***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

Imagine supporting and defending this psychopath for years

 

[osh kosh bosh]

If this


is what you call a hot take, then I'm sorry, but that is a perfectly reasonable statement to make; it actually shows that Sanchez is not tone-deaf.

Statements that acknowledge how the public perceive new directives should help the administration craft a better message about getting vaccinated, which would recognize their reservations and reassure them that the vaccines and boosters are safe.

it is outside his expertise
and shouldn't be given any more credence than yours or mine.

and definitely shouldn't be given more credence than the Biden administration which definitely has more "expertise" in public communication and public policy.

it's fine if you agree with him, but my point is we I don't need to "trust the experts" on matters outside their expertise.

and people need to stop expanding their expertise to give additional credence to what are essentially hot takes no more or less values than yours or mine.

 

[Mark Antony]

The rise of the Indian tech CEO\Executives is a marvel to watch. The numbers are growing, I swear we need to study this.

 

[p0tat0 5alad]

it's fine if you agree with him, but my point is we I don't need to "trust the experts" on matters outside their expertise.

But we should let parents dictate what teachers teach their children

And we should provide more funding to police offers because it's proven to curb violence

And we should let Dave Chappelle tell transpeople how they should feel about the jokes he's making at their expense

And we shouldn't listen to public health experts cause they were initally wrong about the safety precautions for an airborne virus

But we should listen to a Canadian tell Americans how they should feel about their own government

I'm trying to keep up but I'm sure there is more

 

[Mark Antony]

But we should let parents dictate what teachers teach their children

And we should provide more funding to police offers because it's proven to curb violence

And we should let Dave Chappelle tell transpeople how they should feel about the jokes he's making at their expense

And we shouldn't listen to public health experts cause they were initally wrong about the safety precautions for a airborne virus

But we should listen to a Canadian tell Americans how they should feel about their own government

I'm trying to keep up but I'm sure there is more

This sounds like a wonderful society. Just let all the wrong people go unchallenged, don't want to disturb them.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But we should let parents dictate what teachers teach their children

And we should provide more funding to police offers because it's proven to curb violence

And we should let Dave Chappelle tell transpeople how they should feel about the jokes he's making at their expense

And we shouldn't listen to public health experts cause they were initally wrong about the safety precautions for a airborne virus

But we should listen to a Canadian tell Americans how they should feel about their own government

I'm trying to keep up but I'm sure there is more

do what ever you want. feel however you want about your government.

if you disagree, disagree.

what im saying "you shouldn't question virologists opinion on marketing because they are an expert"

is a dumb argument.
it's a dumb argument in Canada and American and Nigeria and any other place that humans argue.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This sounds like a wonderful society. Just let all the wrong people go unchallenged, don't want to disturb them.

I 100% agree with you.

if an activist tells you Dave Chappelle must be cancelled for unclear and contradictory reasons.
you don't need to agree with them just because they are a trans activist.

if a defund the police person tells you we need to defund the police because police don't reduce crime.
you don't need to agree with them when the evidence says the opposite.


and you shouldn't listen to a public health official to wash your hands and not wear masks to protect against an air borne virus.
just because they are a public health official.


You should 100% challenge people, and you shouldn't let people hide behind status markers like
"expert" or "activist", to evade obvious questions about the claims they are making.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I really would like an answer from the trust the experts crowd.

my aunt has an autoimmune disease, she's older, but not yet eligible for Canadian booster.
I could take her across the boarder and probably finesse a booster shot from a Walgreens.


or I should stay home trust the experts, and roll the dice on omicron.
never mind the fact that she has to go back to Nigeria to attend to business.

I think it's pretty obvious she should go get a booster,
but im not an "expert".

which experts should I listen to?

im still waiting for an answer what should i do??
i assumed the trust the expert crowd would have some strong opinions about this?

no thoughts? crickets?

 

[Mark Antony]

I 100% agree with you.

if an activist tells you Dave Chappelle must be cancelled for unclear and contradictory reasons.
you don't need to agree with them just because they are a trans activist.

if a defund the police person tells you we need to defund the police because police don't reduce crime.
you don't need to agree with them when the evidence says the opposite.


and you shouldn't listen to a public health official to wash your hands and not wear masks to protect against an air borne virus.
just because they are a public health official.


You should 100% challenge people, and you shouldn't let people hide behind status markers like
"expert" or "activist", to evade obvious questions about the claims they are making.

 

[Mark Antony]

im still waiting for an answer what should i do??
i assumed the trust the expert crowd would have some strong opinions about this?

no thoughts? crickets?

Trust the American experts of course.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

i listened to them early in the pandemic, and im very annoyed that i did.

Did you actually have a prior on the efficacy of masks in March of 2020?

I don't think "Trust the Experts" translates to "blindly follow anyone in a position of authority," but your arguments here seem to imply that you think that's the stance.

That interpretation isn't even logically consistent since, as you point out, experts can disagree and provide differing opinions. The Who and the CDC haven't been in unison.

"Trust the Experts" simply means that when forming your opinions or strategies for dealing with something, you should weigh expert opinion above that of non-experts - including yourself. That isn't to say that expertise is infallible or that contrarians won't occasionally end up being more right than not. The stock market goes down, but it's almost never a good idea to bet against the market - especially in the long run.

So pointing out any individual mistake of experts is not a complete argument against trust in expertise. You'd have to show that on average expert knowledge fails to predict the appropriate course of action better than, say, intuition.

The CDC and WHO got make wrong, but they've largely done better than anyone else might have and I'd still place more trust in their guidance than any other single source. Wouldn't you?

my aunt is elderly, has an auto immune disease and is 5 months from her last shot,
should I take her across the boarder and get a booster or should I trust the Canadian experts?

On the other hand, just because any given expert is going to be right more than any given non-expert, it doesn't mean that any given expert is going to be right more than every other source of information.

So, weighing the advice of a bunch of sources and my own observations with the appropriately different level of skepticism for both, were I in your situation, I'd probably take my aunt to Seattle.


I have to admit, osh kosh bosh , I find your skepticism about expertise here a bit surprising considering how recently you were posting academic papers in an effort to discredit the professional observations of educators on this board.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Trust the American experts of course.

I mean
If we are waging a battle of experts seems, the Canadian experts have out performed the American ones.

the first shots first strategy we used, seems to have been much more effective,
than America holding back doses for 2nd shots.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

I mean
If we are waging a battle of experts seems, the Canadian experts have out performed the American ones.

the first shots first strategy we used, seems to have been much more effective,
than America holding back doses for 2nd shots.

This is one of your jokes, right?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Y'all let Osh transition jokes about his bad poorly aged hot take to this discussion

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Did you actually have a prior on the efficacy of masks in March of 2020?

I don't think "Trust the Experts" translates to "blindly follow anyone in a position of authority," but your arguments here seem to imply that you think that's the stance.

That interpretation isn't even logically consistent since, as you point out, experts can disagree and provide differing opinions. The Who and the CDC haven't been in unison.

"Trust the Experts" simply means that when forming your opinions or strategies for dealing with something, you should weigh expert opinion above that of non-experts - including yourself. That isn't to say that expertise is infallible or that contrarians won't occasionally end up being more right than not. The stock market goes down, but it's almost never a good idea to bet against the market - especially in the long run.

I think people are doing too much of the former and not enough of that latter.

I have to admit, osh kosh bosh , I find your skepticism about expertise here a bit surprising considering how recently you were posting academic papers in an effort to discredit the professional observations of educators on this board.

There is literally no contradiction in this
did I say i was skeptical of expertise in general? no.

I said I am skeptical when experts use their status as subject matter expertise to give credence to opinions that have nothing to do with their expertise.

when we end mask mandates, is a cost benefit analysis that has to be done by elected officials.
an expert cannot answer that question, they can tell you about the impact of certain policies.

but they cannot tell you when exactly is it worth it to dispense with mask or distancing mandates.

that's made by leaders, who YOU vote for.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This is one of your jokes, right?

what joke?

The Canadian public health officials recommendation of first shot firsts method in hindsight looks to be the superior vaccination strategy.

we have a lower case count than just about any developed country.

so if im supposed to follow the experts, I should listen to the Canadian ones;

who have determined my immune comprised aunt should not get a vaccine booster 6 moths from her last shot.

or should I ignore that and god across the boarder and get her a booster shot?

what does the "trust the expert" ideology demand?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I really would like an answer from the trust the experts crowd.

my aunt has an autoimmune disease, she's older, but not yet eligible for Canadian booster.
I could take her across the boarder and probably finesse a booster shot from a Walgreens.


or I should stay home trust the experts, and roll the dice on omicron.
never mind the fact that she has to go back to Nigeria to attend to business.

I think it's pretty obvious she should go get a booster,
but im not an "expert".

which experts should I listen to?

I am confused, so this isn't true...

Canada approves Pfizer-BioNTech boosters for all adults. (Published 2021)

Some provinces have already started to offer booster shots to higher-risk populations. Tuesday’s announcement standardizes eligibility criteria nationwide.

www.nytimes.com

Canada’s health agency authorized booster shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine nationwide on Tuesday, broadening eligibility to anyone over the age of 18, regardless of what vaccine they received initially.

Health Canada, the federal department responsible for approving drugs, and the National Advisory Committee on Immunization had previously updated vaccine guidelines in September to recommend booster shots for seniors living in congregate settings and for people with compromised immune systems.

Health Canada authorizes the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine as a booster shot - Canada.ca

Health Canada has authorized the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine as a booster shot to help people maintain their protection against COVID-19 over time.

www.canada.ca

Health Canada authorizes the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine as a booster shot
From: Health Canada
Statement
November 9, 2021 | Ottawa, ON | Health Canada

Health Canada has authorized the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine as a booster shot.

A COVID-19 booster shot is an extra dose of the vaccine given after completion of the primary vaccine series. The booster shot is designed to help people maintain their protection against COVID-19 over time.

Health Canada received Pfizer's submission to approve a booster on October 1, 2021. After a thorough, independent review of the evidence, Health Canada has determined that the Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine booster shot meets the Department's stringent safety, efficacy and quality requirements.

The booster is authorized for adults 18 years of age and older, to be used at least six months after an individual has completed their primary vaccine series. The Comirnaty COVID-19 booster is a full dose of the regular vaccine (30 mcg).

Evidence continues to show that being fully vaccinated provides strong protection against serious illness, hospitalization and death from COVID-19, including against the Delta variants.

People in Canada should consult their local public health guidance, informed by the National Advisory Committee on Immunization, for details on which individuals or groups of people are recommended to receive a booster dose at this time.

For information on authorized vaccines and treatments in Canada, visit the COVID-19 vaccines and treatments portal.

 

[Mark Antony]

Do I still play the game to try and force a point even if it makes me look like an invalid that struggles with basic decisions?

 

[dwalk31]

I don't think "Trust the Experts" translates to "blindly follow anyone in a position of authority," but your arguments here seem to imply that you think that's the stance.

I think his point is to not blindly trust the experts.

Your explanation of trust the experts sounds like what osh kosh bosh thinks you should do.

But I could be wrong. I’ve been wrong.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I am confused, so this isn't true...

Canada approves Pfizer-BioNTech boosters for all adults. (Published 2021)

Some provinces have already started to offer booster shots to higher-risk populations. Tuesday’s announcement standardizes eligibility criteria nationwide.

www.nytimes.com

Health Canada authorizes the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine as a booster shot - Canada.ca

Health Canada has authorized the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine as a booster shot to help people maintain their protection against COVID-19 over time.

www.canada.ca

that's federally, there are different rules locally.

where she lives booster are only available to health care works, people over 70, first nations ect

 

[gry60]

it is outside his expertise
and shouldn't be given any more credence than yours or mine.

and definitely shouldn't be given more credence than the Biden administration which definitely has more "expertise" in public communication and public policy.

it's fine if you agree with him, but my point is we I don't need to "trust the experts" on matters outside their expertise.

and people need to stop expanding their expertise to give additional credence to what are essentially hot takes no more or less values than yours or mine.

How confident would you be about the safety/reliability of a chainsaw you bought if you knew its operating manual was written by a communication major with no input from the engineers who designed it or the mechanics/electricians who assembled it?

When it comes to what needs to be communicated, the input of experts is definitely necessary.

The Biden administration's expertise is in how to communicate, and in order to do effectively, they need to thoroughly know what the what entails, which includes assumptions on how the public might use it. That's why you often see WARNING and DANGER in those manuals.

 

[dwalk31]

Do I still play the game to try and force a point even if it makes me look like an invalid that struggles with basic decisions?

I’m pretty sure that term is considered offensive (much like the r word) and it is recommended not to use it in reference to individuals with disabilities.

I’m sure you meant well, just letting you know.

 

[RustyShackleford]

that's federally, there are different rules locally.

where she lives booster are only available to health care works, people over 70, first nations ect

So in other words, the federal-level experts did recommend your aunt get a booster?

What province does she live in BTW?

 

[Mark Antony]

I’m pretty sure that term is considered offensive (much like the r word) and it is recommended not to use it in reference to individuals with disabilities.

I’m sure you meant well, just letting you know.

I could see why some might find it offensive.