Manning, Luck, and Rodgers have plenty of the "other side" of what makes QB's great.
They didn't have the same team/org structure that others have. And that can't be measured.
QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 651akathepaul,
- Start date
Manning, Luck, and Rodgers have plenty of the "other side" of what makes QB's great.
They didn't have the same team/org structure that others have. And that can't be measured.
See, I think THIS is the biggest difference right here, for all of us.
Here is DSA who CLEARLY believes Brady to be the GOAT. Hard to argue based on resume, right? I certainly agree with a lot on Brady because I have followed them so closely over the years.
Look at his career tho.
Tuck rule.
Field Goals.
Helmet catch.
1 yard line INT
Philly Special
28-3
Offsides
You're talkin about a guy that ROUTINELY ends up on the right side of great luck. Last year he threw the game ending INT, only to have a guy lined up half a foot offsides negate it.
28-3 and he throws another "INT" that's dropped.
Russ at the 1 vs Marshawn.
Tuck Rule....
If Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Ryan, etc get those types of calls, we'd all be listening to their fanbases claim them as the GOAT. They didn't, so we don't.
Is Tom Brady the greatest QB in the history of the sport tho? No, not even close. But he has the best resume, and that too is not even close.
So when looking at that, HOW can people not grasp that sooooooooooooo much of the QB "legacy" is based on outside factors?
Aaron Rodgers couldn't win multiple titles with Bill Belichick and the NE Patriots?
Matt Ryan couldn't? Peyton?
Iono, I see it clear as day, but I know not all of you agree. That's fine. I will continue to watch the sport and find more and more examples for you all to ignore. QBWINZ
- 10,745
- 9,047
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2008
dudes really pretending the organization you wind up on isn't a huge factor in QB success?
elpablo21
Supporter
- 102,284
- 181,826
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
Who said that?
- 17,264
- 27,199
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2012
Not a single person said this. In fact, no one has given a single reason as to why Luck was the better NFL quarterback other than he was a better college prospect. Spoiler: You cant
We have basically gotten to the point where we throw out actual production and results and just say it doesn’t matter because of the organization. It’s literally the exact opposite
I’ll start by giving reasons why Russ is the better NFL quarterback
He is more accurate
He turns the ball over far less
He is able to navigate through a ****ty offensive line much better
He is better at creating plays
He has more 4th quarter comebacks
He arguable has the better arm (definitely the better arm in 2018 )
He was absolutely more durable
So looking outside the organization and college production what’s the argument?
Last edited:
Clyde Frog
formerly jay02
- 12,617
- 7,475
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
I always thought you were trolling but damn you really believe that.
The amount of times Rodgers has lost a coin flip in OT and never see the ball alone pains me.
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- 105,964
- 51,884
- Joined
- May 31, 2004
i always find the "structure and consistency" for Brady argument a bit funny. no team's offense has morphed as much and often as NE's over the years. no QB has adapted as much as and excelled as much at it than Brady. it goes overlooked because people (not you, again) just ooh and ahh over fantasy numbers , hail mary's, and an amazing throw here and there. dudes can throw it a mile into a bucket but won't take the gimme 4 yard checkdown to win/end the game if that's what the defense is giving you...some people call that dinking and dunking but that's quarterbacking. it's how you hang 28 on the number 1 pass defense in the league instead of 8 in the super bowl. even when they know you have to pass the **** out of the ball. it's how you comeback from 25 down in the Super Bowl. again, even when they know you have to pass the **** out of the ball. yes you get help from your team. no one is denying that. but adapting to what the defense shows you is quarterbacking and some of these guys people love don't do it or don't do it nearly enough. blah blah i digress. i'll head to the sidelines on this one
Last edited:
- 17,264
- 27,199
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2012
It’s not even fantasy stats and all that ****. Actual production, Rodgers best year would be Brady’s 6th best year.
Last edited:
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- 105,964
- 51,884
- Joined
- May 31, 2004
i 100% think Brady is a better quarterback. Fraud is more skilled and talented throwing the ball...100%. but QB is more than that. Fraud is the best pure passer I've seen with Mahomes already closing in. sure.
and again, if i had one game to win and my life was on the line, i'm taking Brady
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- 105,964
- 51,884
- Joined
- May 31, 2004
See, I think THIS is the biggest difference right here, for all of us.
Here is DSA who CLEARLY believes Brady to be the GOAT. Hard to argue based on resume, right? I certainly agree with a lot on Brady because I have followed them so closely over the years.
Look at his career tho.
Tuck rule.
Field Goals.
Helmet catch.
1 yard line INT
Philly Special
28-3
Offsides
You're talkin about a guy that ROUTINELY ends up on the right side of great luck. Last year he threw the game ending INT, only to have a guy lined up half a foot offsides negate it.
28-3 and he throws another "INT" that's dropped.
Russ at the 1 vs Marshawn.
Tuck Rule....
If Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Ryan, etc get those types of calls, we'd all be listening to their fanbases claim them as the GOAT. They didn't, so we don't.
Is Tom Brady the greatest QB in the history of the sport tho? No, not even close. But he has the best resume, and that too is not even close.
So when looking at that, HOW can people not grasp that sooooooooooooo much of the QB "legacy" is based on outside factors?
Aaron Rodgers couldn't win multiple titles with Bill Belichick and the NE Patriots?
Matt Ryan couldn't? Peyton?
Iono, I see it clear as day, but I know not all of you agree. That's fine. I will continue to watch the sport and find more and more examples for you all to ignore. QBWINZ
game can turn on 100s of plays tho. not just the last play. how you going to (again) dumb it down like that?
Clyde Frog
formerly jay02
- 12,617
- 7,475
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
I’m gonna come back to this when I have time
- 146,560
- 192,863
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
yea.. there are better talents
but alot obviously goes into football
peyton manning being a perfect example where situations got the best of him at times.. then you got health considerations and all that.. and what guys are asked to do within their offenses and also who they're asked to do it with
but alot obviously goes into football
peyton manning being a perfect example where situations got the best of him at times.. then you got health considerations and all that.. and what guys are asked to do within their offenses and also who they're asked to do it with
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- 105,964
- 51,884
- Joined
- May 31, 2004
for sure. and don't think i'm part of that group who that dude above said "the org you're on doesn't matter"
i know the packers have had their issues and Fraud has had to deal with it
- 23,316
- 11,740
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2012
There are so many fallacious parts of this argument that it’s impossible to even address them all, but one thing that Russell Wilson was somehow not an impact player his first three seasons and was along for the ride. Russell Wilson tied Peyton Manning for the most TD passes as a rookie. He also had a 100 passer rating and 10 INts to Luck’s 18. Wilson has literally been better since Day 1. There’s one area where Luck has consistently been better: Yard Volume. That’s it.
The whole “surrounding talent” argument is one for another day, but let me just say that it loses its bite when one player has won a super bowl and gone to back to back and the other has had minimal playoff success. It’s not exactly apples to apples “Oh this guy has better stats his whole career and won way more but he’s actually worse because his team is better.” That’s reductionist to the point of absurdity.
Additionally it’s based on the idea that having a great defense makes a QB perform better statistically which we have about 10 million examples to the contrary. Meantime Russ has dealt with an O-line many times worse even than Luck’s, played in a much more competitive division, and has done everything better.
The whole “surrounding talent” argument is one for another day, but let me just say that it loses its bite when one player has won a super bowl and gone to back to back and the other has had minimal playoff success. It’s not exactly apples to apples “Oh this guy has better stats his whole career and won way more but he’s actually worse because his team is better.” That’s reductionist to the point of absurdity.
Additionally it’s based on the idea that having a great defense makes a QB perform better statistically which we have about 10 million examples to the contrary. Meantime Russ has dealt with an O-line many times worse even than Luck’s, played in a much more competitive division, and has done everything better.
C'mon, you know I have not just listed last plays of games.
I've given dozens of examples of missed picks etc.So a QB that throws for 103 yards on 9 completions VS DREW BREES, in a playoff game, is NOT, being carried?
Same QB is in the Super Bowl vs the #1 offensive team in history, with PEYTON MANNING, is up 29-0 and has less than a hundred yards, and no TD’s, THEN throws for 2 scores, is somehow, NOT being carried? A 4 TD lead vs the #1 offense in history without lifting a finger is not being carried?
A QB that throws FOUR INT’s vs AARON RODGERS, and still gets the win, wasn’t carried?
If that’s your stance, I don’t know what to say. Any other Quarterback on the planet would get friggin buried against Brees, Peyton, and Rodgers, and he won all 3 games. Because of a legendary defense. LEGENDARY defense. They held 3 ridiculously elite QB’s down, and Russ was able to benefit, the absolute definition of being carried. And if you want to just go with regular season, they were historically superior on defense for those years. They were 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens level defense across multiple seasons, not just those singular years I mentioned for the Bears/Ravens. He was Jim McMahon and Trent Dilfer with more running ability and a hotter wife. (Relax, I know he was a better thrower than both of them, calm down
) But he was NOT out there slingin it. You know it, I know it, we all know it. We’ve brought this up 2,739 times on NT for the past several years. There are dozens of examples.
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- 105,964
- 51,884
- Joined
- May 31, 2004
C'mon, you know I have not just listed last plays of games.
you've listed one per game...versus the countless other plays within one game that can swing the game.
example...everyone points to lynch not getting the ball and the butler INT because of that. conveniently, they forget about the miracle sideline catch that occurred two plays earlier. so i'm to believe we got "lucky" with the INT but the seahawks weren't "lucky" to be at the goal line to start with? and round and round we can go with breaks and calls within a game....
Last edited:
Oh no brother, I did not forget that AT ALL.
In fact, Dan Patrick just the other day was talkin about how great Russ was on that drive........? He had a GREAT throw to Lynch at the 2 minute warning, and then the hail catch on dudes back. Great?
I just didn't list it because the pick was enough to make everyone remember said game. Just like helmet catch wasn't the game winner, it was just a huge piece.
- 139
- 191
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
Russ should have told the defense to suck so he could light up the scoreboard I guess.
funny thing about sports is that you can almost always find some meaningless stat or hypothetical situation to give you some type of “winning” argument. We clearly see it in this thread
funny thing about sports is that you can almost always find some meaningless stat or hypothetical situation to give you some type of “winning” argument. We clearly see it in this thread
- 17,264
- 27,199
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2012
The only thing that has been said about Luck being greater than Russ is his organization is better. Guess Derek Carr is better than Russ too since we are throwing out QBs from **** organizations.
- 146,560
- 192,863
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
Devin Hester is the GOAT returner, in spite of what madden says, dude was far from the fastest or more talented at that spot
dude was the quickest ether
but in the game of football, he was better than everyone else at that thing
same applies to all other positions on the field
dude was the quickest ether
but in the game of football, he was better than everyone else at that thing
same applies to all other positions on the field
- 20,169
- 4,154
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2007
Y’all see Ryan Tannehill is about to start again?
I think he may do well.
I think he may do well.
- 57,877
- 29,277
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2005
You heard the man...rank them QBs!
Jimmy G is 14-2 in his NFL career.
Also, last week Russ had the highest QB rating and was on a 2nd place team and was the MVP.
This week Cousins has the highest QB rating and is on a 2nd place team, so I think that means he's the MVP now? How does this work?
Also, last week Russ had the highest QB rating and was on a 2nd place team and was the MVP.
This week Cousins has the highest QB rating and is on a 2nd place team, so I think that means he's the MVP now? How does this work?
- 27,978
- 9,062
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2007
I will participate. Rankings for me are based on the 2019 season and the 2019 season alone. Not how they have done in years past. Not how they will project for the future. Based on being totally healthy this season:
1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Russell Wilson
6. Deshaun Watson
7. Ben Roethlisberger
8. Phillip Rivers
9. Lamar Jackson
10. Jacoby Brissett
11. Matt Ryan
12. Jimmy Garoppolo
13. Kirk Cousins
14. Matt Stafford
15. Jared Goff
16. Nick Foles
17. Carson Wentz
18. Dak Prescott
19. Derek Carr
20. Kyler Murray
I'm done at 20. And This was done quickly so I reserve the right to change it after thinking on it more.
1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Russell Wilson
6. Deshaun Watson
7. Ben Roethlisberger
8. Phillip Rivers
9. Lamar Jackson
10. Jacoby Brissett
11. Matt Ryan
12. Jimmy Garoppolo
13. Kirk Cousins
14. Matt Stafford
15. Jared Goff
16. Nick Foles
17. Carson Wentz
18. Dak Prescott
19. Derek Carr
20. Kyler Murray
I'm done at 20. And This was done quickly so I reserve the right to change it after thinking on it more.
