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Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Wait. 
at GSP being one of the top strikers in the UFC, easily.

Break it down in tiers if you would so I can try to grasp what you're attempting to claim.
I really don't feel like breaking it down in tiers because after Andy you can make your own opinion because of different styles. Andy really is the only one to proficiently combine almost all striking forms in MMA (hell look at Dancing Andy and his capoeira
). Just watch his older fights. Hell watch his fight with Alves and Fitch. People forget how dangerous GSP is standing. He makes every punch and kick count. You don't train with Phil Nurse and Freddie Roach being as intelligent as GSP is and become a decent striker.
 
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jawnstockton

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^ Agreed. IMO GSP's standup is elite...highly technical, and creative when necessary. People seem to forget the Fitch fight, Hughes II, Jay Hieron. I wouldn't be surprised if Freddie Roach predicts this thing exactly - GSP steps inside of a looping overhand, cracks Kos with a left hook combo, and finishes him on the ground.
 

RustyShackleford

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Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Wait. 
at GSP being one of the top strikers in the UFC, easily.

Break it down in tiers if you would so I can try to grasp what you're attempting to claim.
I really don't feel like breaking it down in tiers because after Andy you can make your own opinion because of different styles. Andy really is the only one to proficiently combine almost all striking forms in MMA (hell look at Dancing Andy and his capoeira
). Just watch his older fights. Hell watch his fight with Alves and Fitch. People forget how dangerous GSP is standing. He makes every punch and kick count. You don't train with Phil Nurse and Freddie Roach being as intelligent as GSP is and become a decent striker.
-You are forgetting to mention before GSP tooled Fitch and Alves standing he took them down and wore them down first. Fitch was putting up a fight but Alves gas tank was already near empty when George started beating him on the feet. Plus Fitch is not that good standing. 
-He did the same thing to BJ and Hardy, beat them up on the ground or in the clinch, when they are worn down, strike with them standing, and if you get into trouble take it back to the ground. 

-GSP has not fought many very good or great strikers in the UFC, only Penn, Sera, Alves and Hardy. He took all of them down first and the two times he did not he got absolutely owned standing up (Sera knocked him out and BJ worked him in the 1st round of their first fight). Now GSP never puts himself into any dangerous positions standing up, he always takes the fight back to the ground when there is any doubt on the feet.

-And Phil Nurse is a great coach but please don't act like he is one of the elite Muay Thai coaches in the world, he is not even regard the best in NY. And GSP only trained with Roach recently and Freedy himelf was critical of the boxing technique GSP was using, called it stiff and tight. And he said was teaching to Goerge to be more relax and be a better puncher, more like BJ. 

-Again GSP is a very good striker, better than most, but if all the 170 fighters in the world were entered in a shootboxing contest. George would beat worked by a lot of guys. George has yet to knock out a good striker on his feet, and will not even think about throwing hands with one unless he has taken them down first. That ones not sound like one of the "Best strikers in the UFC" to me. 
 
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Originally Posted by RustyShackleford

Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Wait. 
at GSP being one of the top strikers in the UFC, easily.

Break it down in tiers if you would so I can try to grasp what you're attempting to claim.
I really don't feel like breaking it down in tiers because after Andy you can make your own opinion because of different styles. Andy really is the only one to proficiently combine almost all striking forms in MMA (hell look at Dancing Andy and his capoeira
). Just watch his older fights. Hell watch his fight with Alves and Fitch. People forget how dangerous GSP is standing. He makes every punch and kick count. You don't train with Phil Nurse and Freddie Roach being as intelligent as GSP is and become a decent striker.
-You are forgetting to mention before GSP tooled Fitch and Alves standing he took them down and wore them down first. Fitch was putting up a fight but Alves gas tank was already near empty when George started beating him on the feet. Plus Fitch is not that good standing. 
-He did the same thing to BJ and Hardy, beat them up on the ground or in the clinch, when they are worn down, strike with them standing, and if you get into trouble take it back to the ground. 

-GSP has not fought many very good or great strikers in the UFC, only Penn, Sera, Alves and Hardy. He took all of them down first and the two times he did not he got absolutely owned standing up (Sera knocked him out and BJ worked him in the 1st round of their first fight). Now GSP never puts himself into any dangerous positions standing up, he always takes the fight back to the ground when there is any doubt on the feet.

-And Phil Nurse is a great coach but please don't act like he is one of the elite Muay Thai coaches in the world, he is not even regard the best in NY. And GSP only trained with Roach recently and Freedy himelf was critical of the boxing technique GSP was using, called it stiff and tight. And he said was teaching to Goerge to be more relax and be a better puncher, more like BJ. 

-Again GSP is a very good striker, better than most, but if all the 170 fighters in the world were entered in a shootboxing contest. George would beat worked by a lot of guys. George has yet to knock out a good striker on his feet, and will not even think about throwing hands with one unless he has taken them down first. That ones not sound like one of the "Best strikers in the UFC" to me. 
Again, MMA. What makes GSP such a great striker is because he is great at transitioning from standing to the ground. There's a lot of guys that have a great stand up skill set, and a great ground skill set but they can't put it together like GSP can. This isn't K-1. There is a HUGE difference between striking for MMA and striking for a standing combat sport. HUGE. Technically there's a lot of no-no's when comparing. One of the main things in boxing is not standing square and you have to stand more square in MMA. Thai fighters stance is a lot more upright than a good stance in MMA. He's one of the best strikers in MMA. Phil Nurse is one of the best Muay Thai coaches in MMA. Look at Lil' Edgar and how great his striking has become (GREAT footwork and he stays in the pocket beautifully) and look at Condit when he started working with Nurse (around the same time that he went to Jackson which I think is only the Hardy fight). And the Roach thing, Roach also said GSP is a sponge and he took everything pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if his boxing technique is a lot better now. Roach said he didn't know much about boxing, so it's a little unfair to judge him on that when there's really only one MMA fighter out there with good Thai, western boxing, karate, etc. in Andy. That's like critiquing Vitor on his Muay Thai. Or even Shogun for his boxing.

And I actually think GSP would do great in shootboxing considering you are allowed throws and standing submissions.
 
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The loss to Serra has really changed the way GSP approaches fights.  During that fight he was more than happy to just keep the fight standing and punish Serra.  Now he wears you down first with his wrestling and top control.  It's the best strategy for him but I miss when he would mess you up from strikes then tko people on the ground.  I guess he'll only do that when facing people like Sherk, Hughes, Fitch.  They weren't a threat standing, so he would practice his strikes and use them as punching bags.
 
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^Alistairs fight is today? & my picks for tomorrow will be Jim miller cuz I already hate Charles. Stevenson. Alves, Struve and Big Kos. Ive always liked Kos but he hasnt knocked out anyone worth mentioning. Trigg? Yoshida? And His wrestling looks sweet but gsp is crazy when it comes to defense and takedowns. If Kos really has the ko power or the ability to gnp ill be happy. Im real excited.
 
J

jawnstockton

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The Reem dominated...I'd like to see him go one, lactic acidosis-free round with Shane Carwin someday.
 

RustyShackleford

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Reem was on some other $$$* last night 
. Don't even know if Semmy or Badr at his best could have %!+#%@ with him last night. 
 

RustyShackleford

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Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by RustyShackleford

Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Wait. 
at GSP being one of the top strikers in the UFC, easily.

Break it down in tiers if you would so I can try to grasp what you're attempting to claim.
I really don't feel like breaking it down in tiers because after Andy you can make your own opinion because of different styles. Andy really is the only one to proficiently combine almost all striking forms in MMA (hell look at Dancing Andy and his capoeira
). Just watch his older fights. Hell watch his fight with Alves and Fitch. People forget how dangerous GSP is standing. He makes every punch and kick count. You don't train with Phil Nurse and Freddie Roach being as intelligent as GSP is and become a decent striker.
-You are forgetting to mention before GSP tooled Fitch and Alves standing he took them down and wore them down first. Fitch was putting up a fight but Alves gas tank was already near empty when George started beating him on the feet. Plus Fitch is not that good standing. 
-He did the same thing to BJ and Hardy, beat them up on the ground or in the clinch, when they are worn down, strike with them standing, and if you get into trouble take it back to the ground. 

-GSP has not fought many very good or great strikers in the UFC, only Penn, Sera, Alves and Hardy. He took all of them down first and the two times he did not he got absolutely owned standing up (Sera knocked him out and BJ worked him in the 1st round of their first fight). Now GSP never puts himself into any dangerous positions standing up, he always takes the fight back to the ground when there is any doubt on the feet.

-And Phil Nurse is a great coach but please don't act like he is one of the elite Muay Thai coaches in the world, he is not even regard the best in NY. And GSP only trained with Roach recently and Freedy himelf was critical of the boxing technique GSP was using, called it stiff and tight. And he said was teaching to Goerge to be more relax and be a better puncher, more like BJ. 

-Again GSP is a very good striker, better than most, but if all the 170 fighters in the world were entered in a shootboxing contest. George would beat worked by a lot of guys. George has yet to knock out a good striker on his feet, and will not even think about throwing hands with one unless he has taken them down first. That ones not sound like one of the "Best strikers in the UFC" to me. 
(1) Again, MMA. What makes GSP such a great striker is because he is great at transitioning from standing to the ground. (2) There's a lot of guys that have a great stand up skill set, and a great ground skill set but they can't put it together like GSP can.(3) This isn't K-1. There is a HUGE difference between striking for MMA and striking for a standing combat sport. HUGE. Technically there's a lot of no-no's when comparing. (4) One of the main things in boxing is not standing square and you have to stand more square in MMA. Thai fighters stance is a lot more upright than a good stance in MMA. (5) He's one of the best strikers in MMA.(6)Phil Nurse is one of the best Muay Thai coaches in MMA. Look at Lil' Edgar and how great his striking has become (GREAT footwork and he stays in the pocket beautifully) and look at Condit when he started working with Nurse (around the same time that he went to Jackson which I think is only the Hardy fight).  (7) And the Roach thing, Roach also said GSP is a sponge and he took everything pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if his boxing technique is a lot better now. Roach said he didn't know much about boxing, so it's a little unfair to judge him on that when there's really only one MMA fighter out there with good Thai, western boxing, karate, etc. in Andy. (
That's like critiquing Vitor on his Muay Thai. (9) Or even Shogun for his boxing.
(10) And I actually think GSP would do great in shootboxing considering you are allowed throws and standing submissions.

I think you think you are dropping knowledge on some dude who does know the sport that well and that is the reason we are not agreeing. I just don't agree with your logic. 
1- I know it is MMA, we all do, but the argument is how good is GSP when he is standing and trading with dudes instead of trying to take them down. You can't say he is a great striker because his takedowns are so good. Anderson in your opinion is the best srtiker in MMA and what makes him the best is not that dudes are scare he will shoot in for the double. 

2- Uh, so if guys can't take guys down like GSP, they are not as good a striker as George? Think of what you are saying. That is makes GSP more well rounded, not a better striker

3- When there is little to know threat of a takedown a K-1 fight and a MMA fight and not as dissimilar and you would think.  Like Pat Barry at best was a low level K-1 fighter, but which HW would look at Pat and say "yep I going to trade with this mother #%%$+%". Plus look at who won the Grand Prix last night. Great stand-up can transfer from sport to sport.

4-
 Son I am not mad but seriously, how uninformed do you think I am. 

5- Still haven't provided any proof of this. All you're saying is that he was great takedowns which somehow make him a more dangerous striker.

6- Nurse is whats hot in the streets right now. Like Tompkins, Kaman, and Dellagrotte where before him. He trains GSP, everyone wants to trains with GSP, and they think Nurse is some sort of Kingmaker. He is a great coach but with I don't see what is so great that he added to George's stand-up. And Nurse has worked with Edgar and Condit only in this year. You can't give him all the credit when both dudes have had extensive stand-up training before Nurse. Nurse tunes the engine, he has never built one. The three other coaches at least have taken guys from basic all the way to elite. Please tell me one guy Nurse has done that with.

7-Yes Roach he say that, everyone says that about GSP. I am expecting George's boxing to look better and even expecting him to finish Kos standing. But when Freddy talks it is always 70% good insight, 30% other random +$@$. GSP knew alot about boxing, he has been training for years. When Roach elaborated he said GSP was too stiff, not relaxed and letting his hands go. When he likes his fighters to do that, he says BJ does the best in MMA. What Roach really meant is that "I don't like how he throws punches". If you know Roach he always criticizes his fighters like that. 

7.5- Stop with the "Andy" slurping please. Anderson is not the only the fighter that has great boxing and Muay and boxing. His is among the best in both categories but the are plenty of dudes who are great at both. You never seen Aldo fight?

8-I lost you here. Vitor relies on his boxing, so what. So does Page, Penn and Fedor. Being a great kickboxer is not a requirement for being a great striker. 

9- Shogun drop his hands and loops punches. But he has great head movement, is one of the best in the game at judging distance and timing, plus he is very good counter puncher. His boxing not as bad has you think. 

10- Watch more S-Cup. If you think he is just going to throw guys and sub them on there feet like it is nothing, then you have another thing coming. 

With all that being said, probably my main point back to you would be if GSP is such a great striker, how come he did not finish Fitch, Alves and Hardy standing. I will not rank up there with Anderson, Shogun, Fedor and BJ when those guys have knocked guys out and dominate fresh opponents standing. George has yet to do those things. He has only finished three wrestlers standing in the UFC. 

I still have him knocking out Kos tonight though 
 
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i dont see gsp/kos going any different from the first... i tuning in to see Oliveira start breaking out of the pack. i hope he has what it takes...
 
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Howard/Alves is going to be fun. Someone getting knocked out for sure.

Can't believe how Kos has gotten GSP worked up for this fight. Georgie is not happy with Kos mouth. I hope Kos hits him with that overhand right fast. GSP's chin is glass but he is so fast that it really hasn't come close to being hit with a good punch.

Rooting for Kos but I think his best way to win this fight is going for broke. Try for shots all fight and not stand with GSP.
 
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Originally Posted by RustyShackleford

Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by RustyShackleford

Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan
-You are forgetting to mention before GSP tooled Fitch and Alves standing he took them down and wore them down first. Fitch was putting up a fight but Alves gas tank was already near empty when George started beating him on the feet. Plus Fitch is not that good standing. 
-He did the same thing to BJ and Hardy, beat them up on the ground or in the clinch, when they are worn down, strike with them standing, and if you get into trouble take it back to the ground. 

-GSP has not fought many very good or great strikers in the UFC, only Penn, Sera, Alves and Hardy. He took all of them down first and the two times he did not he got absolutely owned standing up (Sera knocked him out and BJ worked him in the 1st round of their first fight). Now GSP never puts himself into any dangerous positions standing up, he always takes the fight back to the ground when there is any doubt on the feet.

-And Phil Nurse is a great coach but please don't act like he is one of the elite Muay Thai coaches in the world, he is not even regard the best in NY. And GSP only trained with Roach recently and Freedy himelf was critical of the boxing technique GSP was using, called it stiff and tight. And he said was teaching to Goerge to be more relax and be a better puncher, more like BJ. 

-Again GSP is a very good striker, better than most, but if all the 170 fighters in the world were entered in a shootboxing contest. George would beat worked by a lot of guys. George has yet to knock out a good striker on his feet, and will not even think about throwing hands with one unless he has taken them down first. That ones not sound like one of the "Best strikers in the UFC" to me. 
(10) And I actually think GSP would do great in shootboxing considering you are allowed throws and standing submissions.
I think you think you are dropping knowledge on some dude who does know the sport that well and that is the reason we are not agreeing. I just don't agree with your logic. 
1- I know it is MMA, we all do, but the argument is how good is GSP when he is standing and trading with dudes instead of trying to take them down. You can't say he is a great striker because his takedowns are so good. Anderson in your opinion is the best srtiker in MMA and what makes him the best is not that dudes are scare he will shoot in for the double. 

2- Uh, so if guys can't take guys down like GSP, they are not as good a striker as George? Think of what you are saying. That is makes GSP more well rounded, not a better striker

3- When there is little to know threat of a takedown a K-1 fight and a MMA fight and not as dissimilar and you would think.  Like Pat Barry at best was a low level K-1 fighter, but which HW would look at Pat and say "yep I going to trade with this mother #%%$+%". Plus look at who won the Grand Prix last night. Great stand-up can transfer from sport to sport.

4-
 Son I am not mad but seriously, how uninformed do you think I am. 

5- Still haven't provided any proof of this. All you're saying is that he was great takedowns which somehow make him a more dangerous striker.

6- Nurse is whats hot in the streets right now. Like Tompkins, Kaman, and Dellagrotte where before him. He trains GSP, everyone wants to trains with GSP, and they think Nurse is some sort of Kingmaker. He is a great coach but with I don't see what is so great that he added to George's stand-up. And Nurse has worked with Edgar and Condit only in this year. You can't give him all the credit when both dudes have had extensive stand-up training before Nurse. Nurse tunes the engine, he has never built one. The three other coaches at least have taken guys from basic all the way to elite. Please tell me one guy Nurse has done that with.

7-Yes Roach he say that, everyone says that about GSP. I am expecting George's boxing to look better and even expecting him to finish Kos standing. But when Freddy talks it is always 70% good insight, 30% other random +$@$. GSP knew alot about boxing, he has been training for years. When Roach elaborated he said GSP was too stiff, not relaxed and letting his hands go. When he likes his fighters to do that, he says BJ does the best in MMA. What Roach really meant is that "I don't like how he throws punches". If you know Roach he always criticizes his fighters like that. 

7.5- Stop with the "Andy" slurping please. Anderson is not the only the fighter that has great boxing and Muay and boxing. His is among the best in both categories but the are plenty of dudes who are great at both. You never seen Aldo fight?

8-I lost you here. Vitor relies on his boxing, so what. So does Page, Penn and Fedor. Being a great kickboxer is not a requirement for being a great striker. 

9- Shogun drop his hands and loops punches. But he has great head movement, is one of the best in the game at judging distance and timing, plus he is very good counter puncher. His boxing not as bad has you think. 

10- Watch more S-Cup. If you think he is just going to throw guys and sub them on there feet like it is nothing, then you have another thing coming. 

With all that being said, probably my main point back to you would be if GSP is such a great striker, how come he did not finish Fitch, Alves and Hardy standing. I will not rank up there with Anderson, Shogun, Fedor and BJ when those guys have knocked guys out and dominate fresh opponents standing. George has yet to do those things. He has only finished three wrestlers standing in the UFC. 

I still have him knocking out Kos tonight though 



I have watched every S-Cup tourney since 2002 in full and watched a couple clips from 97 and 95 as well... Trust me, I'm very familiar with shoot boxing... I'm a HUGE Andy Souwer fan (was even my avy for a little bit a while back) and Shishido fan. Watching Souwer in 2002 in S-Cup was the main reason I started kickboxing (completely tore through the field that year
). GSP would do well from what I've seen.

Nurse isn't what's "hot in the streets" right now (it's stupid that you even said some !%%%#%@* like that)... He's a very good MMA Thai trainer, he has been for YEARS. Look at the difference between Edgar's striking vs. Penn and all his over fights. He's a lot quicker with his footwork and puts his combos together a lot better. Tompkins, Kaman, and Dellagrotte are still very highly regarded trainers as well. No, Nurse didn't build the engine of this top fighters, but he has left a huge impression on each one. And fighters only go to Nurse because he trains GSP? Fighters aren't stupid, they can see the difference, they can feel the difference. If they wanted to train with GSP Greg Jackson is pretty open about which fighters he trains. Even took a couple guys from my old gym in with no pro experience and let them train with the pro fighters that were there. Fighters aren't gonna waste their time going to Nurse if he wasn't a great trainer.

Andy slurping?... It's true. Don't know why Aldo slipped my mind. That's my mistake, but why don't you name some more? There aren't many, if any guys that have proficiently combined each standing combat sport like those two.

You say "Son I am not mad but seriously, how uninformed do you think I am. ", yet YOU bought up putting MMA guys in a shoot boxing contest to determine where GSP's striking is with other fighters. Guess what? You can't do that... I told you MMA striking is not the same as other combat sports (and judging by your statement it seems like you "know"), but yet YOU wanna put GSP in a shoot boxing competition to determine where he ranks as an MMA striker... MMA is not the same as a shoot boxing match (I feel like I'm repeating myself when I keep pointing out that MMA is a completely different spot from the other combat sports.. Oh wait, I am!). Just like how GSP is one of the best grapplers in MMA, but wouldn't be close to being the best at Abu Dhabi (he did get arm barred in 2005...) or even in a straight wrestling match. Wanna know why they still say GSP is one of the best grapplers in MMA? Because he is. In MMA. Just in case you missed it. In MMA.

Edit: My bad if I sounded condescending in that statement. I don't wanna go through it and edit so I'll just say it here.
Don't mean any disrespect nor am I mad, it's just my style of arguing.
Best striker is very subjective though because of the many styles. So we can just agree to disagree if you want. Except for who is No. 1. And that's Andy. Slurp, slurp, slurp.
 
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[h3]Main Card
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RustyShackleford

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Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by RustyShackleford

Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by RustyShackleford

Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan
-You are forgetting to mention before GSP tooled Fitch and Alves standing he took them down and wore them down first. Fitch was putting up a fight but Alves gas tank was already near empty when George started beating him on the feet. Plus Fitch is not that good standing. 
-He did the same thing to BJ and Hardy, beat them up on the ground or in the clinch, when they are worn down, strike with them standing, and if you get into trouble take it back to the ground. 

-GSP has not fought many very good or great strikers in the UFC, only Penn, Sera, Alves and Hardy. He took all of them down first and the two times he did not he got absolutely owned standing up (Sera knocked him out and BJ worked him in the 1st round of their first fight). Now GSP never puts himself into any dangerous positions standing up, he always takes the fight back to the ground when there is any doubt on the feet.

-And Phil Nurse is a great coach but please don't act like he is one of the elite Muay Thai coaches in the world, he is not even regard the best in NY. And GSP only trained with Roach recently and Freedy himelf was critical of the boxing technique GSP was using, called it stiff and tight. And he said was teaching to Goerge to be more relax and be a better puncher, more like BJ. 

-Again GSP is a very good striker, better than most, but if all the 170 fighters in the world were entered in a shootboxing contest. George would beat worked by a lot of guys. George has yet to knock out a good striker on his feet, and will not even think about throwing hands with one unless he has taken them down first. That ones not sound like one of the "Best strikers in the UFC" to me. 
(10) And I actually think GSP would do great in shootboxing considering you are allowed throws and standing submissions.
I think you think you are dropping knowledge on some dude who does know the sport that well and that is the reason we are not agreeing. I just don't agree with your logic. 
1- I know it is MMA, we all do, but the argument is how good is GSP when he is standing and trading with dudes instead of trying to take them down. You can't say he is a great striker because his takedowns are so good. Anderson in your opinion is the best srtiker in MMA and what makes him the best is not that dudes are scare he will shoot in for the double. 

2- Uh, so if guys can't take guys down like GSP, they are not as good a striker as George? Think of what you are saying. That is makes GSP more well rounded, not a better striker

3- When there is little to know threat of a takedown a K-1 fight and a MMA fight and not as dissimilar and you would think.  Like Pat Barry at best was a low level K-1 fighter, but which HW would look at Pat and say "yep I going to trade with this mother #%%$+%". Plus look at who won the Grand Prix last night. Great stand-up can transfer from sport to sport.

4-
 Son I am not mad but seriously, how uninformed do you think I am. 

5- Still haven't provided any proof of this. All you're saying is that he was great takedowns which somehow make him a more dangerous striker.

6- Nurse is whats hot in the streets right now. Like Tompkins, Kaman, and Dellagrotte where before him. He trains GSP, everyone wants to trains with GSP, and they think Nurse is some sort of Kingmaker. He is a great coach but with I don't see what is so great that he added to George's stand-up. And Nurse has worked with Edgar and Condit only in this year. You can't give him all the credit when both dudes have had extensive stand-up training before Nurse. Nurse tunes the engine, he has never built one. The three other coaches at least have taken guys from basic all the way to elite. Please tell me one guy Nurse has done that with.

7-Yes Roach he say that, everyone says that about GSP. I am expecting George's boxing to look better and even expecting him to finish Kos standing. But when Freddy talks it is always 70% good insight, 30% other random +$@$. GSP knew alot about boxing, he has been training for years. When Roach elaborated he said GSP was too stiff, not relaxed and letting his hands go. When he likes his fighters to do that, he says BJ does the best in MMA. What Roach really meant is that "I don't like how he throws punches". If you know Roach he always criticizes his fighters like that. 

7.5- Stop with the "Andy" slurping please. Anderson is not the only the fighter that has great boxing and Muay and boxing. His is among the best in both categories but the are plenty of dudes who are great at both. You never seen Aldo fight?

8-I lost you here. Vitor relies on his boxing, so what. So does Page, Penn and Fedor. Being a great kickboxer is not a requirement for being a great striker. 

9- Shogun drop his hands and loops punches. But he has great head movement, is one of the best in the game at judging distance and timing, plus he is very good counter puncher. His boxing not as bad has you think. 

10- Watch more S-Cup. If you think he is just going to throw guys and sub them on there feet like it is nothing, then you have another thing coming. 

With all that being said, probably my main point back to you would be if GSP is such a great striker, how come he did not finish Fitch, Alves and Hardy standing. I will not rank up there with Anderson, Shogun, Fedor and BJ when those guys have knocked guys out and dominate fresh opponents standing. George has yet to do those things. He has only finished three wrestlers standing in the UFC. 

I still have him knocking out Kos tonight though 


I have watched every S-Cup tourney since 2002 in full and watched a couple clips from 97 and 95 as well... Trust me, I'm very familiar with shoot boxing... I'm a HUGE Andy Souwer fan (was even my avy for a little bit a while back) and Shishido fan. Watching Souwer in 2002 in S-Cup was the main reason I started kickboxing (completely tore through the field that year
). GSP would do well from what I've seen.

Nurse isn't what's "hot in the streets" right now (it's stupid that you even said some !%%%#%@* like that)... He's a very good MMA Thai trainer, he has been for YEARS. Look at the difference between Edgar's striking vs. Penn and all his over fights. He's a lot quicker with his footwork and puts his combos together a lot better. Tompkins, Kaman, and Dellagrotte are still very highly regarded trainers as well. No, Nurse didn't build the engine of this top fighters, but he has left a huge impression on each one. And fighters only go to Nurse because he trains GSP? Fighters aren't stupid, they can see the difference, they can feel the difference. If they wanted to train with GSP Greg Jackson is pretty open about which fighters he trains. Even took a couple guys from my old gym in with no pro experience and let them train with the pro fighters that were there. Fighters aren't gonna waste their time going to Nurse if he wasn't a great trainer.

Andy slurping?... It's true. Don't know why Aldo slipped my mind. That's my mistake, but why don't you name some more? There aren't many, if any guys that have proficiently combined each standing combat sport like those two.

You say "Son I am not mad but seriously, how uninformed do you think I am. ", yet YOU bought up putting MMA guys in a shoot boxing contest to determine where GSP's striking is with other fighters. Guess what? You can't do that... I told you MMA striking is not the same as other combat sports (and judging by your statement it seems like you "know"), but yet YOU wanna put GSP in a shoot boxing competition to determine where he ranks as an MMA striker... MMA is not the same as a shoot boxing match (I feel like I'm repeating myself when I keep pointing out that MMA is a completely different spot from the other combat sports.. Oh wait, I am!). Just like how GSP is one of the best grapplers in MMA, but wouldn't be close to being the best at Abu Dhabi (he did get arm barred in 2005...) or even in a straight wrestling match. Wanna know why they still say GSP is one of the best grapplers in MMA? Because he is. In MMA. Just in case you missed it. In MMA.

Edit: My bad if I sounded condescending in that statement. I don't wanna go through it and edit so I'll just say it here.
Don't mean any disrespect nor am I mad, it's just my style of arguing.
Best striker is very subjective though because of the many styles. So we can just agree to disagree if you want. Except for who is No. 1. And that's Andy. Slurp, slurp, slurp.

The reason I said that was because you said "boxing" stance so I thought you meant western boxing. I did not know you were referring to shooting boxing. My bad
-The shootboxing argument I shouldn't have brought up because it is off topic, we could spent pages debating it and still not agree. I just don't think GSP's style of boxing and kicboxing doesn't suit that rule set.

-The Nurse "hot in the streets" comment was because it always happens in MMA when one guy is successful with one trainer other fighters flock to them. And since GSP second title run, dudes have been flocking to his coaches like crazy (i know Jackson was very popular before GSP) \. I agree he has improved the fighters he has worked with but I think he is any better than the other coaches I mentioned. 

-Reem, Gergard, Shogun, JZ, Daley, Vera, Cain, Mirko all have very good boxing and kickboxing. Aldo and Anderson "Andy" are freaks because they use such pure/textbook techniques in MMA fights where mostly you see modified techniques. Shogun I would put up there up we would disagree for pages again because he is far from technical and for everything he does great in boxing he as a major flaw that would make a boxing coach go 
 .

The thing is that I'm saying is when GSP stands and trades with a fresh opponent which is a capable striker, the results have not been good for him, but that as only happen twice. He has only finished a couple wrestlers standing and the rest of the time just takes dudes down and beats on them to soften them up first. His record and actual fight footage, put into context, to me just doesn't back up the claim he is easily one of the best strikes in MMA. And to drive home the point, I am saying taking takedowns out of the equation, just trading strikes. 

I agree Andy is the best, but you bringing up at random times had me saying +#%, why is dude mentioning him, I'm lost
. But it is cool talking over subject like this I enjoyed it and actually hoping George knocks Kos head off tonight so you can come back in there and hit me with "told you so" 


Edit- Didn't notice you said you were a Souwer fan. My Man.
 

DYNAMICS

formerly diplomat tdot
28,007
2,826
Joined Jun 26, 2002
If anyone has a great long lasting stream, PM as usual.

Always appreciate the help.
 

DYNAMICS

formerly diplomat tdot
28,007
2,826
Joined Jun 26, 2002
Also is it just me or does Veetle suck now? the quality is always great but the stream itself is always AT LEAST five mintues behind.
 
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