***Official Political Discussion Thread***

osh kosh bosh said:
we know Manchin

- has a fetish for bipartisanship
- is a bit of a grandstander
- is in an R +30 state.


all im saying is they should have put something in HR1 that would appeal to these facts about him
Click to expand...

RustyShackleford said:
So what, the Dems are supposed to mind-read Joe Manchin to stop him from constantly blindsiding them?
Click to expand...
This...

And...

www.rollingstone.com

2021 Joe Manchin Disagrees with 2019 Joe Manchin on Voting Rights

The West Virigina senator formally supported the For the People Act in 2019, but now opposes it in 2021, saying it lacks bipartisan support.
www.rollingstone.com www.rollingstone.com

Senator Joe Manchin (D-W. Va.) made it known over the weekend that he will not support the For The People Act, a voting rights bill that has the support of President Biden and every other Democratic senator… including Senator Joe Manchin, circa 2019.
Click to expand...


Bipartisanship requires two to dance. He is not getting concessions from the GOP. When they use excuses as trivial as "bad amendment because Stacy Abrams" he should know there's nothing he can do to get Republicans to vote on any Democratic-led bill.

We've had to observe for more than a decade how the anti-compromise attitude of the Right went from the rabble-rousers of the base (the opinion makers in their media like Limbaugh) to the leadership. They lambasted Chris Christie for taking Obama's help and thanking him after Sandy. They berated Michelle for wanting American kids to eat right.

Manchin is wasting his and everyone else's time. If he's gonna be on some scumbag **** and flip flop on the same bill he sponsored two years ago, he might as well join the scumbag party. At the moment, his stalling is not helping the Democratic party at all and it is giving plenty of ammo for the "do-nothing Dems" narrative the GOP is going to run with in places where they can't peddle their nativist bull****.
 
RustyShackleford said:
You original objection is the Dems played it wrong, seemingly by pressuring Manchin. You said you were joking but the racist thing yet you still said this...



This clearly implies you have an issue with how the Dems played this. You went on to say...



But no vote has happened. All Schumer did is say there would be a vote on the Senate bill before this session ends. It ends on the 28th of this month from my understanding. Today with Manchin in attendance he said he would schedule the procedural vote to move it forward. Manchin had weeks upon weeks of heads up in which no one in party leadership pressured him publicly in any way. So what, the Dems are supposed to mind-read Joe Manchin to stop him from constantly blindsiding them?

The Dem leadership, the people writing the bill, didn't try to force Manchin's hand or throw him under the bus. At most all Schumer said it he wanted to bring GOP oppression to the light by having votes on these bills.

That is the goal post-move: Yesterday it was Dems played it wrong because they pressured Manchin. Today is they played it wrong because they didn't write a bill to appeal to Joe Manchin (like they could even predict what that fool wants).

HR.1 has is the House revision of the For the People Act. S.1 is the Senate version, so what is included in HR.1 doesn't even really affect Manchin because whatever end up in S.1 is what is getting passed as the final bill and Manchin has been given tons of time to work with Schumer on the Senate version of the bill.

So now your grievance with the Dems and people mad with Manchin depends on us ignoring how bills are written and passed.


Which member of the Democratic Party's leadership is doing this, who in this discussion advocated for the Dems doing this?
Click to expand...

- it's not either or it's both. try to persuade joe manchin and try not to be mean to him lol.
- Joe manchin can be tough to nail down but I don't think it takes a genius to predict that Joe Manchin would not like a bill that contains zero bipartisan fig leafs. that's his whole shtick
- AOC and Jamal Bowmen went on tv and said that stuff about Manchin.


like I said in my original comment, maybe hindsight is 20/20 and there is literally nothing that could be done to improve the chances of voting reform happening.
but like ive said, you gotta do your best. If you think this is the best democrats can do, fine, I think they could have done better.
 
gry60 said:
This...

And...

www.rollingstone.com

2021 Joe Manchin Disagrees with 2019 Joe Manchin on Voting Rights

The West Virigina senator formally supported the For the People Act in 2019, but now opposes it in 2021, saying it lacks bipartisan support.
www.rollingstone.com www.rollingstone.com




Bipartisanship requires two to dance. He is not getting concessions from the GOP. When they use excuses as trivial as "bad amendment because Stacy Abrams" he should know there's nothing he can do to get Republicans to vote on any Democratic-led bill.

We've had to observe for more than a decade how the anti-compromise attitude of the Right went from the rabble-rousers of the base (the opinion makers in their media like Limbaugh) to the leadership. They lambasted Chris Christie for taking Obama's help and thanking him after Sandy. They berated Michelle for wanting American kids to eat right.

Manchin is wasting his and everyone else's time. If he's gonna be on some scumbag **** and flip flop on the same bill he sponsored two years ago, he might as well join the scumbag party. At the moment, his stalling is not helping the Democratic party at all and it is giving plenty of ammo for the "do-nothing Dems" narrative the GOP is going to run with in places where they can't peddle their nativist bull****.
Click to expand...

Joe Manchin behaving in contradictory ways in pursuit of performative bi partisanship?
nobody could have saw that coming.

What Joe Manchin is doing is not good, I never said it was good. its really really bad.
if it were up to me he should kill the fillibuster and make PR, Guam, Virgin Islands, states like yesterday


National Voter ID in exchange for ending partisan gerrymandering probably is the move and when republicans inevitably say no you hope that forces Joe Manchin to realize he has to do something about the filibuster.
 
osh kosh bosh said:
- it's not either or it's both. try to persuade joe manchin and try not to be mean to him lol.
- Joe manchin can be tough to nail down but I don't think it takes a genius to predict that Joe Manchin would not like a bill that contains zero bipartisan fig leafs. that's his whole shtick
- AOC and Jamal Bowmen went on tv and said that stuff about Manchin.


like I said in my original comment, maybe hindsight is 20/20 and there is literally nothing that could be done to improve the chances of voting reform happening.
but like ive said, you gotta do your best. If you think this is the best democrats can do, fine, I think they could have done better.
Click to expand...
-The Dems leadership has tried to persuade him and has not been mean to him. You issue like I pointed out where they tried to force a vote on him, which didn't happen, and then they issue was they didn't read his mind. You want people are to forget about how the legislative process works to have an issue with the Dems played this.

-So the dude that complains about people trying to mind read, is complaining that the Dems did read not Joe Manchin's mind. Like I said, Joe Manchin co-sponsored the bill, he suggested things recently that no Republican would go for, he didn't even end up including it in the compromise. Plus the Dems are supposed to start negotiating with themselves on ****ing voting rights?

After all the work people did for them to overcome voter suppression efforts they are the ones that are supposed to be like "Maybe we should include the mechanism the GOP is using to suppress black votes in it, maybe we should roll back parts of the VRA so if the SCOTUS injures it some more then our bill can finish the job, or maybe we make it easy for the GOP to purge black voters from voter rolls" and start guessing about **** in hopes that Joe Manchin likes it, instead of him acting like a ****ing normal person and talking to his caucus.

I don't think realize how ridiculous your demands would play out in practice. You are using the fact Manchin circulated a compromise as evidence it would have been easy to predict what he wanted.

-There it is, two progressive mentioned Manchin's name. Dude those two are no part of the Senate caucus, they are not writing the bill, they are not part of leadership, there are not Joe Biden. I am not even gonna waste my time digging for clips to see the context of their comments because you have a habit of leaving it out, I'll just let you have it. But those are some struggle data points. So your argument is Dems played it wrong because they couldn't control AOC :rolleyes .

Plus I remember months ago you saying it was good progressives openly criticize Manchin because it helps his brand in WV. But now AOC needs to kiss his *** too or else the Dems are playing it wrong.

Like I said, it just seems like you wanted to complain about progressives and their influence in the party. You started from there are worked backward. Defending Joe Manchin's delusional *** was a bonus
 
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osh kosh bosh said:
Joe Manchin behaving in contradictory ways in pursuit of performative bi partisanship?
nobody could have saw that coming.

What Joe Manchin is doing is not good, I never said it was good. its really really bad.
if it were up to me he should kill the fillibuster and make PR, Guam, Virgin Islands, states like yesterday


National Voter ID in exchange for ending partisan gerrymandering probably is the move and when republicans inevitably say no you hope that forces Joe Manchin to realize he has to do something about the filibuster.
Click to expand...
Like when the Dems, partially in an effort to appease Manchin, let the GOP have veto power on witnesses on a bipartisan commission into looking into the January 6th insurrection, and most of them still voted no.

And when the party said "LOOK, LOOK HOW UNREASONABLE THE ARE", Joe Manchin instead of seeing the obvious, he went on TV reaffirmed his commitment to the filibuster, and got on the phone with billionaire lobbyist and asked them to buy off a retiring Republican Senator so he can undercut progressives in his party pointing out the obvious issues with chasing bipartisanship with the GOP.

Like that?
 
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If there is a lord out there, show yourself and make Yang come 4th in the primary

Please, oh please, let me be able to clown all the Yang Gang people out there
 
dacomeup said:
You could’ve stopped here. :lol: Suzie as work still has mans upset with her BLM IG square.
Click to expand...
He claimed he was joking about that and the issue was really people on Twitter, and posters in here, so I left that alone. But it plain as day to me that all this is really just a backdoor way to complain about young progressives and their views. Most of what he has posted since the election has just reinforced that belief.

If you want another data point, go look at the last few pages of the Joe Rogan thread. :lol:
 
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RustyShackleford said:
He claimed he was joking about that and the issue was really people on Twitter, and posters in here, so I left that alone. But it plain as day to me that all this is really just a backdoor way to complain about young progressives and their views. Most of what he has posted since the election has just reinforced that belief.

If you want another data point, go look at the last few pages of the Joe Rogan thread. :lol:
Click to expand...
Never entered that thread and looking at those two pages confirmed it :lol:. Digging in his heels as the contrarian to new age progressives is def the perfect way to describe the shtick. But somehow trying to paint Joe Rogan as/ or near the median voter in this country is comical. And another instance of Osh positing that he understands white people better than the rest of us :lol:. Osh gone Osh.
 
Try not to be mean to him
sabu.png
 
dacomeup said:
Never entered that thread and looking at those two pages confirmed it :lol:. Digging in his heels as the contrarian to new age progressives is def the perfect way to describe the shtick. But somehow trying to paint Joe Rogan as/ or near the median voter in this country is comical. And another instance of Osh positing that he understands white people better than the rest of us :lol:. Osh gone Osh.
Click to expand...
To his credit, I did legit laugh when he claimed I didn't understand how racist the median white American male voter is, and somehow he does because....check notes....he lived in an all-white area, in Canada. :lol: :lol: :rofl:

Even if he didn't mean to, that was elite-level trolling.
 
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