***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Brownstone]

I took a class on black politics with Cedric Johnson as a graduate student. One of the best classes I’ve ever taken. Extremely smart dude and a good guy, as well.

He put me on to Adolph Reed, who I consider to be probably the smartest and most thought-provoking political writer and cultural critic around.

Damn I haven’t posted on NT in forever

Any specific readings or books by Reed you would recommend?

 

[Brownstone]

We're not paying third-world rates on food and housing. Bringing up the fact above is meaningless to anyone earning AND spending in developed countries.

I think this article does a good job of showing that even comparatively we are sitting pretty here in the states, yes even poor folks.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwor...an-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/#3167566654ef

For TLDR, the bottom 10% here have it better than top 10% in nations such as Israel and Italy.

 

[boris]

Oh yeah, well if you make more than $35K a year then you are the top 1% in the world. Let me know where you sending checks to...

I guess I thought we were talking about America for some reason.

We're not paying third-world rates on food and housing. Bringing up the fact above is meaningless to anyone earning AND spending in developed countries.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought this. It seems like he was just going for some hyperbole.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[bigrockford]

The reason why I don’t even bring up values is because data shows that it isn’t a deciding factor in a persons ability to be upwardly mobile. I blame the system because the communities that have access to those things don’t have to examine their value systems to succeed they just have to use the resources their tax money affords them. Asking poor people to value education when they don’t have access to a valuable education isn’t fair. Looking down on people who commit crime to make a living when their are no opportunities to make a living wage isn’t fair. We’re placing the burden of overcoming a system designed not to be overcome squarely on the backs of the poor and then when 70% don’t make it (as designigned) they get blamed for adapting to survive? Meanwhile a middle class person can have the same stereotypical values as a poor and their socioeconomic viability isn’t affected at all. Telling people do better and denying them the tools to do so by stripping funding for schools, social programs, and jobs programs is exactly why I won’t vote conservatively EVER.

So you think a child with two parents who value education is likely to end up dropping out of school? Do you think a child with a single mother will end up also having a child out of wedlock, or end up being a single parent themselves if they are taught it is OK? Of corse there is data out there to support values effecting income, you just wont find it under that exact title.
Dude life isn't easy. It's also obvious it's harder for some than others. The system is not meant to be "overcome". It is meant to be a place to provide opportunity to grow and thrive. You think all of these immigrants would be trying to come here if they believed it is as terrible as the people in here let on?

Let me get this straight.. You complain about the funding the state gives the schools but you support the state giving money to people to LIVE on welfare? You complain about the amount of available jobs but support continuously letting in immigrants?

 

[gry60]

I think this article does a good job of showing that even comparatively we are sitting pretty here in the states, yes even poor folks.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwor...an-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/#3167566654ef

For TLDR, the bottom 10% here have it better than top 10% in nations such as Israel and Italy.

Doesn't address my point, which is that knowing that you're in the top 1% of global earners doesn't mean anything if whatever you earn can barely cover your needs in your immediate location.

 

[bigrockford]

I guess I thought we were talking about America for some reason.

Naw don't give me no excuses now big money. According to you, if you have money you should be helping those who don't. Now let me know where you sending money! Or is your hypocrisy only limited to Americans?

 

[Brownstone]

It actually does, it's a comparative analysis, which is exactly what you are mentioning. Of course it's all relative, poor in this country is poor, I'm not debating that......but when accounting for these differences on a high-level we have it better here.

 

[bigrockford]

Doesn't address my point, which is that knowing that you're in the top 1% of global earners doesn't mean anything if whatever you earn can barely cover your needs in your immediate location.

Lame excuse. "Needs" are relative.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

So you think a child with two parents who value education is likely to end up dropping out of school? Do you think a child with a single mother will end up also having a child out of wedlock, or end up being a single parent themselves if they are taught it is OK? Of corse there is data out there to support values effecting income, you just wont find it under that exact title.
Dude life isn't easy. It's also obvious it's harder for some than others. The system is not meant to be "overcome". It is meant to be a place to provide opportunity to grow and thrive. You think all of these immigrants would be trying to come here if they believed it is as terrible as the people in here let on?

Let me get this straight.. You complain about the funding the state gives the schools but you support the state giving money to people to LIVE on welfare? You complain about the amount of available jobs but support continuously letting in immigrants?

No, I think a child with two parent who value education but are poor may end up having to send their child to an understaffed under resourced school because that’s the only option available to them.

I think a single mother who lives in a city where the government funded job services/training that will allow a mother to learn the necessary skills to find a job that will allow her to raise her child with a better quality of life than she had.

Both of those things were thriving and available in the middle class suburb I grew up in. The system works just fine for the people deemed “worthy”. But the poor parents and single mothers of world don’t get to take part In that even while her tax dollars go to make the lives of our kids easier?

The problem is you think that this all has to be an either or situation. Schools aren’t underfunded because all the money gets used up on welfare. Schools are underfunded because education for the poor isn’t a priority. The problem isn’t that their aren’t enough jobs, it’s that the jobs available in these communities can’t and don’t sustain a family, and the vocational/trade training aren’t there to equip them with skills to gain better more sustainable jobs. Meanwhile in the suburbs one just need to sign up. The idea that poverty is designed to be difficult as some sort of training for life is ridiculous. As if poor people have to prove that they deserve to live comfortably.

The issue with all your arguments up until this point is that they’re so seeped in In ideology that you flat out reject reality. For you, “if you do this, then this should happen”. And your conditional statements are based in scenarios completely stripped of the nuances of real life. We don’t have to rely on “if-then” statements based on ideology because we have data and statistics that tells us exactly what happens when something is done. We know that when the poor and working class are empowered the economy does better FOR EVERYONE including the rich, we know that with programs like foodstamps lead to less dependence down the line later in life, we know that access to well funded education systems leads to better academic performance and competency. Those are facts. Not even an out of ideology put in there. But at the basis of my ideology is that when given the means and the opportunities to do better, people more often than not choose to do better. While you clearly believe the opposite. Data only supports one of our views though and it’s not yours. So I challenge you to funnel all of your opinions through factual data and see how many of them actually are still valid.

 

[gry60]

So you think a child with two parents who value education is likely to end up dropping out of school?

I've seen it happen, and the family wasn't poor.

You think all of these immigrants would be trying to come here if they believed it is as terrible as the people in here let on?

The majority of immigrants who come here either already have money, or they have sponsors who do.

You complain about the funding the state gives the schools but you support the state giving money to people to LIVE on welfare?

It's almost like it was never shown that helping people when they're young reduces the likelihood of them using public assistance later on. It does.

You complain about the amount of available jobs but support continuously letting in immigrants?

Universities love foreign students (because people like you keep voting to cut their budgets). Donald Trump properties love foreign hotel workers. Chuck Grassley's fellow farmers love temporary work visas and immigrant farmers. And the kicker is, employers (the owners of capital) never get punished (even though they're supposed to) for exploiting the system in their favor because of cheerleaders like you. You vote to give them tax cutst and they cut jobs as a result because they'd rather inflate the value of their stocks (and the shareholders' compensation) while you complain about immigrants.

****'s comical.

 

[boris]

Naw don't give me no excuses now big money. According to you, if you have money you should be helping those who don't. Now let me know where you sending money! Or is your hypocrisy only limited to Americans?

First, let me know where I said these words, "if you have money you should be helping those who don't". Then, do us all a favor and enlighten us as to what was going through your mind when you mentioned the top 1% of the world. Finally, you can explain why I'm a hypocrite.

 

[dacomeup]

 

[boris]

It is totally believable that the highly respected Special Counsel tried to make this idiot conspiracy theorist lie and break the law.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It actually does, it's a comparative analysis, which is exactly what you are mentioning. Of course it's all relative, poor in this country is poor, I'm not debating that......but when accounting for these differences on a high-level we have it better here.

In the grand scheme of things, this is such an unimportant point.

 

[boris]

 

[stuntman mike]

body snatcher confirmed.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

So an ex fox news personality will be the next UN Ambdassador. This administration hires the stupidest people.

 

[elpablo21]

This Manafort drop is gonna be

Redacted black bars and all

 

[Nike Jordan]

27 minutes later...

 

[dacomeup]

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

Scary times man

 

[whywesteppin]

 

[elpablo21]

27 minutes later...

 

[whywesteppin]

i wouldn't be surprised if John Barron called it in.