***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[AZwildcats]

We got a rough 4 years ahead of us fam, let the amateur hour in Washington D.C. begin. I'll never look at my fellow Americans the same after this

 

[EddieDoyers]

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/01/21/510901402/trumps-executive-order-could-dismantle-parts-of-aca-before-replacement-is-ready


This dude is ******* insane. He is doing this before their is even a vote on repeal, let alone a plan for replacement.

"What do you have to lose?"

"Maybe this will finally wake people up"

Republicans are really hell bent on taking out anything progressive even if it might hurt their constituents back home
Sad thing is that those same constituents are too busy dealing with "cultural problems" instead of realizing what might affect their livelihood. Crazy.

 

[moe fab]

He in Cali? In Riverside tho?

#Calexit

 

[EddieDoyers]

We got a rough 4 years ahead of us fam, let the amateur hour in Washington D.C. begin. I'll never look at my fellow Americans the same after this

I haven't looked at the government same since the Bush II years. Although Obama gave me some hope. This next 4 years is going to be just a repeat of the same ol ******** that the Bush admin did.

 

[EddieDoyers]

He in Cali? In Riverside tho?

#Calexit

Yeah
Saw on the news that he was at a military base in Riverside.

 

[AZwildcats]

 

We got a rough 4 years ahead of us fam, let the amateur hour in Washington D.C. begin. I'll never look at my fellow Americans the same after this

I haven't looked at the government same since the Bush II years. Although Obama gave me some hope. This next 4 years is going to be just a repeat of the same ol ******** that the Bush admin did.

I was pretty young during the Bush years (I'm 25), so my memory of a lot of his earlier shenanigans is not very good. However I remember the reaction from my parents and community when he got a 2nd term in 2004, dudes were questioning the intelligence of the American people back then the same way I am looking at my fellow Americans now. 

Also, I don't believe for a second that the average clown that voted for this reality TV star actually believes Trump will bring back jobs or bring economic and social prosperity. They voted for him because they see their country slipping away from them with each passing year. White identity politics was shown on full display this election season, and this is likely how it will remain for our lifetimes at least. It saddens me to see America like this, but I'm sure it has always been like this and I am now old enough to realize it. 

 

[EddieDoyers]

 

We got a rough 4 years ahead of us fam, let the amateur hour in Washington D.C. begin. I'll never look at my fellow Americans the same after this

I haven't looked at the government same since the Bush II years. Although Obama gave me some hope. This next 4 years is going to be just a repeat of the same ol ******** that the Bush admin did.

I was pretty young during the Bush years (I'm 25), so my memory of a lot of his earlier shenanigans is not very good. However I remember the reaction from my parents and community when he got a 2nd term in 2004, dudes were questioning the intelligence of the American people back then the same way I am looking at my fellow Americans now. 

Also, I don't believe for a second that the average clown that voted for this reality TV star actually believes Trump will bring back jobs or bring economic and social prosperity. They voted for him because they see their country slipping away from them with each passing year. White identity politics was shown on full display this election season, and this is likely how it will remain for our lifetimes at least. It saddens me to see America like this, but I'm sure it has always been like this and I am now old enough to realize it. 

Well, after 9/11, the whole country went into panic mode. The Bush admin fed onto those fears and started the whole increased surveillance policies and expanding the military war complex which had us fight a costly "war on terror".

We are still suffering from those effects as people are now paranoid and afraid of "the enemy". They attribute the "loss of power" due to attacks from "the enemy". However, a good amount of Americans don't remember that we created "that enemy" in the 80s, and that the American political elites were using them to do their bidding in proxy wars which made us wealthy for the time being.

How does this relate to 2017? Well, we just heard from Trump that we still have to "fight the enemy", the same one that we created in the 1980s to fight Russia that has been spread.

The military complex and political elites are about to get an increased bankroll fighting something they have propped up, at the expense of violating our civil rights and collateral damage. American greed and fear perpuated by our government has caused us this result.

 

[rexanglorum]

I was pretty young during the Bush years (I'm 25), so my memory of a lot of his earlier shenanigans is not very good. However I remember the reaction from my parents and community when he got a 2nd term in 2004, dudes were questioning the intelligence of the American people back then the same way I am looking at my fellow Americans now. 

Also, I don't believe for a second that the average clown that voted for this reality TV star actually believes Trump will bring back jobs or bring economic and social prosperity. They voted for him because they see their country slipping away from them with each passing year. White identity politics was shown on full display this election season, and this is likely how it will remain for our lifetimes at least. It saddens me to see America like this, but I'm sure it has always been like this and I am now old enough to realize it. 

The biggest difference between Trump and Bush 43 is that Bush 43 built his political career on evangelical identity politics.

From 1964 up to present day, Republicans used white identity politics and articulated white racial grievance through the filter of either libertarian ("government pays too many people to be lazy") or authoritarian ("elite, liberal judges let out too many criminals, we need to support our police") rhetoric.

The one major deviation was during the Bush 43 years. Evangelical Christianity oriented the GOP. In 2004 Bush won the popular vote, he did fairly well with black and Hispanic voters and 97 of the 100 fastest growing Counties were carried by Bush.

In fact, during the mid aughts, Republicans took on a down right majoritarian tone. They had a majority of the public on their side and they were confident that demographics were on their side. They envisioned exurban communities full of black, white and brown dopes who all shopped at Wal Mart and attended Mega Churches and voted Republican.

When Obama got elected in 2008, the GOP reverted back to its racist-libertarian-authoritarian posture that had got Reagan and Bush 41 into the White House.

 

[ksteezy]

When the Trumpettes find themselves with 0 health coverage and no way to get their drugs or see their doctors, they gonna realize real quick what a big mistake they made, I'm gonna shower with their salty tears.

 

[ninjahood]

When the Trumpettes find themselves with 0 health coverage and no way to get their drugs or see their doctors, they gonna realize real quick what a big mistake they made, I'm gonna shower with their salty tears.

Obamacare premiums and deductables were so high they might as well not have it at all.



lil throwback

this is why i never took da Looney "bigot" rhetoric seriously among other things...

btw, Donald Trump is da only President to ever appear on a rap mixtape

 

[halftime]

Can someone help me out in explaining what makes the ACA great? Lot of people I know hate it because they had to start paying more for healthcare, only so they can avoid the $700 penalty.

Then on the flip side, it helped those I know who couldn't previously afford healthcare.

 

[brendasdeadbaby]

Obamacare premiums and deductables were so high they might as well not have it at all.

Premiums were high for some but I turned down way less customers under Obama care then before. It ******* sucks *** telling customers without insurance they have to come out of pocket for insulin and other necessary drugs

 

[kdawg]

[h1]Trump’s WhiteHouse.Gov Disappears Civil Rights, Climate Change, LGBT Rights[/h1]

[h3]The minute Donald Trump was sworn into office, the White House’s web site changed—dramatically.[/h3]


Justin Miller
01.20.17 12:23 PM ET

WhiteHouse.gov immediately wiped pages on LGBT rights, civil rights, climate change, and health care from its “issues” section after Donald Trump took the oath of office.

That's what stuck out to me. Obviously a new administration will have different ideas and interests - but the fact that on Inauguration Day they immediately made such blatant changes to simple human rights and denied climate change is way beyond that.

This will affect everyone - no matter your race or religion or personal beliefs they are going to eroded in the Land of the Free.

 

[d nice]

My friends were down there for the Trump inauguration protesting for the release of Oscar Lopez and other political prisoners. Even though there were mainly pictures of the rioters circulating news outlets most of the protests were peaceful demonstrations.

I think the biggest takeaways from this election is that this Trump presidency has forced people to stay vigilant and question every action the government takes. You literally cant afford to stay sleep anymore. It's gonna interesting to see how activists groups engage this white house and try to hold Trump and his administration accountable.

 

[Mark Antony]

Can someone help me out in explaining what makes the ACA great? Lot of people I know hate it because they had to start paying more for healthcare, only so they can avoid the $700 penalty.

Then on the flip side, it helped those I know who couldn't previously afford healthcare.

When I was uninsured all I had to note was my employer sponsored plan was too expensive (which it was) and I didn't have to pay a cent. There are protections in there that people aren't aware of due to their own ineptitude or the right wing propaganda machine. One great benefit was not being denied due to having pre-existing conditions. Yes, there was a time health insurance companies would take your money, then refuse to pay for treatment to an illness you had before them. We're going right back to that.

Also probably more appropriate to nt, you can stay under your parents coverage which is great if you're a struggling student. Say goodbye to that. And much more. It's not perfect, but a step in the right direction, all it needed was for our elected officials to finally put their heads together and make it the best possible.

Obamacare premiums and deductables were so high they might as well not have it at all.

Premiums were high for some but I turned down way less customers under Obama care then before. It ******* sucks *** telling customers without insurance they have to come out of pocket for insulin and other necessary drugs

The rates were competitive, some affordable ones in there plus there is financial assistance. The crazy premiums came down to bitter insurance companies which should have been fixed by bipartisan mandates.

 

[Mark Antony]

Watching the Weiner documentary it makes me wish there were more dems with backbone. He was a perv that constantly humiliated his wife, but he had passion.

 

[Nike Jordan]

When you keep playing with fire, people will eventually get burned.

 

[Black Lotus]

where are you? Where's he?

riverside he landed in march air base which is like border line moreno valley and riverside

 

[dathbgboy]

Thing is, the premiums were higher due to non-bipartisan support. Had the GOP worked w/ Obama, the system would've been a lot better off. But let's just wait for them to change one or two things and rebrand it; almost like a college textbook.

 

[iamdef]

So I'd have to assume that under this new plan the premiums will decrease. I mean, if they don't decrease what difference will it these "changes" actually make?

 

[whywesteppin]

Oversimplifying a bit here -- health care costs and health care access are two different entities. Both are huge problems in this country. ACA took care mostly of the latter, giving more people access, but the actual cost of care wasn't fully addressed. And whether costs come out of pocket, from taxes, or from others, ultimately the total bill is paid for by someone.

The reality is much more complex. On one hand, giving more people health insurance means that more people will use health care, which means higher costs. But, if that means people get preventative care and don't abuse the ED, then people may not only use less health care dollars, but they will be more productive members of society.

That's about where my level of understanding ends. The dollars and cents get complicated. But putting all that aside, the great thing the ACA has done is move health care away from a commercial enterprise and people now start to think of it as a universal right. That change in psyche will have a profound impact on future generations.

At some point we need to address the cost, not simply by redistributing who pays what and when (i.e. lowering premiums but raising deductibles or raising premiums while lowering taxes), but by changing health care itself to make it lower cost. At least two ingredients will help: utilizing the internet to optimize up front care and second will be research/technology.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Since the ACA is about to die, one thing has to be cleared up, because Republicans have once again done a great job controlling the message of the ACA.

-First, most reasonable people know what makes the ACA good, which are mainly the pro consumer regulations. Preexisting conditions protections (which is the most important thing in the law), the Medicaid expansion (which would have been even more beneficial if it was for sws GOP governors), staying on your parents insurance, and so forth.

-Anyone that tried to buy a private plan before the ACA (i did), knows things are better now and cheaper. Great private plans back in the day were nearly impossible to get most of the time, and many times offered crap coverage if you found something reasonable.

--------------------------

Now onto the premium jump. Healthcare care cost and premiums had been rising a lot year by year before the ACA, the difference is that most people didn't see it, because most people that had health insurance was on an employer plan. so employers either ate the cost, got tax subsidies to cover it to passed it onto the worker with lower wages (employer health insurance is a form of compensation, it is not a reward for working like many people foolishly believe)

When the ACA marketplace first started, plans were really affordable, had low payments, and reasonable deductibles. A couple things changes:

-First now because so many people were on private plans ( which may be directly subsidized by the government) the TRUE cost of health care inflation was seen. Healthcare cost are r

-The first year the marketplace opened up stop, insurers price their health insurance plans a lil lower than market cost to attract those young healthy marginal customers. This is where the money in any kind of insurance is, so since there where many companies competing for customers, you got a large variety of plans at reasonable prices.

This is the beauty of capitalism, when you have competition, consumers benefit. The places where consumers have the most options, especially this year, saw the lowest increase in prices. The places where there are one one or two option, the insurers had no incentive to compete, and prices sky rocket.

Obama tried to scream this at people when he was pushing the public option. He even made the comparison of the reason why you don't get screwed by UPS or Fedex is because you have a cheap universal option in the Post Office. And that is a good example because UPS and Fedex lobby to keep the Post Office kinda ****** because they know if it was well funded, and affordable, it would wipe away some much of their business.

Health insurance companies feared the same thing.

So the alternative was funding non profit health coops in places where the wouldn't be much competition. These were great at the beginning, and offered affordable plans. The GOP during every budget debate attacked these non profits by cutting funds (they had already been promised) to force them to die.

-Now here is want happen to lead us to the big jumps this year. First off the mandate is too weak, too many people chose to pay the penalty (which equals about what ou would have paid for a bronze plan on the marketplace). Now that tax penalty helps fund the system, but it doesn't incentivize people to actually buy the insurance, strengthening the pool of people paying in, which would have made the plans profitable, and cause insurers to say in the marketplace and compete.

I don't care if you're the best driver in the world. You're never gonna get a decent car insurance plan if other great non-accident having drivers choose not buy car insurance. Car insurance companies would start losing money, some will stop stealing in states, and cost will rise dramctically.

There is a relatively severe punishment for driving without insurance, there wasn't one for living without health insurance. Every other country that does health insurance the social insurance way has a very harsh mandate. Because it is necessary. Even right wing economist say this

-Now the creators of the ACA are not dumb, they kinda tried to protect companies from this my having a system where health insurers can recoup money they loss from. It was the GOP, lead by Lil Marco Rubio, that peep this system and saw a way to try to force the law into a death spiral.

You can read about it here. LINK

When the Obama administration was crafting Obamacare, it came up with a crony capitalist solution to entice reluctant insurers to join the exchanges. Many insurers worried that there would not be enough healthy people paying in to cover the costs of sick people. So the administration created a “risk corridor” program to help prop up insurers who lost money in the first three years of the law. Profitable insurers would pay some of those profits into a pool to help insurers who lost money. If the amount insurers lost exceeded what the companies paid in, the government would step in and make up the difference.

Calling this “a taxpayer-funded bailout for insurance companies,” Rubio last year quietly inserted language into the omnibus government spending bill that barred the Department of Health and Human Services from dipping into general funds to pay failing insurers. “While the Obama administration can still administer the risk-corridor program, for one year at least, they won’t be able to use taxpayer funds to bail out insurance companies,” Rubio said.

His provision sparked little opposition at the time, but it has proved to be a poison pill that is killing Obamacare from within.

Last year, insurers lost $2.9 billion more than expected on Obamacare. But insurers had paid only $362 million into the program — leaving it more than $2.5 billion short. Thanks to Rubio’s provision, the administration was allowed to pay only 13 cents of every dollar insurers requested. Without the taxpayer bailouts, more than half of the Obamacare insurance cooperatives created under the law failed. One, Health Republic of Oregon, was expecting a $7.9 million bailout from the government. Instead, thanks to Rubio, it got only $995,000 — not a penny of it from the taxpayers. The Oregon co-op announced in October it was closing its doors. Soon, two other insurers — WinHealth Partners in Wyoming and Moda Health in Washington state — pulled out of the exchanges. And United Healthcare, one of the nation’s largest insurers, announced that it may leave the Obamacare exchanges in 2016. If that happens, and other insurers follow United’s lead, that could spell disaster for Obamacare.

This cause companies to exit and really jack up prices more because now not only were not enough healthy people singing up, they were gonna get health covering the sick ones.

It was people buying from the marketplace but made to much for subsides in a handle full of states that really got screwed.

--And all this, let must remember, effected a smaller portion of people than what the law helped. The law could have been easily patched. Used some idea from Clinton's plan, and then use some ideas from the Bush Administration's fixing of Medicare Advantage. I could go into this, but this post is already too damb long.

So instead of helping maintain a system that helped so many, the GOP worked tirelessly to rob people of their help insurance for 7 years.

And all during this time, they didn't ******* bother to propose something else that would have worked better.

-That is because that there is only one system out their that can beat even a left wing reformed well funded ACA, and it the system we should have put into place decades ago when Ted Kennedy told us to.................God Damb Single Payer

 

[IATT]

 

[ninjahood]

futile at this point, Trump can just summon up executive privilege.

 

[jape]

I don't think it's futile to know who your president is.

not sure why he can't just produce his tax statements.