Serious Discusssion (Paging ABH, Illionaire, NostrandAve, Ben Baller):The State of Hip Hop Music

Discussion in 'Music' started by blackmagnus514, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. blackmagnus514

    blackmagnus514

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    So...in this discussion give your opinions on the current state of hip hop music. I want this to be as objective and unbiased as possible. Also, with yourcriticism of the music, propose what you think could @ least mend the wounds.

    Me personally, I'm a bit jaded. It seems like all of the old artists are losing relevance and the new cats all seem to not stand out enough. Drake and Bluare dumb talented to me, but will they get the push? From a mkting standpoint, Drake is like the total package. Looks, good beat selection, lyrics; subjectmatter wise, he reminds me of Fabolous only with a slightly more vulnerable, human side (ie, we get to see him when he aint blinging)...Blu appeals to mebecause he can rhyme but he's like the cat next door you might've shot hoops with or smoked a L with...

    The reason I'm a bit jaded is because it's a formula. Record labels are dedicated to the bottom line and at the risk of the art suffering, artists aretoo pressured to make commerical singles. Look @ 'Kiss. Someone on here made a comment that he's gonna be 15 yrs in the game with only 4 albums and icant even argue. It's horrible for a veteran artist with that skill level to still be It's also a well known fact that artists make more $ outside ofrap than they do in it....hence labels creating 360 deals where they basicall get a piece of EVERYTHING (merchandise, tour $ ([​IMG][​IMG]), endorsements, etc). Why an artist would sign one is beyond me.

    A&Rs signing wack %$% talent. I'm @ a label right now and some of the acts that I've seen signed and have to ship mailings out for are ridiculous.Cats like Playaz Circle, Unladylike, etc...Artists jerking producers...not giving talented producers an ear because they dont have a brand name behind theirbeats....artists having to make a damn dance single..artists on Youtube flossing how much $ they got when it's an advance..talented artists blacking outand being disloyal to their managers and not knowing how the industry game is played, ie not knowing about advances and recouping... (I was doing some workwith a client for my own company...these chicks went through their managers phone and called up EVERYONE to bad mouth the manager behind her back).....I'mnot even gonna get into NY right now....

    The game needs a red bull..a cat like X...raw as hell but you could ultimately relate to him and his story...a cat like Hov...kickin' in the door andmaking his way in without a major pressuring him to make X type of single....it's like all the artist making their own push are just trash...it'sterrible...there are some cats who can perform but they dont have the total package...

    I propose that labels let artists have more control of their own promotional efforts (ie Freeway doing the Month of Madness/Chris doing the 30 verses). Thepeople need someone who can relate to them...in general, people will support an artist they feel they've grown with. Labels need to let artist tour withouttrying to be on some 70/30 !*% regarding tours. Do away with "artist development". It's useless. Match ILL beats with hot lyrics (ie CHWM)
     
  2. scotthallwithapick

    scotthallwithapick

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    I know you aint page me but I'm responding anyway. [​IMG] I'm a say what I said in the other thread it's the audience that is mostly the blame. Rightnow you have to force me to buy your product because I can easily get it for free. So you have to convince enough people that you have an amazing product thatis worth my income, recession or not people will purchase a quality product.

    And Itunes built their campaign off of this. Their whole slogan was "Dont you hate buying CD's and everyone song besides the single was basura?"And it's true and now look at us on NT if it ain't our favorite artist or close to a classic we don't even think twice about buying it. But I agreewith you we need does Type "X" rappers. Because when you have those complete packages the audience feels happy and will not only support them butalso the ones who arent complete packages because they fill a niche for them.

    I honestly don't see anyone new coming up going big. You say Drake but I only see it if he flips his whole image and goes the pop route with songs likeBrand New (which 5 years ago could have easily been a single for a platinum plaque album). I just don't see anyone creating a buzz that makes me sayhe's coming with something new and sparks my interest. I have been in love with music all my life, I don't even know why I'm on NT because when Iwould try to buy $200 shoes I would go nah that's at least a solid 4 concerts and pull my money back. But as far as the average listener you need to lightsomething under them that they can't ignore. You have to force people to have an opinion. Right now people are ehh about artists/songs/and albums. You haveto force it down their thoat and say "You gonna love this or hate this but you will know this"

    But with all that typing I just did I dont have an answer. But one thing I do know is music will never die so even though it's all !%%@#+ up now Itwon't be forever and good music is always being found. And it's not that hard we just got to weed out the copycats. Tell these new rappers we alreadyhave Hov, Wayne, T.I, 50 Cent. So no matter how good you are at that style I'm a choose them over you 100% of the time. So you have to bring something elseto the table cause we aint buying that no more
     
  3. lesfamilia

    lesfamilia

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    Ultimately, I believe more artists should put their careers into their own hands and go indie. I used to be a huge advocate for joint venture deals, but atthe end of the day, even those seem to restrict what an artist really wants to do. Back in '06, I felt like hip-hop was dying a slow death, but the more Ithink about it now, it's experiencing a renaissance. Acts like Pacific Division and the Knux are showing people that hip-hop is still alive.
     
  4. jamesonnt

    jamesonnt

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    Drake honestly will be the measuring stick for the near future/new artists.

    If he doesn't do well mainstream then IDK.
     
  5. lakersmets49ers

    lakersmets49ers Banned

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    in a nutshell i want an east coast / west coast rivalry to happen all over again minus all the negativity that came from it during 1995, 1996. more of afriendly rivalry this time with both sides on some anything you can do i can do better mentality.

    really though both sides released some heat amd i think the competition brought out the best from both sides
     
  6. thunderchunk69

    thunderchunk69

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    they need to stop trying to sell cds and start selling an experience.

    concerts, dvds, barenaked ladies had their own cruise with their fans... thats a lot more intimate and profitable than an album will ever be [​IMG]
     
  7. scotthallwithapick

    scotthallwithapick

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    Sorry but I disagree with this 100%. That could quite possibly be the worst thing that can happen. Yeah doing that helped Crooked I, Freeway,Chris become NT household names but outside of that It does nothing but hurt them. Crooked dropped 52 weeks of flame ill %%% lyrics but by week 20 he waslabeled as "That's all he can do he can't make songs" so thta backfired.

    And the other 2 artists it went like this. You have 3 types of people. People that like you, people on the fence and people that dont like you.
    1) They like you after 30 songs they're still gonna like you
    2)On the fence they are going to either feel oversaturated and not really care or just feel like you giving away good product it aint no classic album work soit lowers the value of the music
    3)They don't like you and now they just don't like you that much more

    I honestly think people saw what Wayne was doing it and are trying to emulate it but not understanding the work that went in. I mean one Carter 2 came out late05/early 06 I forget so for 2 and 1/2 years he was dropping countless mixtapes and features and all of them had to be original. Whether you think Wayne is wackor not every feature he dropped was new and made you go "I havent heard that said like that before" whether good or bad. He stayed inthe studio and created this buzz that I have never seen before. Even with the 50 buzz it was just music and beef. With wayne buzz he was slowly becoming anidol. And even if, if, if (yeah it's a big if) one person can do this and put forth the effort in 2 and 1/2years. That means over 30 months with 4 release dates a mopnth that's 120 CD's being released 1 artist gets superstar fame. That's not going towork.
     
  8. blackmagnus514

    blackmagnus514

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  9. crossisom

    crossisom

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    Damn, I give legit unbiased opinions too.

    *walks away with head down
     
  10. awwsome

    awwsome

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    [​IMG]
     
  11. abeautifulhaze

    abeautifulhaze

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    The media business model that has been in effect for the last 100 years is now defunct and has been that way for about 7-8 years now.

    Broadband killed the radio star (and the magazine star, the television star & the movie star)

    With the widespread accessibility of broadband internet, a new means of media distribution was established. But almost all "blue chip" mediacompanies were too greedy, lazy, technologically backwards, slow, stubborn, comfortable, reluctant to listen to and employ their customers and now look whathappened....profits have been cut in half across the board and publications that have been global bibles for decades (Wall Street Journals, NY Times) are nowdamn near irrelevant.

    Like SHWAP said its all about branding and image and very few artists and companies have found that balance between selling product in brick and mortarlocations and online...but look at the few companies that have gotten it right...like Apple. As soon as Napster hit the scene, Steve Jobs knew what it was andwhile other CEOs laughed at him and waited for Apple to file for bankruptcy...Jobs build an elite and untouchable image for his product and secured his meansof digital distribution...to the point where Apple makes like an eighth of the entire profit of the global music industry.

    Right now the scramble is on. Companies are trying to keep their head above the water and transition their product to the digital world before its too late.EGM magazine just went out of business, the size of the Source and XXL has been cut in half with the adspace doubled...CBS, NBC. ABC...they are losing theviewers in their most important demographics (us)....blogs and start up websites are just the better product. Why pay for a magazine with pics and stories thatare weeks old, when you can pick from dozens of free sites/blogs, which are updated by the second and you can instantly interact, shape and download thecontent whenever you feel like?

    Why go buy a trash album for $10 - $17 when you can get it for free online? Why even buy a CD in the first place when everyone is walking around with MP3players and music phones? The old music industry is slowly committing suicide and all of their potential profits are leaking onto the net as we speak. TheInternet is the New Frontier, the Wild Wild West, The California Gold Rush....and its wide open for the taking.

    As far as the quality of music goes....I think that it is actually better right now than it has been in the last decade. There is so much good music to choosefrom. Whatever kind of music you like, there are dozens of artists that are rapping as good as anyone else who has made that kind of Hip-Hop before. Budden,Ortiz, Maino, Fab, Drake, Brisco, Jeezy, T.I., Nas, Jay, Kanye, Charles Hamilton, B.o.B, Ross, Chris, Wale, Crooked I, Kiss, Max B, Juels, Pacific Divsion,Cudi, Uncle Murda, Pap, Common, Lupe, Royce....the music is there in abundance... the problem is the distribution, branding, image and marketing. Hov used tobe on like half a dozen magazine covers per month, every month...Blaze, XXL, Vibe, The Source, Scratch, UK music mags, Word Up., etc...you knew his story, hisimage was clear, you knew when his album was dropping and what to expect, his publicists were able to spin any controversies, beef, current events in whateverlight they wanted because the means of distributing info and media were clear...not anymore. Now even with an artist of Jay's caliber...his image andproduct information are all over the place. Someone might bump into an unflattering pic, rumor, video, diss track, sub-par unreleased record, etc over the netand their perception about him changes. Instead of..."I can't wait for that new Hov!"...it's "I don't know about this _. Imma DL andsee whats up".


    Artists and music companies alike, just need to get with the program and step into the digital age because there is billions just floating around out here. Thechange is coming but its happening slowly. Soon iTunes will be fully integrated into most cellphones and you will be able to buy music on a whim from wherever.Cats just need to build their brand, solidify their image and let the music listener/consumer know what to expect from their music. That why Weezy and Ye arewinning and Drake is on a path for success...their images are clear, you know what they are about musically and their products are easy to obtain legally. Ifyou think about it their current buzz has been generated and sustained almost 100% from the net....their joints leak online and then go to radio, theirinterviews and gossip starts online...then goes to the magazines and television. And Drake is a total net sensation with the potential to pop because he'shandling his career right.

    Wayne is smart enough to stay away from the beefing and the random WSHH, Youtube videos cause it dilutes your image and gives cats a reason to hate on you andsteal your product, instead of showing support and legally purchasing it. You shouldn't go on just any TV show and give interviews,perform or act afool....so why be all over the web misrepresenting yourself and your product. Thats what a lot of these dudes don't understand...you are your product. Ye,Wayne and Drake are digital artists and they (Ye and Weezy) happen to be managed by the same cats that were behind Jay. Young Hip-Hop cats (Hip-Hop and Gee of"Hip-Hop Since 1978") who know what the consumer wants and needs because they are the consumer themselves.

    Everything is coming full circle and us music listeners that are plugged in to the Matrix and getting blessed with some great music right now...its too badthat few people are realizing how to capitalize off of this Renaissance...so far.

    *Yo Illionaire and TDot .....stop f_ around and get y'all money. Y'all _s wasting time (not really wasting) on NT, when y'all got what it takes toget some of these digital dollars. Y'all know what i'm talking about.
     
  12. t0xicman

    t0xicman Banned

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    The State of Hip Hop Music...is New york
     
  13. illionaire

    illionaire

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    hmmm..

    to be honest, the problem is majors ain't signing artists anymore, they're signing labels. it's almost stupid for a rapper to want to sign to amajor at this day and age. you will definitely get jerked no matter what (pause). just go independent for your own sake. once labels see that you've builta brand, they'll be interested in you. labels want to do as little work as possible and use as little marketing dollars as possible. me and Karsten alreadyestablished that Jada's done for.. he's almost not even relevent to the mainstream anymore. "Right now I'm currently a slave for Interscope Def Jam.." [​IMG][​IMG] i've held an internship at KOCH Entertainment here for over a year and i do also findmyself packging cd's that need to be mailed out to media outlets (tv, radio, magazines, newspapers, etc) and tell myself that these are some of the wackestartists out and they probably going to end up selling close to nothing which is a damn shame.. but i still feel that some of these artists just need to goindependent and get over it.

    now, some artists ain't dumb. the smart ones have already made the switch over to New Media. look at some of them. they've got official Youtubechannels, Twitters [​IMG][​IMG], blogs,etc. leaks ain't even hurting artists as much as you think they are. some of these artists careers have been built on leaks. i mean, ifthe music is good, the music is good. people will buy it no matter what. another problem is, some of these artists are trying to use the Lil' Wayne formula and will try to release as much material as they can and oversaturate the market. i mean, it worked forWayne, it will not work for everyone.

    p.s. It still boggles my mind as to where Lil Wayne came from. i mean, wasn't he just another member of the HotBoys at one point?

     
  14. ilovehiphop43

    ilovehiphop43

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    abeautifulhaze made a great point ..alot of great points...i think that some of the blame is on the consumer. hiphop fans treat it like pro sports.
    "i like ...." "so i dont like ..." whereas back in the day dudes liked everybody... and hiphop is exxxxxtra territorial now. and last butnot least with the whole myspace and blog thing poppin ..EVERYBODY is a rapper. I think HipHop is the only genre where an enitre block/neighborhood has morepeople who "rap"then not.
     
  15. nostrandave68

    nostrandave68

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    With the radio now becoming an irrelevant form of media in terms of hip-hop I think there's a chance hip-hop will return back to its essence, gottaremember its radio that pushed all this garbage gimmicky hip-hop, in the 90's gimmick rap was pushed by TV but there was still radio which was viewed as acredible outlet... now neither TV or radio are credible in terms of quality music that's the greatness of the internet... with the internet now you havemore access to music that serves to a person's liking plus the internet is more engaging than tv or radio, you not only have the ability to listeninstantly to an artist's entire mixtape or album catalog but actually discuss music, the internet now breaks more artists than radio. Remember back in theday when the radio would break mad artists well now that is no more. Most people would say the only downside to the internet is that it hurts album sales whichis true but most insiders know rappers make close to 70% of their income off touring and doing shows, they actually might lose money off albums sales if thelabel gives them a high recoup rate and they don't meet it so to me if i don't buy Ghostface's album i'll still go to his show and put my moneydirectly into his pocket.

    The least profitable hip-hop gets the better quality music will emerge because record execs will have no choice but to add more diversity to their labelsinstead of just packaging one thing or catering to one demographic . Record execs are so short sighted its amazing, they just look go about signing cats usingthe instant hit approach not realizing a rapper with more longevity = more money generating. Think about it if you were to add up the record sales of Jay, Em,Wu-Tang, Outkast, Nas etc their total albums sold would be close to 100 Million that figure probably far exceeds the albums sales of 1hit wonders generatedover the span of 20 years... so why not sign a quality rapper that might experience longevity and potential for steady sales in the future rather than a groupthat drops 1 album and scans gold. Look at Lil Wayne his breakout year in the mainstream was 08 well he dropped his first album in 99 now he was the highestselling artist of 08, same with T.I. Tip came out when Beenie Man was hot in 01 fastfoward and he's one of the biggest hip-hop artists... so what theseexecs just need to learn is to have more patience and allow time for an artist to grown. The reason why gimmicks became so rampant is A&R's became lazyand also because labels wanted instant success and, its such a flawed way of conducting business. Its like a 1st time entrepreneur thinking his business willturn profit within 1 year when actually it takes most businesses on average 3 years to see real profit any profit recieved in the 1st & 2nd year goesdirectly back in to provide stability. Its truly amazing how some execs have no shame in the product they produce i mean how can any real music cat say with astraight face... yo i signed the Shop Boyz, i gave G Spot Boyz their first deal.... back in the day dudes had "integrity" imagine the selfgratification of saying you discovered Lauryn Hill or gave Nas his first deal.
     
  16. 75 partly cloudy

    75 partly cloudy

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    I'm going to use myself as an example....

    The thing with alot of "new" or "young" artist is that there is no maturation process anymore. We are forced to grow up in front of ouraudience/potential fans. This may work for few acts but as a whole it gets alot of people in trouble. In a industry that tells you "wheres yourbuzz?" artist are put in a space where they are constantly chasing instead of being in control. Everybody is trying to get the same youtube play ormyspace view. Alot of artist would be better off if somebody came to them and said "your talented but not ready yet, lets develop this" which used tobe the case. Today however you shoot a video for worldstarhiphop and if you get the most views they allow you "in the building".

    On the whole itunes/download issue I don't possibly see how anybody could ever really argue the fact that having a imaginary file on your computer isbetter than owning a album. If music is really that disposable to peoples lives then why even do it. I would like to think that its still very important andhopefully sooner than later something can be resolved and both artists and fans of their music can be happy.

    Somebody tell me why or how "Rockin that Thang" by The Dream and Stevie Wonders "Ribbon in the Sky" can both be 99 cents? [​IMG]
     
  17. blackmagnus514

    blackmagnus514

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    F---...i just typed up some stuff but my net blacked out. What up Wale
     
  18. blackmagnus514

    blackmagnus514

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  19. zsong

    zsong

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    It's simply because the Internet media sites such as Youtube and even more Myspace usage/dependence lets any no name rapper from New York toNowheresville, Kansas have exposure to his/her life for anyone to see....it's like the clothing store doors opened, and all the shoppers are rushing in toget the exclusive sales... no control, no 'tact'
    Just doing it cause it's there, and doing it to the extreme

    In time [or already for smart artists] people will regain their composure and approach Internet presence/marketing more intelligently and more RESPECTABLY

    _
     
  20. f3rn7

    f3rn7

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    There is too much on the internet to where anyone can proclaim to be a rapper with youtube, myspace or any other outlet on the internet. So there is just anover saturation of garbage and noise everybody wanting to be the next soulja boy making up dances or poppy rap which really is turning into its own sub genre. Originality will never be attractive to labels because it is not safe, too high of a risk to place money on something that may flop then you're the dudethat brought garbage to the table claiming it to be the next big thing. Its just like movies its all remakes no one wants to make a new or innovative movie,remakes have built in audiences someone already did the leg work for you, all you're doing is polishing it off putting it back on the market and reapingthe benefits.
    I believe good music will still sell someone will still back it but making money just off record sales is dead, like someone said you need to sell a packagethings you can't download. Artist are going to need to put their name out there use the music as a promo and put on shows for money. Consumers need theexpirience everyone wants everything right now and with the help of the internet everything is available instantly thats why print media is slowly dying,tomorrow is too late to read the news. Once a fan base is built and you have "brand loyalty" where people feel they can trust, and now you are goingto deliver a good product then you can expect them to buy an album. There is just too many albums with one or two good songs no one wants to pay $15 for onlytwo songs they will enjoy, everyone has is walking around with an MP3 player why buy the entire album from itunes when i only like three songs or forget buyingjust download it for free.
     
  21. youngjordan23

    youngjordan23

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    Personally i feel the rap game is in the midst of a rennaisance right now. Look At the new dudes making noise Drake, Wale, Kid Cudi, Charles Hamilton,Aster Roth, B.O.B, etc do u see a trend hear all these artist are being thereselves and it shows in there music. For the first time in years artist arestarting to realize that acting like someone else or bringing nothing new to the table isn't going to get u anywhere. Even the average music consumer istired of the fake image and the trash music. And this shows with every Rapper that has a number 1 single and then proceeds to flop afterwards. The only rappersthat are selling right now are Jay, Jeezy, Kanye, Luda, Wayne, and all these artist have been developed they have had a chance to prove to the public that theywill give you a consistently good product.

    IMO the lack of artist development is whats killing hiphop. Music consumers generally buy what is forced upon them. If they continue to see someone on T.V,Magazines, Hear there songs, Hear the claims that there really that good, that generates an idea that the artist must be good if they are being showcased somuch. After that thought is established the consumer then switches from "listener" to "Fan" and that's when an artist can get to themagnitude of a wayne or kanye.

    Nowadays if an artist doesn't go plat first time it's ova for your career because not only did u flop but u flopped with a trash album. Example LupeF&L - Souljah boy tell em. Lupe First disk flopped but the music was great so whoever bought the first album is gonna be inclined to buy the secondexpecting to hear more great music. In the Reverse U have souljah boy people buy the album and get 12 tracks of garbage so when u come around with the secondalbum and don't recreate "Crank Dat" there is nothing left to sell the masses. The consumer may be easily fooled but there not stupid theyaren't gonna go buy trash especially when people could go get it for free
     
  22. barack 0drama

    barack 0drama

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    It's a sad state of affairs. The artform is in purgatory.

    Artist development is dead. Labels want their artists to already be pre-packaged and ready to be released so they only have to do 50% of the work and makealmost 100% of the profit. You have to have a built-in buzz, fanbase, a healthy catalog of material, and potential hit singles already on stash beforethey'll even look at you.

    What needs to happen is, Major labels need to die off, And a new outlet needs to emerge where we can take ownership our own careers and not be slaves to amachine. We as artists need to cut out the middleman/pimp and take control of our own products/destinies.

    I'm always online studying viral/guerilla marketing, Trying to figure out different and innovative ways to build my brand and market myself, Because Ican't sit around and wait for somebody to do it for me.

    As stated previously, YouTube & WSHH single-handedly killed 106, Rap City, And TRL, Blogs killed mags (Bloggers are the new DJ). I don't know where wego from here...
     
  23. true 3 blue

    true 3 blue

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  24. thunderchunk69

    thunderchunk69

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    good and bad.
    some great artists are business illiterate.
    we want artists, not businessmen.
    with that attitude Fat Joe and Puff are some of the best rappers [​IMG]

    edit: I just think these labels are way toooo slow
    they are making artists sign 360 deals... yet they're using the same blueprints from before...
    be a little imaginative... tours/cruises/vacations with artists
    smaller venues for higher prices...

    the stuff they used to do for sweepstakes they can charge for, 50 went out and made thisis50.com.......... labels still have crappy "bio" pages formost of their artists. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  25. blackmagnus514

    blackmagnus514

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