***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[dacomeup]

I don't think "Trust the Experts" translates to "blindly follow anyone in a position of authority," but your arguments here seem to imply that you think that's the stance.

It’s just another Bad faith argument on his behalf. Osh for the course.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Do I still play the game to try and force a point even if it makes me look like an invalid that struggles with basic decisions?

im not forcing any point.
the point is obvious, no one simply "trusts the experts"

you take information, you take what experts say and you weigh your own values and levels of risk tolerance.
you don't simply trust whatever they say.

 

[Mark Antony]

im not forcing any point.
the point is obvious, no one simply "trusts the experts"

you take information, you take what experts say and you weigh your own values and levels of risk tolerance.
you don't simply trust whatever they say.

Then unless i'm missing a few posts, what the **** are you arguing? Who disagreed with this?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So in other words, the federal-level experts did recommend your aunt get a booster?

What province does she live in BTW?

the federal people approved the safety/efficacy of the boosters and provinces have their own guidelines on how they are going to distribute them.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The courts are gonna allow the Wisconsin legislature, which is heavily gerrymandered, draw maps to protect their minority power.

So in a state with a Dem senator and governor, and Biden won, is gonna have a 6R-2D partisan lean for the House next year. And two might be the ceiling even if the Dems blow them out like they did in 2018.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It’s just another Bad faith argument on his behalf. Osh for the course.

You said my take;

"if you have effective anti virals and effective vaccines you should wind down masking rules"

aged poorly.
my response is that it hasn't I stand by that.
if omicron renders the vaccine ineffective my recommendations would not apply.

you then said
"I think that any blanket statements about what should be done right now by laymen are dumb "

I disagree that my take is dumb because I am a "laymen",
a laymen or an expert is no more or less qualified to decide when it worth it to end masking rules.
it's a value judgment, an expert can provide you information to help guide your decision making.

but it can't actually tell you what to do.

there isn't anything "bad faith" about this.

 

[RustyShackleford]

the federal people approved the safety/efficacy of the boosters and provinces have their own guidelines on how they are going to distribute them.

Yeah dude, I understand

But it is clear there were health experts in Canada that recommended people like your aunt get a booster.

And since it seems you are saying she lives in Ontario, booster might soon come...

Ontario may expand third COVID-19 vaccine dose eligibility this week, health minister says

Health Minister Christine Elliott says that the Ontario government is considering expanding third dose eligibility to more age groups amid concerns about the new Omicron variant and will have “more to say later this week.”

toronto.ctvnews.ca

Even your roadmap says she would be eligible in the month (or I'm I reading it wrong). I assume this was written before Omicron popped up. right?

If so, it would mean you want credit for not knowing Omicron would come up, but health experts don't. Funny how that works

Kinda seems like it is kinda bad faith (not saying your entire argument is) to use this example to press people, and leave out this bit of info.

Just sayin

Hope Ontario's government moves **** up though

 

[aepps20]

I hope that you each had a wonderful Thanksgiving and osh kosh bosh a belated Thanksgiving to you as I know it is in October in Canada. Stay safe and stay blessed fam.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Sounding like Roe v. Wade is dead

Abortion bans gonna be popping off next in red states

 

[RustyShackleford]

They could die, or have complications that make her unable to give birth again.

But yeah, let us force them to give birth

 

[boris]

It seems NT has the ability to understand nuance, except when it comes to my posts. What you’re doing is gaslighting.

You telegraph your thoughts and then expect everyone to fall for semantics arguments. The only gaslighting going on here is coming from you.

 

[noskey]

Welp. I'm going to be served the biggest crow imaginable at christmas when I see my family. 5 years ago I thought there was absolutely no chance Roe v Wade gets overturned and argued that the GOP wouldn't dare. Of course this was before Trump and Co nominated 3 ****ing Supreme Court picks.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The conservative movement and then Federalist society been working toward this since the day after Roe v. Wade decision was handed down

I deluded myself at times thinking he might not pull the stringer but I kinda knew that after all that work, money, scheming, propaganda peddling, and norm-breaking, no way they blink

Activist right-wing court for the next few decades, scary hours

 

[gry60]

"need more money"

 

[RustyShackleford]

People were so concerned about protecting the legitimacy of their elite status profession, that they actively deluded themselves and misinformed the public

 

[gry60]

Republican governor with a high approval rating in blue state doesn't want to run again as an incumbent because his party is so bat**** crazy he might not win the primary.

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[gry60]

Welp. I'm going to be served the biggest crow imaginable at christmas when I see my family. 5 years ago I thought there was absolutely no chance Roe v Wade gets overturned and argued that the GOP wouldn't dare. Of course this was before Trump and Co nominated 3 ****ing Supreme Court picks.

Where the third party voters at?

That sure showed the Democrats, didn't it?

 

[dinyc3st]

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

what joke?

The one where you purposefully compared differences in expert opinions between the US and Canada with the differences in public health outcomes of the two countries without acknowledging how differing compliance to the former might, to say the least, muddy direct comparison to the latter.

Hahaha

what does the "trust the expert" ideology demand?

Previously asked and answered.

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

"need more money"

Where them Thin Blue Liners at to make sense of this?!? Oh, and the Red Liners, too?!

****ing fascists

 

[dwalk31]

I’m convinced that people don’t understand that Roe already limits abortion rights.

I don’t think it will be overturned. If anything, the Court will further clarify Roe. But Roe already established that there is not an absolute right to abortion.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I’m convinced that people don’t understand that Roe already limits abortion rights.

I don’t think it will be overturned. If anything, the Court will further clarify Roe. But Roe already established that there is not an absolute right to abortion.

You are more pathetic than Susan Collins when it comes to Roe v Wade.

 

[uncalled4boy]

Sounding like Roe v. Wade is dead

Abortion bans gonna be popping off next in red states

Crazy...

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

I think people are doing too much of the former and not enough of that latter.

Maybe, but in the context of the earlier thread about when to end mandates, I think they were trusting the advice of experts over the advice of you. You may argue that they should take more sources that ay lend credence to your observations into account, but I don't think that's what's being argued.

I said I am skeptical when experts use their status as subject matter expertise to give credence to opinions that have nothing to do with their expertise.

I couldn't agree with you more. I think I made some snarky comment about doctors and engineers that expressed a similar idea.

The president has a number of experts at his disposal. Some of them are medical experts, some pharmacological experts, some are economics experts, but some are experts on public health policy. So deciding when to end the mask mandate is exactly them speaking to their expertise.

when we end mask mandates, is a cost benefit analysis that has to be done by elected officials.
an expert cannot answer that question, they can tell you about the impact of certain policies.

but they cannot tell you when exactly is it worth it to dispense with mask or distancing mandates.

that's made by leaders, who YOU vote for.

Again, agreed. All of those advisors all get distilled into decisions by (hopefully) elected officials. And that's exactly what has happened. And I don't think anyone is advocating that we change that.

However, I think it's reasonable for ME to ask MY elected officials to listen carefully to the advice of the cadre of experts that they have and, maybe on this issue, give a bit of deference on this issue to the public health guys over the economy guys and the politics guys.

That's the crux of what people are saying here. You have not provided sufficient evidence to them that they should start asking their elected officials to shift their decision away from the opinion of public health policy experts.

Maybe the evidence is out there to support a change of attitude, but you haven't made the case to most of the people in this thread.

Before we go to dow the wrong hole, I should note here that I actually agreed with you that we could probably take a bit more risk now with public policy. Given preliminary findings on Omicron, I haven't really changed my mind.