Opinions on Unauthorized or GM Sneakers ?

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Just finished it. Pretty much confirms a lot that has been said. Early release/unauthorized shoes are not coming from Nike or their factories.
 
Just finished it as well. The second half was just pointless banter amongst themselves but the first half definitely explains the truth behind authentic retail pairs and everything else. Like I've already said plenty times before, if it's not that fraction of shoes out there that is an authentic retail pair or coming from an authorized Nike account holding store, it's fake. There's authentic, and everything else which is fake. That also comes from Sneaker Sensei who is the most reputable and credible out of that panel. Now whether you decide be ok with buying and wearing these fakes are up to the person. There will always be opinions back and forth on that no matter what. But what cannot be argued is the fact that these other non authentic pairs of shoes are real, because they are not. I have no problem with people that do but and wear these fakes. Just don't front like they're real when they're not. It just makes you look dumb to people that know more about the brand and care about the authenticity of the product. And that goes for anything. Don't buy fake Louis Vuitton accessories, True Religion jeans, or any brand for that matter, high or low costing no matter how close it looks to the real thing, and front like its real. It's just not right, plus like it was mentioned in the video, buying or selling of counterfeit goods is illegal in the US. Yeah it may not seem like a big deal to most people because it's not the biggest crime in the book, but it's still not right. Especially to the innocent consumers that expect to get authentic goods and end up being deceived by these sellers. And I'm not just saying that because I work with law enforcement, but because I have been a victim of purchasing fake shoes unbeknownst to me. No one can stop people that want to buy fake shoes from buying them but just understand that's what they are and that's all that they are. Just plain straight out fake. Period.
 
How have I not seen this video anywhere on here before? I'm only 15 minutes in and it pretty much covers everything we need to know about early release shoes from people that are in the industry WITH CREDENTIALS.

Interesting and pretty much confirms what I believe about authentics. That's why I don't do early release, ect..

but what was with the dude in the rat hat, Amp? 
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They called out a couple Youtuber's, YoAnty and TBlake, that are associated with Finishline, Under Armour, Adidas... and don't pedal fakes though. So I disagree on that part. I've watched a lot of Yoanty videos and that one instance might be the only questionable video he has and it looks like he took the links down, and Don Drew is calling him a fake promoter? TBlake puts on sneaker events and helps do LC's as well so some stuff was just tossed in without research
 
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Interesting and pretty much confirms what I believe about authentics. That's why I don't do early release, ect..

but what was with the dude in the rat hat, Amp? :rolleyes

They called out a couple Youtuber's, YoAnty and TBlake, that are associated with Finishline, Under Armour, Adidas... and don't pedal fakes though. So I disagree on that part. I've watched a lot of Yoanty videos and that one instance might be the only questionable video he has and it looks like he took the links down, and Don Drew is calling him a fake promoter? TBlake puts on sneaker events and helps do LC's as well so some stuff was just tossed in without research

If you read some of the comments Amp explains what he was saying. Counterfeit organizations are run by criminals who are in League with terrorists and other shady characters. Terrorism doesn't necessarily mean that fakes funded 911 but he's saying that these criminals have their hands in a lot of different illegal activities and this is just another revenue stream for them.

As for the other guys I don't know much about them, I just assumed they were like that Rac guy doing reviews on fakes and (un)intentionally promoting fakes
 
How have I not seen this video anywhere on here before? I'm only 15 minutes in and it pretty much covers everything we need to know about early release shoes from people that are in the industry WITH CREDENTIALS.

Nice watch man. Those dudes are keeping it real. This was the best one they did I think with the guy from KICKSORDIE who claims he had 22 out of the 50 Red October's. And hiw he gets all his super rare shoes. Drew and Sensai are really exposing his young dumb ***. He's squirming like a little *****. Cant confirm where his shoes come from. Typical bootlegger.
 
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Nice watch mam. Those dudes are keeping it real. This was the best one they did I think with the guy from KICKSORDIE who claims he had 22 out of the 50 Red October's. And hiw he gets all his super rare shoes. Drew and Sensai are really exposing his young dumb ***. He's squirming like a little *****. Cant confirm where his shoes come from. Typical bootlegger.
I'm gonna take a look at it now.

On another note, it's crazy to see how different the YouTube "sneaker community" is from this one. Then again it's literally jam packed with people posting videos about how these fakes are authentic and convincing thousands of people with shallow inferences and speculation. "My authentic foot locker pair says made in china and I ordered these shoes from a Chinese site that says authentic therefore this site sells the same shoe as footlocker" that's literally the logic they're using to convince people. Not to mention that 95% of the people making videos telling people these shoes are real are also selling them too. I've been posting on some videos here and there and they along with some of their followers will argue with you back and forth until I copy and paste that video along with the post I made a page back and I have yet to get a response at all. They hate being confronted with facts.
 
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Now take a look at this guy. He's saying if your shoes come out fake looking don't report the person cause it could "mess up their business". He seems to be convincing a lot of people. Atleast he mentions Niketalk
 


Now take a look at this guy. He's saying if your shoes come out fake looking don't report the person cause it could "mess up their business". He seems to be convincing a lot of people. Atleast he mentions Niketalk

Just another clown promoting fakes. Go look at his website and he's got fakes a plenty for sale.
 
All those bootleggers are exactly the same. They're either buying and selling dreams or the ones that know better are just sellin damn dreams. KICKSORDIE was the worst one I've ever seen. Really surprised he even came on that "show." He seemed like he was fearing incriminating himself. I'm surprised he ain't been shut down yet.
 
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All those bootleggers are exactly the same. They're either buying and selling dreams or the ones that know better are just sellin damn dreams. KICKSORDIE was the worst one I've ever seen. Really surprised he even came on that "show." He seemed like he was fearing incriminating himself. I'm surprised he ain't been shut down yet.
The with kicks or die that doesn't make sense is this. Everyone knows that those red Octobers were kept under lock and key from production to storage in Memphis so there's no way that he got all 22 (maybe more) of those pairs by someone on the inside of Nike. So it would have to be someone on the china side. But for them to be genuine like he said they would have to be mass produced at some level for anyone to make a profit whether it be him or his source. Unless those shoes are being made by like a small group of skilled cobbler/shoe makers to individually hand make the shoes, that could explain his samples and 1 of 1 yeezy 2s with the black panels. It's not impossible to believe cause Air Randy did it. He was no joke. He had access no other counterfeiters did at the time. He was the first guy to have carbon fiber on the 11s, obviously everyone else has caught up at this point. But no way is it legit. As for this sneakerdad guy he either actually doesn't know solely based on the fact that he's saying "no fakes have real carbon fiber" or he's just playing stupid to cover his *** when he gets caught.
 


Now take a look at this guy. He's saying if your shoes come out fake looking don't report the person cause it could "mess up their business". He seems to be convincing a lot of people. Atleast he mentions Niketalk

This dude is an idiot. If the product is fake, and the reseller takes you to court, how are they going to explain how they got all the shoes to sell? Say they got them stolen off the line from China. It's not like they have receipts for them from a store 
 
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This dude is an idiot. If the product is fake, and the reseller takes you to court, how are they going to explain how they got all the shoes to sell? Say they got them stolen off the line from China. It's not like they have receipts for them from a store 
Exactly what I was thinking. Even if they were real shoes, they would have to be obtained by illegal means. But they're not real so he'd busted for importing and selling counterfeit goods. Apparently they're cracking down on these guys cause people are starting to get caught.
 
Been reading this thread today and watched the YouTube links posted.. Really good information guys. As for me, if I ain't gonna get my shoes from an authorized dealer and miss out, then I miss out. I wouldn't even bother seeking it elsewhere that's not legit. Retail or bust for me all the way. Resellers can take someone else money but never mine. Hehe!
 
It's funny because people are still claiming that these shoes are "sold out of the back door". That they're just shoes stolen off the assembly line or just extended production runs but when you really think about it that theory isn't even plausible. Nike has hundreds maybe even thousands of different models of shoe, all with different sizes (ps, gs, wmns, mens) and with production runs that spit out millions of shoes and that's not even considering all the apparel and accessories that maybe coming from the same factory too. With all these contracted items that have to be made in order to stay true to nikes release calendar all of nikes factories are always running. If all of these unauthorized shoes were coming from the same factories what contracted Nike factory would have the time, space and resources to pump out unauthorized shoes while still under contract? We all know that these shoes are being made in massive numbers enough so that every rep site has full size runs, places like mental kicks and sneakeryetti are always stocked, and any Joe blow reseller's store on eBay has multiple pairs too sell. There's no way these are being made in the same place, it just wouldn't make sense. If they had the room they'd be filling another contract.
 
I think people that have common sense know all these stories about backdoor shoes know there not legit shoes. Yeah I'm sure a couple shoes get out the back door but not full size runs. The old saying....there's a sucker born every minute..... really applies to these people convinced that that there buying early releases. People forget that if it's too good to be true it is. Knowledge is power and if consumers just stopped and did the leg work or just listened to the guys that have done the leg work they would have the knowledge to make a good decision on where they are getting the shoes they want.
 
Lmfao NIKE Associates have funded and invested in privatized prisons along with Michael Jordan. Let me tell you why that **** sucks, the state pays for every head in jail, to fill the jails quotas are set, when there are no hard criminals to arrest, white crimes are then taken seriously. Meaning you can spend a night in rykers for jay walking, but you guys are here talking about terrorist and criminal organizations funding them from selling sneakers Smfh you clowns are feeding into the capitalist system that is designed to bleed you dry. One dude mentioned that Nike pay 10-15 dollars to make their sneakers, but goes on defending spending exorbitant amount of money so you can walk down the street saying jays on my feet they real! So you are okay being raped for 500% profit margin on some retro jays? Is that what you are telling me? That give you the balls to clown anyone for buying sneakers that did not QC by the legit suppliers? Lmfao [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] man you sneaker heads are stupid as ****! I'm not a sneaker head, I buy sneakers that I like, I wear them, DSing sneakers is stupid to me. I have a nice collection of jays and other sneakers that I had to rebuild cause my crazy ex fiancée threw my original collection in the street while I was at work, I'm Brooklyn so you know them ***** were gone lol [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]. I know my sneakers are real cause I buy them all on an Air Force base for less than what you guys pay for, benefits of serving in the military; getting back to the point, so what! If you got fake/GM/unauthorized whatever you call them sneakers!?! What are these clowns. Gonna do? Get on their knees while you walking down the street to count the stitching to verify real or not? Lmfao [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]. The sneaker game been messed up ever since eBay, i remember when I could walk into footlocker on a Saturday at 12pm noon and cop a pair of Jays 9.5's!!!! The worst size to have flat out! Buy what you want, wear what you want, stop giving a shot what people think, these the same dudes that spend their checks on Jays and still living with moms. If you can't get a pair of sneakers cause that 4 day wait is steep lol and you find some close to real replicas or whatever, do you! **** anyone else, your sneaker head title is not defined by these clowns judging you, if you like sneakers you are a sneaker head, some dude only got jays by call themselves sneaker heads, no fool you are a Jordan head, sneaker head means you have a love for all sneakers even roshes or Adidas shell tops lol
 
Lmfao NIKE Associates have funded and invested in privatized prisons along with Michael Jordan. Let me tell you why that **** sucks, the state pays for every head in jail, to fill the jails quotas are set, when there are no hard criminals to arrest, white crimes are then taken seriously. Meaning you can spend a night in rykers for jay walking, but you guys are here talking about terrorist and criminal organizations funding them from selling sneakers Smfh you clowns are feeding into the capitalist system that is designed to bleed you dry. One dude mentioned that Nike pay 10-15 dollars to make their sneakers, but goes on defending spending exorbitant amount of money so you can walk down the street saying jays on my feet they real! So you are okay being raped for 500% profit margin on some retro jays? Is that what you are telling me? That give you the balls to clown anyone for buying sneakers that did not QC by the legit suppliers? Lmfao [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] man you sneaker heads are stupid as ****! I'm not a sneaker head, I buy sneakers that I like, I wear them, DSing sneakers is stupid to me. I have a nice collection of jays and other sneakers that I had to rebuild cause my crazy ex fiancée threw my original collection in the street while I was at work, I'm Brooklyn so you know them ***** were gone lol [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]. I know my sneakers are real cause I buy them all on an Air Force base for less than what you guys pay for, benefits of serving in the military; getting back to the point, so what! If you got fake/GM/unauthorized whatever you call them sneakers!?! What are these clowns. Gonna do? Get on their knees while you walking down the street to count the stitching to verify real or not? Lmfao [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]. The sneaker game been messed up ever since eBay, i remember when I could walk into footlocker on a Saturday at 12pm noon and cop a pair of Jays 9.5's!!!! The worst size to have flat out! Buy what you want, wear what you want, stop giving a shot what people think, these the same dudes that spend their checks on Jays and still living with moms. If you can't get a pair of sneakers cause that 4 day wait is steep lol and you find some close to real replicas or whatever, do you! **** anyone else, your sneaker head title is not defined by these clowns judging you, if you like sneakers you are a sneaker head, some dude only got jays by call themselves sneaker heads, no fool you are a Jordan head, sneaker head means you have a love for all sneakers even roshes or Adidas shell tops lol
how much of this thread did you read before posting?
 
Lmfao NIKE Associates have funded and invested in privatized prisons along with Michael Jordan. Let me tell you why that **** sucks, the state pays for every head in jail, to fill the jails quotas are set, when there are no hard criminals to arrest, white crimes are then taken seriously. Meaning you can spend a night in rykers for jay walking, but you guys are here talking about terrorist and criminal organizations funding them from selling sneakers Smfh you clowns are feeding into the capitalist system that is designed to bleed you dry. One dude mentioned that Nike pay 10-15 dollars to make their sneakers, but goes on defending spending exorbitant amount of money so you can walk down the street saying jays on my feet they real! So you are okay being raped for 500% profit margin on some retro jays? Is that what you are telling me? That give you the balls to clown anyone for buying sneakers that did not QC by the legit suppliers? Lmfao [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] man you sneaker heads are stupid as ****! I'm not a sneaker head, I buy sneakers that I like, I wear them, DSing sneakers is stupid to me. I have a nice collection of jays and other sneakers that I had to rebuild cause my crazy ex fiancée threw my original collection in the street while I was at work, I'm Brooklyn so you know them ***** were gone lol [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]. I know my sneakers are real cause I buy them all on an Air Force base for less than what you guys pay for, benefits of serving in the military; getting back to the point, so what! If you got fake/GM/unauthorized whatever you call them sneakers!?! What are these clowns. Gonna do? Get on their knees while you walking down the street to count the stitching to verify real or not? Lmfao [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]. The sneaker game been messed up ever since eBay, i remember when I could walk into footlocker on a Saturday at 12pm noon and cop a pair of Jays 9.5's!!!! The worst size to have flat out! Buy what you want, wear what you want, stop giving a shot what people think, these the same dudes that spend their checks on Jays and still living with moms. If you can't get a pair of sneakers cause that 4 day wait is steep lol and you find some close to real replicas or whatever, do you! **** anyone else, your sneaker head title is not defined by these clowns judging you, if you like sneakers you are a sneaker head, some dude only got jays by call themselves sneaker heads, no fool you are a Jordan head, sneaker head means you have a love for all sneakers even roshes or Adidas shell tops lol
You signed up for an account just to write this gibberish about jails and your ex girlfriend cutting up your GR jordans? Obviously reading isn't this guys strong suit JD. 

I think your having a hard time understanding the point I was trying to make if that comment was directed at me.. Let me be clear here, I COULD CARE LESS WHAT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER HAS ON THEIR FEET.. I see people in fake kicks ALL of the time, doesn't hurt my feelings a bit.. If that's how you choose to roll, do you. Why would I care? I have bigger fish to fry..Just don't fool yourself into thinking that the issues you speak of are as little as a bad stitch here and there.. Just bc you personally cant see those tells, doesn't mean their not there my friend.

As a collector what I do care about is someone trying to profit off of selling fake products as legit to unsuspecting or ignorant buyers.. Yes the shoes cost JB about $15 bucks to initially produce, however material or initial product cost is NOT what makes a shoe "valuable".. That is strictly hype and mostly the limited #s..I didn't make the rules man, Its always been that way with EVERYTHING including sneakers that are limited..(Cars, Guns, Art, Baseball cards, Comics, etc. etc.) Business 101 - Good ol' supply and demand.

Weird comparison ill admit, but it might work....What if the armory decided to send you into battle with some new GM bootleg bullets? They look almost the same, they feel almost the same.. An guess what guys they were only 1/4 of the price!!.. What a steal!!! "Here take a few extra, you'll probably need them".. My point? People expect to get what they pay for, what they sign up for. You didn't sign up to shoot back at "insurgents" with sub-par knockoff ammo. On the other side of the coin, some kid didn't sign up to pay $5000 for a very limited authentic sneaker just to be sent some $80 bootlegs..You think he shouldn't care about that and just be happy? Really? Yes some people take it way too seriously - I give you that..I remember those good ol' days too and things have DEFINITELY changed. IMO not for the better..However its the same with anything popular - I'm sure you've seen some knucklehead with an AR with sooooo many accessories strapped to it you couldn't shoot the damn thing.

Sneakers is a 2-3B$ business, believe it or not - It should be taken very seriously. If you choose not to care and think its stupid, fine that's totally up to you.. Some people may think you're stupid for fighting a war on foreign soil for people who mostly don't want you there to begin with. Opinions are like ***holes though, everyone's got one right?..

Be safe out there bro..

PS- Real "sneaker heads" dont call themselves "sneaker heads"
 
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I read all ten pages and I see people berating others or calling them fake sneaker heads for buying replicas, as if those high horse elitist mother ******* got the copyright on the word sneaker head and its definition. You don't care cool for you, I doubt it can spot fakes from a mile away especially if you talkin about bad stitching, what are you the bionic man? [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] look man, I logged in this **** to read about unauthorized kicks what they are and where they came from, I only now heard about them cause people are buying unauthorized yeezys and I saw an article on it so before laughing at people for buying fakes, I decided to do the research. What I came out of it is that like any community you have your elitist *** holes dictating what's cool and what's not and you have the masses following along not trying to sound like a noob, I'm saying I don't give a **** and they shouldn't either what people think. I didn't have jays as a kid I fought mother ******* in Brooklyn cause you get clowned daily for not being cool in other eyes, I fell in love with the OG Aqua 8's couldn't get them cause parents cared more absolutely food and rent than some jays. So if you love sneakers and you can't get them cause hype beast are camped out for weeks while people who work can't do that **** or cause resellers got 10 screens with bots preventing the real purist from getting sneakers then if you can find some well made passable replicas for the cheap then **** it and everyone esle, get em. Options don't follow you in the grave neither does pride, so do you. I just have a problem with the condescending berating attitudes I've read on here, but whatever. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
 
I read all ten pages and I see people berating others or calling them fake sneaker heads for buying replicas, as if those high horse elitist mother ******* got the copyright on the word sneaker head and its definition. You don't care cool for you, I doubt it can spot fakes from a mile away especially if you talkin about bad stitching, what are you the bionic man? [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] look man, I logged in this **** to read about unauthorized kicks what they are and where they came from, I only now heard about them cause people are buying unauthorized yeezys and I saw an article on it so before laughing at people for buying fakes, I decided to do the research. What I came out of it is that like any community you have your elitist *** holes dictating what's cool and what's not and you have the masses following along not trying to sound like a noob, I'm saying I don't give a **** and they shouldn't either what people think. I didn't have jays as a kid I fought mother ******* in Brooklyn cause you get clowned daily for not being cool in other eyes, I fell in love with the OG Aqua 8's couldn't get them cause parents cared more absolutely food and rent than some jays. So if you love sneakers and you can't get them cause hype beast are camped out for weeks while people who work can't do that **** or cause resellers got 10 screens with bots preventing the real purist from getting sneakers then if you can find some well made passable replicas for the cheap then **** it and everyone esle, get em. Options don't follow you in the grave neither does pride, so do you. I just have a problem with the condescending berating attitudes I've read on here, but whatever. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
there a couple of threads on here that deal on the subject of unauthorized and although there is some insulting that go back and forth. 95% of the arguments that have gone on in the past arent because of judging people or being condescending. They come from people going out to make "unauthorized" shoes something theyre not. the term unauthorized came about in 2011 ish when people didnt know anything about high quality fakes. when we didnt know we assumed they came from the original companies and were being made without permission. Well fast forward to now where we KNOW that these are being made from the same people that make burberry print jordan 11s and spongebob dub zeros there are still people that are STILL trying to claim them as something theyre not, and thats an authentic shoe. And its not. Niketalk is a place for true sneaker enthusiasts. counterfeit shoes are NOT apart of the culture and are ILLEGAL. So expect to met with some hostility if you are parading fakes around as if they are the real deal and push that idea on to others.
 
Ok so the beef is not the fake shoes but the people trying to pass them off as real.

So if someone bought some replica solar reds or grey yeezy 2 you would rather them come out and say yo these fake but I'm fly tho.

Resellers, bots, fiends that stay in line for weeks are killing the game or beating a dead horse. So I personally understand people frustration if they can't get sneakers because they too are enthusiast so they resort to getting replicas.

That's like saying a car enthusiast who changes the engine on a 86 camero is not a true car enthusiast because he didn't restore the car with the original engine or could afford the marked up 86 engine.

I saw a dude saying people who buy replicas are broke, as opposed to going on eBay paying triple sometimes quadruple the prices.

To me it means nothing like I said I get my kicks in base, they just come a month late cause I'm stationed in England. I just didn't agree with the jabs for something so minuscule
 
I read all ten pages and I see people berating others or calling them fake sneaker heads for buying replicas, as if those high horse elitist mother ******* got the copyright on the word sneaker head and its definition. You don't care cool for you, I doubt it can spot fakes from a mile away especially if you talkin about bad stitching, what are you the bionic man? [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] look man, I logged in this **** to read about unauthorized kicks what they are and where they came from, I only now heard about them cause people are buying unauthorized yeezys and I saw an article on it so before laughing at people for buying fakes, I decided to do the research. What I came out of it is that like any community you have your elitist *** holes dictating what's cool and what's not and you have the masses following along not trying to sound like a noob, I'm saying I don't give a **** and they shouldn't either what people think. I didn't have jays as a kid I fought mother ******* in Brooklyn cause you get clowned daily for not being cool in other eyes, I fell in love with the OG Aqua 8's couldn't get them cause parents cared more absolutely food and rent than some jays. So if you love sneakers and you can't get them cause hype beast are camped out for weeks while people who work can't do that **** or cause resellers got 10 screens with bots preventing the real purist from getting sneakers then if you can find some well made passable replicas for the cheap then **** it and everyone esle, get em. Options don't follow you in the grave neither does pride, so do you. I just have a problem with the condescending berating attitudes I've read on here, but whatever. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
Agreed..There are definitely elitists here and there..To be honest man a lot of the guys around these days just started post Concord 11s - so please dont think a few knucklehead elitists speak for the whole site.There are some very educated guys in here that will help clear the air for you..

Ill give it to you straight and try and answer any questions i can for you..GMs are simply the best fakes out there..They are NOT made along side the legit pairs as always rumored, they are not over runs or B grades thats also propaganda.They are just good fakes.. Now people will say they are "the same" - this is false..Logos are slightly different, colors, general shape and comfort is not there because corners have been cut, sometimes big corners like unfilled airbags etc...The material will be thinner making the shoes wear faster etc. If you just want the "look" and no more i hate to say it but GMs may be acceptable for some people..If you're buying to collect, or to invest or simply the fact you can usually sell your lightly used shoes for about what you probably paid for them, sometimes much more GMs are not the way to go..No Ifs and or buts. Ill use the gun reference again because its probably something we have in common.. You got your $500 ARs that "look" like an M4. Then you have an M4..They may look alike but thats about where the comparison ends in most cases.
 
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