***Official Political Discussion Thread***

I think both can be true though. The optics of this in-fighting over minuscule (in the grand scheme of the bill) amounts of $$ isn’t a good look.

Put it this way: this move will in no way bring more Dem voters into the fold. And when you’re fighting voter suppression and gerrymandering, you better do all you can to attract more voters AND keep the ones you already have.
I think one can have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY more impactful than the other

The GOP can literally gerrymander the Dems out of the House majority. Voter suppression effort will probably cost Warnock his seat. Maybe even the AZ Senate seat as well

The Dems in 2022 have to do something unseen in modern politics. They will have to blow the GOP out by like 6 points or higher, in a midterm after their candidate wins the White House, to even have a chance at keeping ing their trifecta

So if we reframe the grievance as "This is not a good look a will cost the Dems voters they need to win a 56% share of the electorate in 2022".

What is the bigger problem, the bad book, or the ridiculous electoral majority the Dems have to get?

I mean people saw the consequences of 2010 and 2014 and they are gonna stay home over a lower upper limit of the phase-out? If that's the case, then people are being a bit ridiculous.
 
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So are Sinema and Manchin really going to stand in the way of passing HR1? From everything I've read this is the last best chance to stop what the GOP is going to do more and more with vote suppression and extreme gerrymandering.

All of this effort was a waste. Complete waste. So disappointing, man.
 
80k doesnt get very far in SoCal as a single filer unless you have VERY MINIMAL debt/bills. If you have a child or pay child suppprt, it’s almost like living in poverty. And yes, I’m speaking from experience


I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I live in BK and the bills don't stop. Luckily I have a side hustle that pays under the table.
 
It's only March 3rd.


I apologize for the knee-jerk pessimism. However, this is pretty urgent. Like 2022 midterms urgent. These people want to entrench minority rule and further degrade our ability to even resemble a democracy.

Can you help give me some hope here? Manchin is on record talking about never changing his mind about the filibuster, no matter what. It's just unbelievably frustrating to hear.
 
80k doesnt get very far in SoCal as a single filer unless you have VERY MINIMAL debt/bills. If you have a child or pay child suppprt, it’s almost like living in poverty. And yes, I’m speaking from experience
80K is for single filler only

The limit is higher for Heads of Household the limit. Plus you get money for kids. Plus there is the extra child tax credit

If someone in SoCal is single with kids, this bill will give them thousands of dollars.
 
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So are Sinema and Manchin really going to stand in the way of passing HR1? From everything I've read this is the last best chance to stop what the GOP is going to do more and more with vote suppression and extreme gerrymandering.

All of this effort was a waste. Complete waste. So disappointing, man.

I wish Biden and company would apply pressure to Manchin and Sinema. Attack them through the media. Let the general public know they’re the ones holding up progress and ostracize them within their own party. I wouldn’t mind Trump style attack mode hit pieces on those clowns. If they’re going to be an internal roadblock to progress, air them out. Hell look how the GOP ostracized anyone in their party who voted to convict on impeachment.

You never see conservative senators being a road block to a GOP presidents agenda. You may get the Jeff Flake and Susan Collins talking points but no action to match. Biden, Schumer or whoever needs to get Manchin and Sinema behind the scenes and get them in line. If you gotta throw something their way to fall in line, do it. But find some type of way to put fear in them to comply.
 
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I wish Biden and company would apply pressure to Manchin and Sinema. Attack them through the media. Let the general public know they’re the ones holding up progress and ostracize them within their own party. I wouldn’t mind Trump style attack mode hit pieces on those clowns. If they’re google to be an internal roadblock to progress, air them out. Hell look how the GOP ostracized anyone in their party who voted to convict on impeachment.

You never see conservative senators being a road block to a GOP presidents agenda. You may get the Jeff Flake and Susan Collins talking points but no action to match. Biden, Schumer or whoever needs to get Manchin and Sinema behind the scenes and get them in line. If you gotta throw something their way to fall in line, do it. But find some type of way to put fear in them to comply.
This is easier said than done.

Manchin is from a like 25+ Red state

He is more liked in his state than any other Dem.

The problem is, if you press Manchin, what is stopping him from becoming independent, start caucusing with the GOP, and making Mitch the Senate majority leader again?

Also, the GOP falls in line better than the Dems, but they have had their own miscalculations...


Sinema needs to get more pressure because while AZ is a purple state, she answers to a much more diverse electorate. No reason she should act like only a faction of them matter.
 
I wish Biden and company would apply pressure to Manchin and Sinema. Attack them through the media. Let the general public know they’re the ones holding up progress and ostracize them within their own party. I wouldn’t mind Trump style attack mode hit pieces on those clowns. If they’re google to be an internal roadblock to progress, air them out. Hell look how the GOP ostracized anyone in their party who voted to convict on impeachment.

You never see conservative senators being a road block to a GOP presidents agenda. You may get the Jeff Flake and Susan Collins talking points but no action to match. Biden, Schumer or whoever needs to get Manchin and Sinema behind the scenes and get them in line. If you gotta throw something their way to fall in line, do it. But find some type of way to put fear in them to comply.


Normally I would say I can appreciate the different political shades of dems and that they don't all behave like a cult as Republicans do.

But totally agree here. This is going to come with huge consequences for people's most basic rights to participate in democracy.

Hard for me to conjure up the ability to care about helping them in the future if they refuse to act on something this generation-defining. They would be negligent in their duty as public officials.
 
RustyShackleford RustyShackleford true. I could see Manchin going on F you mode out of spite, if he gets called out on a level that hurts his feelings.

If getting to Sinema is more feasible, I’m fine with that. Who knows what’s going on behind the scenes, but Manchin isn’t stupid. I’m sure he knows what the end game to his hardball tactics is ultimately going to be. But it wouldn’t hurt for them to find out what he wants or it what it’s going to take for him to fall in line.

I know it’s a pipe dream given the GOP groupthink mentality. But I would love for a GOP version of Manchin or Sinema to get in the senate and hold things up and get in the way of the GOP.
 


there are conclusions that can be drawn from this...what conclusions i guess is in the eye of the beholder. 🤔

I'm not sure I fully buy all of his conclusions, but this was a good read with a lot of empirical data. the most important takeaway: Republicans benefit from ideological polarization

Dems have been depending on a coalition of minorities who vote Dem despite being fairly conservative. that tendency started to erode in 2020. if we lose a bunch of minority voters because we've defined ourselves as too liberal (or have been defined that way) then we are screwed forever
 
This is easier said than done.

Manchin is from a like 25+ Red state

He is more liked in his state than any other Dem.

The problem is, if you press Manchin, what is stopping him from becoming independent, start caucusing with the GOP, and making Mitch the Senate majority leader again?

Also, the GOP falls in line better than the Dems, but they have had their own miscalculations...


Sinema needs to get more pressure because while AZ is a purple state, she answers to a much more diverse electorate. No reason she should act like only a faction of them matter.



Prolly one of the wildest political move of modern America, Trump still ****ting on the man after he passed....
 
Normally I would say I can appreciate the different political shades of dems and that they don't all behave like a cult as Republicans do.

But totally agree here. This is going to come with huge consequences for people's most basic rights to participate in democracy.

Hard for me to conjure up the ability to care about helping them in the future if they refuse to act on something this generation-defining. They would be negligent in their duty as public officials.

I’m on the same page with you completely on the first part. But the rules of engagement have changed and that’s all on the GOP. When the GOP is openly trying to suppress votes, openly trying to disrupt things and breaking the rules as they see fit.

If this was an ideal situation. I could tolerate someone like Manchin who knows his constituents well and how to win a predominantly red state having differing ideology. But the GOP is going to all vote in unity on things because it ultimately benefits their agenda regardless if they aren’t fully on board behind the scenes. When you have the slimmest of margins in the senate, you need to put party over personal grievances. Manchin hasn’t got the memo and his F boy behavior is potentially going to screw his party over in 2022. And for all his talk of “bipartisanship”. Regardless if he’s liked in West Virginia and regardless if he occasionally aligns with the GOP from time to time, the GOP isn’t going to go to bat for him. I doubt he runs again, but if he does, they’re still going to want to replace him with a Republican regardless of how much he tries to pander.
 
so what's the game plan after the dems get rid of the filibuster? I know we all talk about passing all this legislation, but what happens in 2/4/6/8 years when republicans eventually gain back the house and senate and just undo everything? Is the argument get rid of it then hope its enough that republicans never win again?
 
You're basically banking on passing popular legislation and hoping you have an ACA Repeal/McCain moment when they try to strip away things from ppl in this country

but with Rethugs the risk is always going to be there for them to tear down the country whether the filibuster is there or not

Might as well at least do things that benefit people directly and let R's hold the bag when/if the time comes
 
How about we apply state COLA for stimulus benefit if they make it such a big deal. I get it 100k if you’re living in Kansas, you are living like a Saudi sultan. 100k in NYC or San Fran, you maybe sharing an apartment with 3 roommates.
 
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