn't settle for anything less.  Some people really underestimate the networking potential at top schools in comparison to a low ranked school.  You'll establish DEEP connections with not only your classmatess who come from highly successful backgrounds, but your professors as well who, a lot of the times, know some higher ups at top companies.  If your networking game is decent enough (it better be if you're at one of those schools), then landing an internship and full time offer shouldn't be a problem.  You will almost never see an MBA holder from a T20 jobless after graduation and the ones that are came in with the wrong mindset or had some other issues of their own (drugs or severe personality problems are usually the case).

Location and program specialty also plays a huge part of getting into Wall Street or any other sector that interests you.  For example, if you want to do i-banking at Goldman, Morgan Stanley, etc chances are the Wharton, Stern or Harvard grad has a better chance than the person from Georgia Tech.  However, the GTech or Sloan grad has a higher chance of getting into middle management at Lockheed or Chevron over other schools that don't have a solid technological rep.  Down here in Socal, Anderson has a lock on the finance sector but Marshall sends a ton of their accounting MBAs to Deloitte and the other Big 4 like it's NOTHING.  One of my buddies over at Marshall is graduating this year with a concentration on accounting and he already has a gig lined up with Pricewater starting at around 80k + a 40k signing bonus with a TON of room to move up. 

Everyone in the corporate world knows networking is the only way to survive and get your foot in the door.  One of my classmates put it best: "business school is just one long %#* job fair"

 

[scarface2k1]

OP,

I will try to add some advice that you may have heard, read in this thread already or something that you did not hear yet.

First off, let me start off by describing my background. I am a senior Economics major at Northeastern University in Boston. We have been ranked #1 for internships for probably as long as the rankings have existed. I did 2 six month internships. One at Merrill Lynch in NYC, working in their operations (back office department) and one working at MFS Investment Management in Boston working in the Advisory Group (revenue generating, front office). I was pushed through as the only non target school candidate (Harvard, MIT, Dartmouth, Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams) for their undergraduate Research job for Equities. As an intern, I studied and sat for the CFA level 1 exam which was by far the hardest, most time consuming time I have ever done in my life. In the end, I ended up not passing the CFA, and the MFS decided not to hire anybody for the 4th position in their undergraduate research position.

As most of all the threads in here has stated, business school and i-banking is about prestige and networking. Luckily for me, Northeastern is a DECENT, undergraduate school, and I have made some great connections throughout my time there which has enabled me to land some interviews.

I hate to be the bearer of bad of news, but its going to next to impossible to land a job at a BB in i-banking. You might want to try to apply for a Product Control job, which is usually in the Finance division but has direct connections to the Trading Desk. They manage PnL and risk exposure and is a pretty good job. A good friend of mine is a Product Controller for the Prop Credit Derivative desk at BofA. she is 24 years old, and will probably bring in 100k this year.

I personally think the investment/asset management side might be easier to break into. You might have have to take a lesser of a role, because as you know, the economy is very tough, and top MBAs or other top performers that may have been let go during the recession, are taking lower on the totem pole jobs just to get a paycheck. You could always apply for a Junior Trader role, I have seen quite a few roles at Morgan Stanley and BarCap, but you will more than likey need to have a Series 7 and 63 already.

Use networking sites such as LinkedIn, to reconnect with people you went to ugrad, and b-school with to see there career progressions, their advice and insight and who they may know. Even if you do meet with somebody, and it doesn't materialize today, you never know what might happen in a couple of months.

As on the front of a Masters in Economics, I am sure you know this, but most Masters in Econ programs are HIGHLY QUANTITATIVE, and want you to have quite a solid understanding of Calculus (probably up Calc 4), Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, Stoactics, Econometrics, just to be able to get through the introductory level graduate Micro and Macro classes. I would suggest that if you do decide to do this, look at good economics programs in major markets of where you want to work, cause most likely, for example, UC San Diego which has an excellent economics program, probably isn't getting many Wall Street banks looking for Masters in Econ students. Besides the ivies, NYU is probably you're best bet. Investment Banking (deals) probably won't be turned on to your Masters in Econ, but i-banking is more about deal making, soft skills rather than Quant Skills, but a trading desk, research group might be interested in the fact you have solid accounting background and an MBA in finance with a masters in Econ which could make you marketable. I would assume it would be more on the fixed income side rather than the equity with a masters in econ, because fixed income is just how fast can you digest macroeconomic data and what decisions can you make.

Look into programs, talk to career counselors, call up econ departments at schools you would be interested in, ask them what places they have placed graduates in and questions of that nature.

I am sure that I left something out, and when I think of it, I will add, I hope this helps, and I wish you the best of luck in your search.

 

[scarface2k1]

OP,

A link that I found that might be useful...

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...aduate-schools/top-economics-schools/rankings

Look at the schools that generally have Banks recruiting for Undergrads and MBA students such as...

Duke, Michigan, NYU, John Hopkins (their International Relations department sends a lot of people to Wall St/Investment Management jobs because of their strength in International Economics program), UT Austin, Virginia, BC, UNC, Vanderbilt and Georgetown.

^ Above list excludes Ivies and is school ranked by US News as top 50 in econ grad programs.


Also, be sure to look at curriculums and courses offered as you will want to take as many financial economics classes as possible.

Again, good luck!

 

[lazyj10]

Some of you need to look further than the lump sum bonus (taxed highest, too, right?) and salary...divide it by hours worked for the entire year....see what your hourly rate amounts to. I'm willing to sacrifice some dough to enjoy my life and do things while the sun is still out.

Accounting, though not nearly as bad is the same way.

 

[lakers242007.losttheunoffica...]

Originally Posted by pullupj8

Originally Posted by lakers242007

dude...you got your mba in finance...and you are on NT asking for advice on how to get into i-banking? is this a joke...???

I am in i-banking, currently working in Toronto for HSBC Capital. I got my MBA from Notre Dame and I used the resources there to get my foot in the door...

I was thinking about asking NT, but I figured the MBA program I paid $100,000 would be a better option..

seriously man..you got an MBA...there are other ways to get a response other then NT. NT is probably your worst option...

Hey, man. I'm a first-year MBA student at ND right now. What year did you graduate?

   Class of 2006...

OP, to give you a less "a-hole" reponse as I did earlier, with an MBA, you can get into intro i-banking. I know that HSBC loves to hire "fresh" MBA's with no experience and you start off at the associate level. The avg salary here for first year associate is about 80,000 and bonus last year was 50,000. (In Canadian dollars..aka same as US..lol)

For all those bashing on it and the hours worked, in my first year working for HSBC Capital Markets I worked an average of 70hr/week.

In my 2nd year, my hours dropped to about 55 hours avg/week.

I am now in my 4th year with HSBC and I work about 50 hours/week. Which is not bad considering the money I get paid during a recession.

You do work your butt off the first year or so, but it does get better.

I got my hook up from ND and they had a great career management centre. They booked me and interview and prepared me for it.

 

[awilliams1]

 

[cornzilla]

Wow this is a very informative thread. Thanks guys.

 

[frankmatthews]

post for latwer

 

[theconditioner]

P.S.....Can you work on Excel and PowerPoint...................withoutusing your mouse?
All day every day!

  I'd challenge anyone on here to an Excel-off.  And win.  Lol.


Pretty good advice in here, btw. 

 

[jcash da kid]

I wonder if I should get my MBA. CPA, MBA, Possible CMA and CISA too. YOUNG MOOLAH!!
Edit: Question how easy or difficult would it be to get into a Top 20 MBA program. Undergrad and Grad at low tier school. (St John's University) Possible going be working at a BIG4. Undergrad Gpa will be a 3.3 Grad will hopefully finish up with a 3.7 atleast. Right now maintaining a 3.82. 

 

[skip2mylou23]

Wait, have you tried applying to i-banks?