***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[dwalk31]

Once again a tattoo at 18 is nothing like pregnancy and potentially raising a child. Same for drugs and prostitution… and it’s not for men or women to make that decision for others it’s a single by single woman’s choice. Calling it Murder after you decided 15 is just as viable as a person who wants to call it murder after a day. It’s not a moral choice you can justify with a timeframe. That’s also not how this is going to end up. 15 weeks will be challenged somewhere else as 12 weeks and 2 and Eventually it will be banned in certain states and those states feeling smug will go after it nationally.

So, no I can’t even begin to judge this as a man, and even women who have experienced pregnancy should be hesitant to give their opinions because this is a major personal choice. Arguably the most personal choice and it has and will affect the lives of many people, in a country where…. No one normally cares if people live or die.

I agree with you on 15 weeks. I said 5 months which is more like 20 weeks.

There is a certain point where personal choices impact others. Murder is one of them. And I think the question is when does abortion become more like murder. We seem to both agree that isn’t 15 weeks.

But 5 months? 6? 7?

For me, beyond that point it is more like murder. Babies are kicking at that point. Premature babies are born at that point.

I understand everyone doesn’t agree with me. I’m okay agreeing to disagree.

 

[gry60]

2. I don’t think anyone should be forced to have a baby. That’s why I said the exceptions for rape, incest, and medical conditions.

It's funny how accidental pregnancies don't happen in your world. I'd even say religious.

 

[dwalk31]

It's funny how accidental pregnancies don't happen in your world. I'd even say religious.

If you have an accidental pregnancy, there are a lot of options prior to an abortion at 5+ months.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It's funny how accidental pregnancies don't happen in your world. I'd even say religious.

Remember, this dude also wants to destroy the public welfare state as well

 

[Wargames]

I agree with you on 15 weeks. I said 5 months which is more like 20 weeks.

There is a certain point where personal choices impact others. Murder is one of them. And I think the question is when does abortion become more like murder. We seem to both agree that isn’t 15 weeks.

But 5 months? 6? 7?

For me, beyond that point it is more like murder. Babies are kicking at that point. Premature babies are born at that point.

I understand everyone doesn’t agree with me. I’m okay agreeing to disagree.

The issue is this is politics. The vast majority of abortions do not happen in that timeframe and as I posted earlier it’s usually due to abnormalities or local policies/cost forcing women to save for an abortion or save to travel to get one.

The issue with this law is we know where it’s going, the goal is to challenge in multiple states to whittle the law down until states ban it completely and from there challenge it elsewhere. We went from Texas to Mississippi with these laws and an antiabortion framework Is being built piece by piece

 

[IATT]

 

[whywesteppin]

There are already ethics committees at hospitals to make decisions on a case-by-case basis. Having some sort of single law that limits medical decision-making infringes on both doctors and patients.

 

[whywesteppin]

I also don’t think men should be forced to pay child support. But if a man makes choices related to sex, that results in their baby, they absolutely should support the child. Not even sure why that’s an issue.

when would this not be the case? if the man is raped or the girl lies about birth control seems like the only times.

 

[moonman818]

Yall really still arguing with the guy that can't call Donald Trump racist

 

[dwalk31]

when would this not be the case? if the man is raped or the girl lies about birth control seems like the only times.

You generally don’t have to pay court-ordered child support if you are still with the child’s mother.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Sinema is on CNN sounding robotic as ****, trying to excuse her ****ery

She actually said she is against a corporate take hike because she is concerned about inflation, which is pure BS. Hiking taxes would be deflationary. Clear right-wing talking point being deployed

Won't commit to BBB

I hate her so damn much

At least Manchin makes his BS come off as though he is genuinely deluded. Way better actor

Sinema, you can tell she is bought

 

[dinyc3st]

Sinema is on CNN sounding robotic as ****, trying to excuse her ****ery

She actually said she is against a corporate take hike because she is concerned about inflation, which is pure BS. Hiking taxes would be deflationary. Clear right-wing talking point being deployed

Won't commit to BBB

I hate her so damn much

At least Manchin makes his BS come off as though he is genuinely deluded. Way better actor

Sinema, you can tell she is bought

 

[noskey]

Holy **** shes going to be run out of the state

Btw hows our astronaut doing? Hes been out of the press since blowing up McSally's spot.

 

[aepps20]

BAE. FUTURE THIRD MRS. AEPPS20

 

[IATT]

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[yobyellav]

Yall really still arguing with the guy that can't call Donald Trump racist

Crazy to me too. Folks talking about the real life problem of mass shootings in this country and dude said car deaths are higher and they can be purchased on facebook without a background check. **** like that makes me think he's never been serious about the stuff he says here.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

failsons gotta stick together.

 

[RustyShackleford]

What Tucker Carlson is doing to white people is scary. Repackaging dangerous ideas in more palpable ways, and is helping radicalize people and push us closer to conservative minority rule

And he is doing so while being one of the most successful scammers in the history of cable

Like it there was a Hall of Fame for right-wing scammers, Tucker is first ballot.

He is a complete phony. Unprincipled. And clearly relates more to the liberal elites he criticizes than his average viewer

And all of this is unnecessary. Mans got bread.

He is helping destroy the country for clout.

Filthy

 

[whywesteppin]

The whole thread is good but some highlights (the final tweet below is especially good):





I really can't stand pro-lifers, at all.

 

[gry60]

What Tucker Carlson is doing to white people is scary. Repackaging dangerous ideas in more palpable ways, and is helping radicalize people and push us closer to conservative minority rule

And he is doing so while being one of the most successful scammers in the history of cable

Like it there was a Hall of Fame for right-wing scammers, Tucker is first ballot.

He is a complete phony. Unprincipled. And clearly relates more to the liberal elites he criticizes than his average viewer

And all of this is unnecessary. Mans got bread.

He is helping destroy the country for clout.

Filthy

You could say the same about Trump, Alex Jones, Rogan, and all these conservatives who can't live too far from a Whole Foods.

It's not about bread.

It's about power and attention.

Tucker could have got similar riches from his father's chicken empire, but he'd have to work for it every day and get accolades in the background. He wouldn't make the morning paper every day. For cats like him, It's easier and more rewarding to see the influence your words have on millions of folks, and the easiest way to get a reaction is to challenge decency.

Look at Musk; it's the same ****. He can't live without the daily praise and adulation.

The thing is, the doors they open are dangerous because once the dyed-in-the-wool extremists (Gosar) take control of the party, the Carlsons of the right-wing sphere will get outed and purged too.

 

[boris]

At what point does an abortion become more like murder?

Is a woman obligated to use her body to keep another person alive?

At what point do all women get affordable access to good healthcare?

Why should abortion become like murder?

 

[gry60]

I had to chuckle when Sotomayor asked how the court would survive the political bias that is now seeping out of most major decisions the SC takes.

She should ask Breyer. It's almost like it finally dawned on her that laws are nothing more than rules people choose to follow, and that choice doesn't have to have an objective justification.

It's been infuriating to see liberal jurists act as if morality is objective. Honor killings and irreversible bodily harm are considered moral in the right spatial and/or temporal context. All that matters at the end is who has the means to enforce their understanding of what's moral and use that definition morality to shape the laws.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I had to chuckle when Sotomayor asked how the court would survive the political bias that is now seeping out of most major decisions the SC takes.

She should ask Breyer. It's almost like it finally dawned on her that laws are nothing more than rules people choose to follow, and that choice doesn't have to have an objective justification.

It's been infuriating to see liberal jurists act as if morality is objective. Honor killings and irreversible bodily harm are considered moral in the right spatial and/or temporal context. All that matters at the end is who has the means to enforce their understanding of what's moral and use that definition morality to shape the laws.

I think you are wrong about Sotomayor

I think she understands what is going on, and was trying to counter the stupid play by Breyer

Breyer's objections made it seems like upholding Roe like the court did in the past would be in line with what was done with Casey. Using public opinion in their decision-making. Something Roberts hates. So it made it seem like striking down Roe would make the court appear independent.

During Arguments Over Roe’s Fate, Justice Breyer Played Right Into the Conservatives’ Hands

The most senior liberal justice showed why it’s time for him to retire.

slate.com

To understand why the justice’s questions were so ill-advised, it’s important to remember that we’ve been here before, in 1992’s Planned Parenthood v. Casey. Then, as now, a conservative court was on the brink of abolishing abortion rights. In a surprise move, three Republican-appointed justices chose to uphold Roe’s “essence”: a constitutional prohibition on abortion bans before fetal viability (at around 24 weeks). This troika professed misgivings about Roe as an original matter, suggesting that it may have been wrongly decided. But they chose to affirm it on the grounds of stare decisis, a doctrine counseling respect for precedent.

The Casey troika provided several reasons for this turnabout, including a generation’s reliance on the promise of abortion access. But a more contentious justification involved an overt consideration of public opinion. Noting “political pressure” to reverse Roe, the court declared: “To overrule under fire in the absence of the most compelling reason to reexamine a watershed decision would subvert the Court’s legitimacy beyond any serious question.” In other words, if the court overturned Roe in the face of so much pressure, the public would perceive it as weak, waffling, and wedded to popular opinion—in a word, illegitimate.

Conservatives despised this conception of stare decisis. In his dissent from the bench, Chief Justice William Rehnquist asserted that “once the court starts looking to the currents of public opinion regarding a particular judgment, it enters a truly bottomless pit from which there is simply no extracting itself.” Justice Antonin Scalia dismissed the rationale as “almost czarist arrogance,” providing a mocking summary: “We have no Cossacks, but at least we can stubbornly refuse to abandon an erroneous opinion that we might otherwise change—to show how little” anti-abortion activists “intimidate us.”

Scholarly criticism of Casey lambastes the court’s reasoning as detached from any constitutional principle, transforming Roe into a sham “superprecedent” on the basis of purely political considerations. One scholar who made this point was then-professor Amy Coney Barrett: In a 2013 law review article, she scorned Casey’s attempt to cement abortion rights by invoking the court’s legitimacy. Jurists and academics like Barrett see this reasoning as anathema to judicial independence, a craven surrender to special interests that defies a judge’s oath to the Constitution alone.

Today’s conservative justices do not share their predecessors’ fear of appearing illegitimate.
It was therefore surprising—to say the least—when Breyer not only alluded to this passage of Casey on Wednesday but quoted from it extensively in a long, aimless question that took up more than two full pages of the transcript. He read aloud several of the most vexed and disputed sentences of modern constitutional law as though they were widely embraced as the gospel truth.

Sotomayor's comments were smart IMO. If Kav and Roberts were to keep up the ruse of their fancy court being independent, then they shouldn't overplay their hand here.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You could say the same about Trump, Alex Jones, Rogan, and all these conservatives who can't live too far from a Whole Foods.

It's not about bread.

It's about power and attention.

Tucker could have got similar riches from his father's chicken empire, but he'd have to work for it every day and get accolades in the background. He wouldn't make the morning paper every day. For cats like him, It's easier and more rewarding to see the influence your words have on millions of folks, and the easiest way to get a reaction is to challenge decency.

Look at Musk; it's the same ****. He can't live without the daily praise and adulation.

The thing is, the doors they open are dangerous because once the dyed-in-the-wool extremists (Gosar) take control of the party, the Carlsons of the right-wing sphere will get outed and purged too.

I think Carlson is a different beast than those dudes

Like his whole persona is an act. Not just some delusional self-absorbed nonsense. He is doing a character.

And taking it to some scary places. I mean he was always a right-wing **** bag, but mans is sounding like David Duke from the 90s every night now.

I dunno, maybe Tucker is suffering from the same **** that happened to Pac after playing Bishop.