NT'ers in Investment Banking, How can I get down?

[north dade represent]

Long story short, I'm 30 years old with an undergrad in Business, and a MBA (concentration in Finance). Coming out of undergrad and grad school I didn't make the cut to get in at a Wall Street firm and took jobs in finance/accounting at Fortune 500 companies. Over the past couple years I've realized that corporate finance isn't what I want to do, and I'm at the point where I want to give it another go to make it on Wall Street. I've always been in tune with equities, and want to work as a Equity Trader or in Asset Management. I've always been passionate about the stocks since high school, and have read dozens of books on the market.  

Problem is, it seems that most investment banks only hire on campus or experienced bankers. I guess I can go back to school and get a Masters in Econ or something, but that's a huge financial gamble. I've studied for the CFA level one. Is there a shot if I pass a couple levels of the CFA exam? If not wall street, can I get a investment management job at a pension fund or insurance company, without having to go back to school?

 

[lakers242007.losttheunoffica...]

dude...you got your mba in finance...and you are on NT asking for advice on how to get into i-banking? is this a joke...???

I am in i-banking, currently working in Toronto for HSBC Capital. I got my MBA from Notre Dame and I used the resources there to get my foot in the door...

I was thinking about asking NT, but I figured the MBA program I paid $100,000 would be a better option..

seriously man..you got an MBA...there are other ways to get a response other then NT. NT is probably your worst option...

 

[kicksnbeats]

I'm currently at Anderson/UCLA for my MBA and let me tell you this straight up: unless you went to Stanford/Harvard/Wharton/some other top business school or have connections that run DEEP, there's no way to get into I-banking, especially in this craphole economy.

 

[frische produkte]

Originally Posted by lakers242007

seriously man..you got an MBA...there are other ways to get a response other then NT. NT is probably your worst option...

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]THIS. All you're gonna read is how you need to be in a top 3 school, have a 3.9-4.0 gpa, and get advice from people who have less than 2 years experience in iBanking

.. Go look elsewhere, sorry to deter you, just being honest.[/color]

 

[producedbythejuice]

2 words: CAREER COUNSELOR

Your MBA program has them. Go to them

 

[pullupj8]

Originally Posted by lakers242007

dude...you got your mba in finance...and you are on NT asking for advice on how to get into i-banking? is this a joke...???

I am in i-banking, currently working in Toronto for HSBC Capital. I got my MBA from Notre Dame and I used the resources there to get my foot in the door...

I was thinking about asking NT, but I figured the MBA program I paid $100,000 would be a better option..

seriously man..you got an MBA...there are other ways to get a response other then NT. NT is probably your worst option...

Hey, man. I'm a first-year MBA student at ND right now. What year did you graduate?

 

[btk]

investment bankers are all going to hell.

 

[north dade represent]

I graduated 4+ years ago, and it's not like NT is the only place I'm asking. I've asked the same question on the Vault and asked a couple people in the business.

But since I knew there were couple IB'ers on the site I just wanted to get their advice. Career counselors at my school are can't help me. They said that those firms are only looking for recent grads.

If you want to know something, you ask everyone that is qualified to answer, and formulate your opinion based on the better responses that you get.

 

[north dade represent]

Originally Posted by kicksNbeats

I'm currently at Anderson/UCLA for my MBA and let me tell you this straight up: unless you went to Stanford/Harvard/Wharton/some other top business school or have connections that run DEEP, there's no way to get into I-banking, especially in this craphole economy.

Thanks for the answer. I'd rather hear something like this than, "Why the hell are you asking NT", like that's the only place I'm going to. It's not like I'm walking into investment bankers on a daily basis, so if there's a website that has a few of them on the site, can it hurt to ask?

 

[vancity74]

I hate to say it but you've basically pigeonholed yourself. Entry level I-bankers are nothing more than pencil pushers and the firms would rather hire someone fresh out of school and eager to work 90 hours a week for next to nothing. They want someone they can take advantage of, not some 30 year old MBA with no relevant job experience.

Good luck.

 

[toy collector123]

Check out WallstreetOasis.com

 

[juicy j 32]

Originally Posted by Vancity74

I hate to say it but you've basically pigeonholed yourself. Entry level I-bankers are nothing more than pencil pushers and the firms would rather hire someone fresh out of school and eager to work 90 hours a week for next to nothing. They want someone they can take advantage of, not some 30 year old MBA with no relevant job experience.

Good luck.

Entry level I-bankers make much much more than next to nothing.

 

[north dade represent]

Originally Posted by Vancity74

I hate to say it but you've basically pigeonholed yourself. Entry level I-bankers are nothing more than pencil pushers and the firms would rather hire someone fresh out of school and eager to work 90 hours a week for next to nothing. They want someone they can take advantage of, not some 30 year old MBA with no relevant job experience.

Good luck.

Yep, I 've been hearing some of that. Most people have said going back to a top 25 school, and getting on as an associate is probably the only way in. I'm not getting another MBA, it would be ******ed to take the same classes twice. Economics is a possibility, but to drop at least 60K, for a degree that will have no value unless you get a specific job, is a risky proposition.

The insurance or pension fund route is also a long shot, but I've heard there's a chance that someone could take a flyer on me if I've passed a couple levels of the CFA.

 

[vancity74]

Originally Posted by Juicy J 32

Originally Posted by Vancity74

I hate to say it but you've basically pigeonholed yourself. Entry level I-bankers are nothing more than pencil pushers and the firms would rather hire someone fresh out of school and eager to work 90 hours a week for next to nothing. They want someone they can take advantage of, not some 30 year old MBA with no relevant job experience.



Good luck.

Entry level I-bankers make much much more than next to nothing.

$80k for 90 hours a week is next to nothing.

 

[biggie62]

Originally Posted by Vancity74

Originally Posted by Juicy J 32

Originally Posted by Vancity74

I hate to say it but you've basically pigeonholed yourself. Entry level I-bankers are nothing more than pencil pushers and the firms would rather hire someone fresh out of school and eager to work 90 hours a week for next to nothing. They want someone they can take advantage of, not some 30 year old MBA with no relevant job experience.



Good luck.

Entry level I-bankers make much much more than next to nothing.

$80k for 90 hours a week is next to nothing.

Really?  My friend makes 60k+ and got a nice 95k bonus and he started last August upon graduation at Barclays.  Check your stats buddy.

 

[akwon510]

$80k base + $60-$120k bonus = not to shabby for a 22 yr old...

 

[shoehead117]

OP just curious, where did you get your bachelor's and MBA from?

 

[marath0n]

Originally Posted by lakers242007

dude...you got your mba in finance...and you are on NT asking for advice on how to get into i-banking? is this a joke...???

I am in i-banking, currently working in Toronto for HSBC Capital. I got my MBA from Notre Dame and I used the resources there to get my foot in the door...

I was thinking about asking NT, but I figured the MBA program I paid $100,000 would be a better option..

seriously man..you got an MBA...there are other ways to get a response other then NT. NT is probably your worst option...

Ouch...

 

[swizzc]

Originally Posted by Vancity74

Originally Posted by Juicy J 32

Originally Posted by Vancity74

I hate to say it but you've basically pigeonholed yourself. Entry level I-bankers are nothing more than pencil pushers and the firms would rather hire someone fresh out of school and eager to work 90 hours a week for next to nothing. They want someone they can take advantage of, not some 30 year old MBA with no relevant job experience.



Good luck.

Entry level I-bankers make much much more than next to nothing.

$80k for 90 hours a week is next to nothing.

 

[marath0n]

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Check out WallstreetOasis.com

GREAT site. Good looking out.

 

[frankl1001]

To put it into perspective, it's basically 2 x 40hr full time job @ 45-50k each

But OP, if you are going for your CFA, look into investment management firms, fund managers, fund of funds managers, investment consulting firms, etc.

 

[me4u2night]

Originally Posted by lakers242007

dude...you got your mba in finance...and you are on NT asking for advice on how to get into i-banking? is this a joke...???

I am in i-banking, currently working in Toronto for HSBC Capital. I got my MBA from Notre Dame and I used the resources there to get my foot in the door...

I was thinking about asking NT, but I figured the MBA program I paid $100,000 would be a better option..

seriously man..you got an MBA...there are other ways to get a response other then NT. NT is probably your worst option...

 

[davidisgodly]

Your grades must suck. I feel your pain.

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by Vancity74

Originally Posted by Juicy J 32

Originally Posted by Vancity74

I hate to say it but you've basically pigeonholed yourself. Entry level I-bankers are nothing more than pencil pushers and the firms would rather hire someone fresh out of school and eager to work 90 hours a week for next to nothing. They want someone they can take advantage of, not some 30 year old MBA with no relevant job experience.



Good luck.

Entry level I-bankers make much much more than next to nothing.

$80k for 90 hours a week is next to nothing.

Who the hell made $80k

. Maybe middle market/regional boutiques.

Bulge Bracket First year IBD Analyst made between 100-120k in 2009 if my memory serves me correct.
70k salary + 30-50k bonus depending on your performance bucket (or how much you suck up to your Managing Directors). Bonuses varied across banks but you get the general idea.

Anyways lets makes some distinctions here...the Term Investment Banking typically relates to Corporate Finance, Sales & Trading, and Research.
 Those 3 departments are the Investment Banking Division. Now, when people use the term "investment banker" they are usually referring to the corporate finance guys...i.e. the guys who do mergers & acquisitions, IPOs, etc.


On to OP, the I-banking position for MBA guys in Investment Banking Corporate Finance is Associate. Yes banks do hire MBAs and many of the Associates HAVE ZERO INVESTMENT BANKING EXPERIENCE. In NYC BB offices, Associates make 100k salary, 50k signing bonus, 100k bonus. 250k all in is pretty average for MBA first years. Yes, let me repeat that number $250,000 at bulge brackets is pretty common.....even in this market. I mean they have to pay these career changers that much otherwise many of them would run to McKinsey, Bain, or Boston Consulting Group and work slightly better hours

Of course, to pull this off the "career changer banker"....you need to come from a top 10 business school. I'm assuming you did not graudate from a top ten business school otherwise this post would not exist. Many associates are career changers. They leverage their soft skills and industry knowledge into coverage groups. For example, someone works for Chevron as an Engineer for 5 years, gets into to Harvard Business School, get out and now hes in Credit Suisse Energy Group

You seem to have done F500 corporate finance work so you might be able to parlay this into an Associate role at a middle market investment bank or maybe a regional boutique. Start cold calling and hitting up b-school connects.  Bulge Bracket is out of the question for now. Get some transactions under your belt, do some networking and maybe you can swing your way to wall street. Corporate Finance i.e. advising clients on deals would be the easiest job for YOU to get with your background.

Trading: This is much harder. You need to show them your PNL.....Profit and Loss daily with your own private accounts. Full disclosure. I mean why should they hire someone your age when they can pick some chumps out of college who wasted their time day-trading for 4 years, managed their school 1MM fund,  and actually know wth LIBOR is. If you actually trade stocks/derivatives, then you should be fine. Do some networking and get into a small firm. Then lateral. A smaller firm will give you a balance sheet faster.

Asset Management: Not considered "investment banking". As the name obviously implies it's basically wealth management for institutional clients or perhaps clients with large assets...but AM and WM are sometimes interchanged....also with the term "private banking".

Anyways, B-schools

The thing you need to realize is that your not supposed to go to business school solely for the education. You go for the networking and branding. You're in a finance class for example with guys who spent 100 hours per week at Morgan Stanley and then KKR looking at excel models....you think they never done a DCF before? 

The only guys who actually learn $@@% in b-school are career changers like the Chevron Engineer I mentioned earlier. The guys who wouldn't know an accretion deal unless the Wall Street Journal explicitly told them it was. The networking aspect is what gets you that job on the street and if you don't go to a top 10 b-school, it becomes exponentially harder to get the job. Business School = a brand, like a restart button if you went to a non-target school or couldnt get into banking out of undergrad. How many Managing Directors have you seen at top BBs that weren't H/W? It's all about perception.



www.wallstreetoasis.com and www.mergersandinquisitions.com/ will be far more help than NT


Cliff Notes: leverage your corporate finance background into a middle market/regional boutique coverage group. Also, I'd read some books and ask bankers what they do so you know what you're getting into. 100 hours per week is iight for 250k/year, but you're 30....not 25.

When you enter investment banking post MBA you make a choice:

Option A: Make more money then most Americans can dream of AND have no life
Option B: Have a life, vacations, and make an average salary doing corporate development at F500

If you chose Option A, then ibanking is for you. Who cares if your staffer assigns you work Christmas Eve....you're balling. Hopefully you make VP in 4 years and get to leave the office at 10pm.

Grim reality: Chances are you might have missed the ball on Banking. You missed undergrad, you missed by going to the wrong type of B-school. Those are the most typical avenues into banking......and when I say banking I mean the corporate finance arm. Again, you need to network. Your skill set to me screams Banker. I don't see Trader or Asset Manager.

P.S.....Can you work on Excel and PowerPoint...................without using your mouse? Since you're applying for an associate position and your 30.....I don't think it matters as much but memorizing short keys is always a plus.

 

[maddenfan04]

It's going to be tough to network your way in, which is the only way your going to get in
How bad you want it is all that matters
You need to set up your story of why you want to be an investment banker now, and thats IF you get interviews

wish I could help you on the networking, but all I know is that you need to call and email everyone that can help you