Pope/Vatican accused of crimes against humanity Vol. About time

[imreallydirknowitzki]

Lol @ Catholicism.

 

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by HARM

I don't understand how someone can be of Catholic faith with all the dirt the Vatican has done over the centuries ...

you could say that for ALL OF CHRISTIANITY

Originally Posted by jbone2308

I hope no one is blaming God. We make our own decisions foolish or wise but God has nothing to do with the sinful nature of humans.

The Catholic Church has been behind a lot of garbage just has the church in general.

But the Eurocentric Catholic Church has had it's hand in a lot of historical nonsense like the Crusades, Hitlers reign, turning "savages" into educated people with their false Christianity and all this mess with supposively living celebate but raping boys in the process.

Paul said in the scriptures, "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9 RSV)

Looks like they never really read the Bible.

don't act like as if you follow every single rule of the Bible, you damn hypocrite. 
you pick and choose your morals from the bible, just as the catholic church does.

Stop right there.  You don't know me nor did I say anything hypocritical partna.  I don't follow every rule and never claimed I did so slow down.  I pointed out a verse which is very simple.  If they can't control their desires GO MARRY!  It's not a sin to have a wife or a woman.
  

You're criticizing the Vatican for not following a rule in the Bible.

You admitted that you don't follow at least one rule that is in the Bible.

How is that not being a hypocrite?  You criticized the Vatican for doing the same things that you do.

You pick and choose what you want to follow from the Bible, just as the Vatican does.

You're a hypocrite, simple as that.

 

[kiendienn]

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by HARM

I don't understand how someone can be of Catholic faith with all the dirt the Vatican has done over the centuries ...

you could say that for ALL OF CHRISTIANITY

Originally Posted by jbone2308

I hope no one is blaming God. We make our own decisions foolish or wise but God has nothing to do with the sinful nature of humans.

The Catholic Church has been behind a lot of garbage just has the church in general.

But the Eurocentric Catholic Church has had it's hand in a lot of historical nonsense like the Crusades, Hitlers reign, turning "savages" into educated people with their false Christianity and all this mess with supposively living celebate but raping boys in the process.

Paul said in the scriptures, "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9 RSV)

Looks like they never really read the Bible.

don't act like as if you follow every single rule of the Bible, you damn hypocrite. 
you pick and choose your morals from the bible, just as the catholic church does.

Stop right there.  You don't know me nor did I say anything hypocritical partna.  I don't follow every rule and never claimed I did so slow down.  I pointed out a verse which is very simple.  If they can't control their desires GO MARRY!  It's not a sin to have a wife or a woman.
  

why don't you follow every rule?

do you just manipulate the "important" rules (what you consider "important") and disregard all of the other ones, as you can't/don't want to justify the rest of the rules that you 'forgot about'

in that regard, you're manipulating the bible just as much as the priest telling the kids that "God wants you to sip on this jesus juice, then close your eyes and open your mouth or else you will go to hell"

all religious people manipulate the bible in some way to justify their own personal actions/wants/desires, whether they're conscious of it or not

you copied the priest in his manipulations, and the priesst manipulate the children to molest them, so through the transitive property . . .

*reported*

jk, i dont care what you do in terms of following religion and the bible, as long as religious people, and their opponents keep it to themselves, idc.

though i do hope that those found guilty are prosecuted, as child molestation is a disgusting crime

 

[jbone2308]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1


you could say that for ALL OF CHRISTIANITY

don't act like as if you follow every single rule of the Bible, you damn hypocrite. 
you pick and choose your morals from the bible, just as the catholic church does.

Stop right there.  You don't know me nor did I say anything hypocritical partna.  I don't follow every rule and never claimed I did so slow down.  I pointed out a verse which is very simple.  If they can't control their desires GO MARRY!  It's not a sin to have a wife or a woman.
  

You're criticizing the Vatican for not following a rule in the Bible.

You admitted that you don't follow at least one rule that is in the Bible.

How is that not being a hypocrite?  You criticized the Vatican for doing the same things that you do.

You pick and choose what you want to follow from the Bible, just as the Vatican does.

You're a hypocrite, simple as that.

So we cannot say anything about the situation because I believe in God also?  But when I do I'm a hypocrite.

No of us are perfect duke and I don't pick and chose what I want to follow, my goal is to FOLLOW THE WHOLE THING!

If I sat here and said, I follow the Bible, everything in it.  What would you say about me then?

Your problem isn't in what I said, it's basis is that I admit I believe.  I'm not religious either anything can be done religiously.

I'm not here to argue either but the statements I said are well known.  Just as Abe Lincoln was no hero to the slaves.

  

 

[jbone2308]

Originally Posted by kiendienn

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1


you could say that for ALL OF CHRISTIANITY

don't act like as if you follow every single rule of the Bible, you damn hypocrite. 
you pick and choose your morals from the bible, just as the catholic church does.

Stop right there.  You don't know me nor did I say anything hypocritical partna.  I don't follow every rule and never claimed I did so slow down.  I pointed out a verse which is very simple.  If they can't control their desires GO MARRY!  It's not a sin to have a wife or a woman.
  

why don't you follow every rule?

do you just manipulate the "important" rules (what you consider "important") and disregard all of the other ones, as you can't/don't want to justify the rest of the rules that you 'forgot about'

in that regard, you're manipulating the bible just as much as the priest telling the kids that "God wants you to sip on this jesus juice, then close your eyes and open your mouth or else you will go to hell"

all religious people manipulate the bible in some way to justify their own personal actions/wants/desires, whether they're conscious of it or not

you copied the priest in his manipulations, and the priesst manipulate the children to molest them, so through the transitive property . . .

*reported*

jk, i dont care what you do in terms of following religion and the bible, as long as religious people, and their opponents keep it to themselves, idc.

though i do hope that those found guilty are prosecuted, as child molestation is a disgusting crime

I try to follow every rule, who on earth is perfect? 

There is no picking and choosing.  Maybe these guys struggle with lust, why not hit up the confessional before the act?  Why cover each others butts *pun* and allow these acts to continue?  The point is that these are men claiming faith and biblical principals and yet they do nothing to fight the problem and now we have this coming out.  Heres the problem, this has went on in the CHURCH not just Vatican, Methodist, Catholic, Baptist, or whatever since forever.  Just as the Eddie Long stuff and other things.

We should point at the problem and correct each other for this nonsense.  Just as I get corrected by my wife, pastor, parents, friends for things I do.  As I said no one is perfect and God knows that but for no one to say anything and this be a big organizational thing is craziness.

  

 

[antonlavey]

For people who try to follow every rule

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:
 

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

 

Kill Witches

    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

 

Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put todeath for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 

Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

 

Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

 

http://Death for Cursing Parents

   1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

 

Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

 

Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

 

Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

 

Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

 

Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

 

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

http://Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

 

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

 

    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

 

Death for Blasphemy

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

 

Kill False Prophets

    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.  (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

 

    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

 

http://Infidels and Gays Should Die

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

 

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.'  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

 

http://Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

 

[jbone2308]

You do realize you posted Old Testiment Scripture which God specifically was speaking to a certain group of people right?

So we cannot get piercings or tats either? Eat certain foods nor mix races by marrying outside of your own and having children?

Context of the scripture is key. That is why we got the "God hates" Church and churches who still think Jesus was white and slavery was ok.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by jbone2308

You do realize you posted Old Testiment Scripture which God specifically was speaking to a certain group of people right?

So we cannot get piercings or tats either? Eat certain foods nor mix races by marrying outside of your own and having children?

Context of the scripture is key. That is why we got the "God hates" Church and churches who still think Jesus was white and slavery was ok.

I knew you'd say that, goes to find immorality in the new testament-A lot of Christians follow the old testament as well when it's CONVENIENT

The point still stands you pick and choose what you wanna take from the bible-Jesus Christ CONDONED slavery in the New Testament, he had a chance to speak out against it and he never did

You pick and choose what you wanna get out of the bible, interpretations of the bible and what people choose to get out of it is not consistent from person to person

Christians quote the Old Testament ALLL THE THE TIME, I was once a Christian I would know

If God was speaking to a specific group of people, why does the Old Testament even exist in churches to begin with and does that make these scriptures ok? And why did he focus on this specific group of people and not others? Why do these people get rules and everyone else get a "free pass" to get tattoos and smash women on the Sabbath?

 

[noblekane]

wow where silly putty at? did he die? i was expecting an anti religion novel by now in here from him? anton better go check up on ya boy and see if he didnt have a heart attack from getting too riled up this time talking about religion lol

 

[kramer]

What they did/do was/is wrong /thread

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by NobleKane

wow where silly putty at? did he die? i was expecting an anti religion novel by now in here from him? anton better go check up on ya boy and see if he didnt have a heart attack from getting too riled up this time talking about religion lol

lol I'm sure he's doing something far more important than NT, contrary to popular belief he doesn't spend most of his energy on here arguing religion

 

[rikan havok]

nvm

 

[jbone2308]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by jbone2308

You do realize you posted Old Testiment Scripture which God specifically was speaking to a certain group of people right?

So we cannot get piercings or tats either? Eat certain foods nor mix races by marrying outside of your own and having children?

Context of the scripture is key. That is why we got the "God hates" Church and churches who still think Jesus was white and slavery was ok.

I knew you'd say that, goes to find immorality in the new testament-A lot of Christians follow the old testament as well when it's CONVENIENT

The point still stands you pick and choose what you wanna take from the bible-Jesus Christ CONDONED slavery in the New Testament, he had a chance to speak out against it and he never did

You pick and choose what you wanna get out of the bible, interpretations of the bible and what people choose to get out of it is not consistent from person to person

Christians quote the Old Testament ALLL THE THE TIME, I was once a Christian I would know

If God was speaking to a specific group of people, why does the Old Testament even exist in churches to begin with and does that make these scriptures ok? And why did he focus on this specific group of people and not others? Why do these people get rules and everyone else get a "free pass" to get tattoos and smash women on the Sabbath?

Aight man I'm not here to argue.  You make it a point to not allow people to have an opinion.  I remember you from another thread.

You talk about people having choices and opinions but you don't give that liberty to everyone especially when you don't agree with them.

It's cookies.

  

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by jbone2308

You do realize you posted Old Testiment Scripture which God specifically was speaking to a certain group of people right?

So we cannot get piercings or tats either? Eat certain foods nor mix races by marrying outside of your own and having children?

Context of the scripture is key. That is why we got the "God hates" Church and churches who still think Jesus was white and slavery was ok.

I knew you'd say that, goes to find immorality in the new testament-A lot of Christians follow the old testament as well when it's CONVENIENT

The point still stands you pick and choose what you wanna take from the bible-Jesus Christ CONDONED slavery in the New Testament, he had a chance to speak out against it and he never did

You pick and choose what you wanna get out of the bible, interpretations of the bible and what people choose to get out of it is not consistent from person to person

Christians quote the Old Testament ALLL THE THE TIME, I was once a Christian I would know

If God was speaking to a specific group of people, why does the Old Testament even exist in churches to begin with and does that make these scriptures ok? And why did he focus on this specific group of people and not others? Why do these people get rules and everyone else get a "free pass" to get tattoos and smash women on the Sabbath?

Aight man I'm not here to argue.  You make it a point to not allow people to have an opinion.  I remember you from another thread.

You talk about people having choices and opinions but you don't give that liberty to everyone especially when you don't agree with them.

It's cookies.

  

WTH? Did I drag you out of your house, threaten your wife and kids, and put a gun to you testicles while telling you not to be a Christian?



Get outta here with all that,

  How does me arguing against you religion, take away your opinions? Or are you just insecure and know deep down that my opinions are more logical and sound than yours-either way I can't take away your opinions, you have to concede them by your own volition

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by NobleKane

wow where silly putty at? did he die? i was expecting an anti religion novel by now in here from him? anton better go check up on ya boy and see if he didnt have a heart attack from getting too riled up this time talking about religion lol

lol I'm sure he's doing something far more important than NT, contrary to popular belief he doesn't spend most of his energy on here arguing religion

don't know what's funnier, what noble said, or that anton actually came through to defend him.

 

[sillyputty]

[h3]WHY ARE YOU STILL CATHOLIC?[/h3]
This is an expanded version of a piece that was first published on AlterNet.

If your softball league or your children's school did what the Catholic Church is doing, you'd quit in outrage. So why are you still Catholic?

For any Catholics who might be reading this, I have a question for you:

Why are you still Catholic?

Presumably, I don't have to tell you about the rash of child-rape scandals in the Catholic Church. I don't have to tell you about the cover-ups, the shielding of child rapists in the priesthood from law enforcement, the deliberate shuttling of child-raping priests from town to town to protect them from exposure -- thus enabling them to continue raping children. I don't have to tell you about the Church using remote, impoverished villages as adumping ground for priests who raped children. I don't have to tell you that this wasn't a few isolated incidents: it was awidespread, institutional practice, authorized by high-level Church officials. Including Cardinal Ratzinger -- now Pope Benedict XVI -- who, among other actions taken to protect child raping priests, delayed the dismissal of a child rapist in the priesthood... for the "good of the universal Church."

And presumably, I don't have to tell you about the Church's response as this scandal has been exposed. I don't have to tell you that, overwhelmingly, they have stonewalled, rationalized, deflected blame. I don't have to tell you about the Church's "Come on, the kids weren't that young, most of them were over 11" defense, or their "Hey, everyone else is doing it" defense. I don't have to tell you how they've equated the accusations against the Church withanti-Semitism. I don't have to tell you how they've blamed the child-rape scandal on gays, the media, the Devil , even the rape survivors themselves. (No, really. From the Bishop of Tenerife: "There are 13 year old adolescents who are under age and who are perfectly in agreement with, and what's more wanting it, and if you are careless they will even provoke you.") I don't have to tell you that the Church is opposing a measure extending the statute of limitations on child rape. I don't have to tell you about the Pope's dismissal of the child-rapist-protection accusations as, quote, "petty gossip."

And I'm just focusing on the child rape scandal. I'm not even talking today about the other recent scandals in the Church: thegay prostitution ring, the Church banning the use of condoms in Africa to prevent the spread of AIDS, the rape of nuns by priestsand the ignoring/ concealment thereof.

You know about all of it.

So here's what I want to ask you:

Why are you still Catholic?

If these scandals had taken place in any organization other than a religious one -- would you still be part of it?

If it were your political party, your softball league, your university, your children's school, your employer? If any of those organizations were involved in a massive, global conspiracy to protect and conceal child rapists? If they responded when the scandal came to light by entrenching and rationalizing, blaming the victims and making counter-accusations? Not in a few isolated incidents, but as a massive, institution-wide culture, a matter of official policy even, that extended throughout the organization and reached all the way to the top?

Would you still be part of it? Would you still pay your league dues and show up for softball night? Would you still pay your tuition and send your kids off to the school every day?

Or would you be walking out in moral outrage? Would you be writing enraged letters to the organization's leadership -- and sending copies of those letters to your local newspaper -- explaining exactly why you can no longer be part of an organization that behaves so reprehensibly? Would you be picketing, exhorting other members to leave along with you, calling law enforcement to demand a response?

And if the latter -- then why on earth aren't you doing that with the Catholic Church?

I mean -- how bad does it have to get? Let's say I was making up a story about grotesque, nauseating, inexcusable- on- the- face- of- it evil; evil that would make all non-sociopathic people turn away in revolted horror at the very mention of it. And let's say that, to illustrate that evil, I made up an example of a powerful, global institution that concealed and protected child rapists, shuttled them from town to town, failed to inform law enforcement officers and in many cases actually stonewalled them, deliberately dumped the child rapists in remote, impoverished villages... and then, when the horror finally came to light, responded with defensive entrenchment and equated the accusations with either anti-Semitic bigotry or petty gossip.

If I wrote that story, people would think it was over the top. "That's ridiculous," they'd say. "You have to make your evil more believable, more human. Nobody really does that."

Well, people really do that.

The Church you belong to really does that.

Why on Earth are you still a part of it?

Maybe you stay because of your sincere religious faith. Maybe you sincerely believe that the Catholic Church is the only way to spiritual salvation, and that if you abandon it, you'll abandon your hope of paradise in the Afterlife.

If that's true, then my first question to you would be: Do you really believe that? If you disagree with the Church (as many Catholics do) on a huge number of substantial issues -- birth control, gay rights, women's rights, condom use for people with AIDS, etc., not to mention the institutional protection and cover-up of priests who rape children -- then what does it mean to say that you believe in the Church?

But let's say you're a more traditional Catholic. Let's say you do agree with the Church on most of these positions. All of them, even, except the one about protecting child rapists and thus perpetuating child rape. Or let's say you are a more moderate Catholic... but that your disagreement with the Church on major theological issues still doesn't interfere with your basic belief that the rites of the Church are necessary for your spiritual redemption.

I'd like to ask you to take a step back from your beliefs for a moment, and view them the way an outsider would. If someone else belonged to a religion that, say, protected men who torture and murder their wives; or a religion that practiced widespread fraud and theft from the desperately poor; or a religion that encouraged people to blow up buildings... would you nod sagely and say, "The sincerity of your faith is a good enough reason to stay in that religion"?

Or would you recoil in horror at how profoundly their fear of eternal punishment, and their desire for eternal reward, had bent their moral compass?

And if the latter -- then why should you treat your own religion any differently? Your Church protects child rapists, thus perpetuating more child rape. Why are you still a part of it?

Or maybe the religious part isn't so important to you. Maybe you don't have strong beliefs about Catholic theology being the only true theology. But you still defend the Church, and still participate in it, because they do charitable work that you support and want to be a part of. (An argument many people made when this piece was first published on AlterNet.)

In which case, I have to ask you:

Are you freaking kidding me?

There are thousands upon thousands of excellent charitable organizations in the world. Charitable organizations that don't protect child rapists, in a consistent, cold-blooded, institution-wide system of covering their #!@$#. I'll ask you the same question I asked about your job or your softball league or your kids' school: If any other charitable organization behaved the way the Catholic Church did -- if the Red Cross or the American Cancer Society shielded child rapists from exposure and law enforcement, shuttled them from town to town so they could keep raping children, and then stonewalled and rationalized and deflected blame when they got caught -- would you respond by saying, "Well, yes, sure they helped get a bunch of children raped... but look at all the good work they do! Doesn't that count for something? Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?"

Or instead, would you abandon that organization in revulsion, demand the arrest and prosecution of everyone involved, and immediately take your money and your time to a charity that didn't, you know, help rape children?

And maybe, again, the religious part isn't so important to you -- but you find the ritual of the Church comforting. It's been part of your life since you were a child, your family and friends all belong, you find the music and the stained glass and the reliability of the weekly ceremony to be profoundly soothing.

If so, then I have to take a deep breath and ask you: Are you really prioritizing your own comfort over the rape of children?

Are those really and truly your priorities? Is it more important to you that you be soothed and comforted than it is to not participate in an institution that protects and conceals child rapists and actively enables them to keep doing it indefinitely? When you put the horror and the suffering and the ruined lives caused by child rape on one side of the balance -- and the fact that you're comforted by soothing rituals and pretty music on the other -- do you honestly weigh those two considerations, and decide that your comfort comes out as the greater need?

And if not -- if you think, as I hope you would, as I hope anyone with a shred of morality would, that your personal comfort is worth sacrificing if it means not participating in an institution that perpetuates the widespread rape of children -- then why are you still part of this Church?

I don't care whether you believe in God or not. Well, okay, that's not true. I do care: I think religion is a mistaken idea about the world, I think that on the whole it does significantly more harm than good, and I'd love to see humanity let go of it. But if people's religious beliefs and practices don't hurt anyone else, then it's their business, and I don't really care all that much about them.

But see -- that's exactly the thing.

Belonging to the Catholic Church does hurt people.

Belonging to the Catholic Church gives your support to an organization that conceals and protects child rapists. Again, not as a few isolated incidents, but as a massive, institution-wide culture, a matter of policy even, that extends throughout the organization and reaches all the way to the top. Belonging to the Catholic Church -- giving them money, letting them count you in their rolls, sending your children to their schools -- gives this behavior your personal thumbs-up, and actively enables it to continue.

As long as Catholics stay Catholics, no matter how repulsively evil the Church's behavior becomes, no matter how many children get raped as a result of its institutional practices, then the Church is not going to change. It will have no reason to change. As long as Catholics continue to attend church, to donate money, to be counted in Church rolls, to send their children -- their children! -- to church and Catholic school for religious education and the perpetuation of Catholicism, then the Church will assume that it can do anything at all, with impunity. It will assume that it can... you know, I'm trying to think of an example of evil more grotesque and over-the-top than "protecting and concealing child rapists so they can go on raping children, just to protect the organization's public image," but I'm coming up short. It will assume that it can squander hospice donations on cocaine and hookers? Dump the Vatican's sewage into the Rome subway system? Torture kittens in St. Peter's Square? No. None of that is more grotesquely, over-the-top evil than protecting and concealing child rapists so they can go on raping children, just to protect the organization's public image.

If you stay in the Catholic Church, even after this scandal, you are essentially telling them, "Go ahead and protect child rapists. I don't care. As long as I personally get to keep taking Communion and go to Heaven when I die, whatever you do is hunky-dory with me. Your spiritual extortion -- your indoctrination of the idea that I will be tortured with burning and fire for all eternity if I don't drink your wine and eat your cracker -- has worked. You can do anything at all that you like. You won't hear a peep out of me."

Is that really what you want to be saying?

The only way -- and I mean the only way -- that the Catholic Church is going to change its stance on this issue, or indeed on any issue, is if Catholics vote with their feet, and get the hell out of there.

When are you going to do that?

To leave the Catholic Church, visit the Count Me Out website, which walks you through the process.

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

You notice these dudes can't create their own opinions. straight copy and pasting articles.

I swear some of these scientists had to have been raped by their dads or uncles.

they fumin'!!!!!!!!!!

in before but your catholic. I am nothing.

LOL at these dudes who can't form their own thoughts religious extremists just as bad as atheist extremists.

 

[bravo]

i dont even wanna get these so called Christians heated but the catholic church is the beast.

thats why these fools are always around evil.. you rarely hear this pop up among righteous people.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

You notice these dudes can't create their own opinions. straight copy and pasting articles.

I swear some of these scientists had to have been raped by their dads or uncles.

they fumin'!!!!!!!!!!

in before but your catholic. I am nothing.

LOL at these dudes who can't form their own thoughts religious extremists just as bad as atheist extremists.

Why should I?
It was a legitimate and concise presentation of ideas I 100% support and endorse. If I could have written it, I would have, however I did not, so I give credit where its due.

Should I laugh at you for using Newton's physics equations because you didn't come up with your own way to calculate the speed of an object in free-fall? 

No. 

Nothing you're saying discredits the opinion presented beyond your own bias to steadfastly hold to a losing argument. 

If you haven't realized, the Pope already has several countries OPENLY shunning him as well as their governments. The Vatican knows what time it is...

I'm not sure if you realized...this isn't about science...its about RAPING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

HELLO?!

Just stop  while you're behind. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by throwedyonasb

i dont even wanna get these so called Christians heated but the catholic church is the beast.

thats why these fools are always around evil.. you rarely hear this pop up among righteous people.

what you're doing is a logical fallacy called the "No True Scotsman." Look into it and what it means.

I don't want to get into the "which brand of christianity is the right one" because that argument will go over many heads, but to support the church as they CONTINUALLY turn a blind eye to gross negligence is tantamount to a conspiracy. 
If this were any other person who didn't threaten people with eternal damnation from a sky daddy, they would have been sent to the Hague and sentenced to (in Ratzingers case) life.

 

[sillyputty]

Jokes aside... ya'll can't be serious with this mess. Whether or not you believe in god, to even make this to be about atheists and believers is beyond me. You're defending a  dude who just took pedophiles and put them in more obscure locations with NO punishment and told them to "pray" about it... 

 

[ins]

What i never understood was why were there so many rape cases? Like i understand if one priest did it but not half of them. Its like they went to a summit and talked about it and everyone said they were gonna try it. Still confused about that.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by INS

What i never understood was why were there so many rape cases? Like i understand if one priest did it but not half of them. Its like they went to a summit and talked about it and everyone said they were gonna try it. Still confused about that.

They're probably fostering a culture of the mess  honestly. I really have no clue but my mom is like 55 and she said when she was back in Jamaica growing up she said she ALWAYS heard of this garbage and says its nothing new. 
That church is infested with some crazy people man... 

Its messed up but I honestly think its because priests in most catholic sects and regions can't get married and must be celibate...so you've got grown men that aren't getting any buns AND are by nature so religious that they believe all the ridiculous things they do... i'm not condoning it...but they probably struggle getting their rocks off...and take it out on those who won't fight back... Add to it that probably those who were molested end up doing it to others...and you've got a vicious cycle... 

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

I'm not sure if you realized...this isn't about science...its about RAPING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

HELLO?!

Just stop  while you're behind. 

relax guy it was a joke.
theses an old saying about the humor of rape and clowns

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

Originally Posted by sillyputty

I'm not sure if you realized...this isn't about science...its about RAPING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

HELLO?!

Just stop  while you're behind. 

relax guy it was a joke.
theses an old saying about the humor of rape and clowns

Yeah, it was a joke when you thought you had a point about people using science to disprove fallacious arguments.
Go back to defending pedophiles like you've been doing in here.