SPECIFIC Skills of Individual NBA Players That You Feel Are Overrated?

[eight2one]

Originally Posted by pdouly33

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Stuckey's athleticism; yea he is strong for the point position but coming out of Eastern Washington they talked like this dude has a wizard of an athlete. I don't see it today, maybe something happened. Who knows?

You can add his PG skills.

so true.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

I been saying Kobe only plays D sometimes, more than half the time he's just chillin on D.

People saying LeBron's D is overrated need to really watch dude is the best perimeter defender in the league and has made huge strides since his rookie year, plus he plays the best free safety in basketball.


Defensive Rating (Points allowed per 100 possessions)

[table][tr][td]1.[/td] [td]Dwight Howard-ORL[/td] [td]94.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2.[/td] [td]Kevin Garnett-BOS[/td] [td]97.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3.[/td] [td]LeBron James-CLE[/td] [td]99.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4.[/td] [td]Anderson Varejao-CLE[/td] [td]100.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5.[/td] [td]Kendrick Perkins-BOS[/td] [td]100.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6.[/td] [td]Tim Duncan-SAS[/td] [td]100.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7.[/td] [td]Zydrunas Ilgauskas-CLE[/td] [td]100.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8.[/td] [td]Chris Andersen-DEN[/td] [td]100.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9.[/td] [td]Yao Ming-HOU[/td] [td]100.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10.[/td] [td]Rajon Rondo-BOS[/td] [td]100.9[/td] [/tr][/table]

and the only wing player in the top 10 in defensive rating

He's not even the best perimeter defender on his team.

 

[viiheaven]

David Lee forgot how to play defense. I don't blame him, pre-D'Antoni he was learning, getting better every game. But when D'Antoni came to town,they would have gotten rid of him if he didn't improve his offense. So he had to ditch defense to improve offense. I hope they re-sign him

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

I been saying Kobe only plays D sometimes, more than half the time he's just chillin on D.

People saying LeBron's D is overrated need to really watch dude is the best perimeter defender in the league and has made huge strides since his rookie year, plus he plays the best free safety in basketball.


Defensive Rating (Points allowed per 100 possessions)

[table][tr][td]1.[/td] [td]Dwight Howard-ORL[/td] [td]94.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2.[/td] [td]Kevin Garnett-BOS[/td] [td]97.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3.[/td] [td]LeBron James-CLE[/td] [td]99.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4.[/td] [td]Anderson Varejao-CLE[/td] [td]100.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5.[/td] [td]Kendrick Perkins-BOS[/td] [td]100.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6.[/td] [td]Tim Duncan-SAS[/td] [td]100.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7.[/td] [td]Zydrunas Ilgauskas-CLE[/td] [td]100.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8.[/td] [td]Chris Andersen-DEN[/td] [td]100.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9.[/td] [td]Yao Ming-HOU[/td] [td]100.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10.[/td] [td]Rajon Rondo-BOS[/td] [td]100.9[/td] [/tr][/table]

and the only wing player in the top 10 in defensive rating

did you fail to see Rajon Rondo right there at 10?

but Lebron's D is overrated by jsut about everybody now a days... probably because his TEAM has the best overall D in the league... so of course hisindividual D is going to be inflated because of it

 

[airjaw]

Kobe's D. He gambles a lot on steals, leaving his other defenders to cover up for him when he misses the steal

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

I been saying Kobe only plays D sometimes, more than half the time he's just chillin on D.

People saying LeBron's D is overrated need to really watch dude is the best perimeter defender in the league and has made huge strides since his rookie year, plus he plays the best free safety in basketball.


Defensive Rating (Points allowed per 100 possessions)

[table][tr][td]1.[/td] [td]Dwight Howard-ORL[/td] [td]94.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2.[/td] [td]Kevin Garnett-BOS[/td] [td]97.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3.[/td] [td]LeBron James-CLE[/td] [td]99.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4.[/td] [td]Anderson Varejao-CLE[/td] [td]100.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5.[/td] [td]Kendrick Perkins-BOS[/td] [td]100.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6.[/td] [td]Tim Duncan-SAS[/td] [td]100.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7.[/td] [td]Zydrunas Ilgauskas-CLE[/td] [td]100.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8.[/td] [td]Chris Andersen-DEN[/td] [td]100.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9.[/td] [td]Yao Ming-HOU[/td] [td]100.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10.[/td] [td]Rajon Rondo-BOS[/td] [td]100.9[/td] [/tr][/table]

and the only wing player in the top 10 in defensive rating

did you fail to see Rajon Rondo right there at 10?

but Lebron's D is overrated by jsut about everybody now a days... probably because his TEAM has the best overall D in the league... so of course his individual D is going to be inflated because of it

Nope Boston has the best team defensive rating in the league.


[h3]Advanced[/h3]

[table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Player[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]PER[/th] [th=""]TS%[/th] [th=""]eFG%[/th] [th=""]ORB%[/th] [th=""]DRB%[/th] [th=""] TRB%[/th] [th=""] AST%[/th] [th=""]STL%[/th] [th=""]BLK%[/th] [th=""]TOV%[/th] [th=""]USG%[/th] [th=""]ORtg[/th] [th=""]DRtg ▴[/th] [th=""]OWS[/th] [th=""]DWS[/th] [th=""]WS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]Ben Wallace[/td] [td]34[/td] [td]56[/td] [td]1314[/td] [td]12.2[/td] [td].450[/td] [td].445[/td] [td]12.8[/td] [td]19.7[/td] [td]16.4[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]15.7[/td] [td]7.8[/td] [td]111[/td] [td]98[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]2.8[/td] [td]3.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2[/td] [td]LeBron James[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]3054[/td] [td]31.7[/td] [td].591[/td] [td].530[/td] [td]4.3[/td] [td]19.0[/td] [td]11.9[/td] [td]38.0[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]11.0[/td] [td]33.8[/td] [td]122[/td] [td]99[/td] [td]13.3[/td] [td]6.3[/td] [td]19.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3[/td] [td]Anderson Varejao[/td] [td]26[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]2306[/td] [td]14.6[/td] [td].565[/td] [td].536[/td] [td]8.9[/td] [td]20.6[/td] [td]15.0[/td] [td]5.4[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]11.5[/td] [td]14.2[/td] [td]116[/td] [td]100[/td] [td]3.2[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]7.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4[/td] [td]Zydrunas Ilgauskas[/td] [td]33[/td] [td]65[/td] [td]1765[/td] [td]18.0[/td] [td].523[/td] [td].483[/td] [td]11.0[/td] [td]21.6[/td] [td]16.5[/td] [td]6.4[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]3.8[/td] [td]10.1[/td] [td]23.8[/td] [td]108[/td] [td]101[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]3.4[/td] [td]5.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5[/td] [td]J.J. Hickson[/td] [td]20[/td] [td]62[/td] [td]705[/td] [td]12.5[/td] [td].548[/td] [td].515[/td] [td]9.1[/td] [td]18.4[/td] [td]13.9[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]3.4[/td] [td]16.8[/td] [td]18.0[/td] [td]102[/td] [td]101[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6[/td] [td]Lorenzen Wright[/td] [td]33[/td] [td]18[/td] [td]125[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [td].377[/td] [td].370[/td] [td]6.9[/td] [td]16.5[/td] [td]11.9[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]3.2[/td] [td]22.8[/td] [td]14.9[/td] [td]73[/td] [td]101[/td] [td]-0.3[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]-0.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7[/td] [td]Joe Smith[/td] [td]33[/td] [td]21[/td] [td]411[/td] [td]14.8[/td] [td].534[/td] [td].500[/td] [td]10.8[/td] [td]17.8[/td] [td]14.5[/td] [td]6.2[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]2.7[/td] [td]7.3[/td] [td]15.8[/td] [td]118[/td] [td]102[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8[/td] [td]Tarence Kinsey[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]277[/td] [td]11.0[/td] [td].595[/td] [td].500[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]11.6[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]20.4[/td] [td]18.3[/td] [td]105[/td] [td]103[/td] [td]0.1[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9[/td] [td]Delonte West[/td] [td]25[/td] [td]64[/td] [td]2152[/td] [td]14.1[/td] [td].559[/td] [td].530[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]9.2[/td] [td]5.6[/td] [td]16.6[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]12.0[/td] [td]16.7[/td] [td]114[/td] [td]104[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td]3.3[/td] [td]6.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10[/td] [td]Darnell Jackson[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]51[/td] [td]430[/td] [td]7.2[/td] [td].483[/td] [td].430[/td] [td]9.2[/td] [td]14.7[/td] [td]12.0[/td] [td]2.7[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]12.1[/td] [td]12.7[/td] [td]105[/td] [td]104[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]11[/td] [td]Jawad Williams[/td] [td]25[/td] [td]10[/td] [td]20[/td] [td]14.1[/td] [td].500[/td] [td].500[/td] [td]6.2[/td] [td]5.7[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]2.7[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]7.7[/td] [td]30.7[/td] [td]96[/td] [td]104[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]12[/td] [td]Wally Szczerbiak[/td] [td]31[/td] [td]74[/td] [td]1527[/td] [td]12.1[/td] [td].581[/td] [td].536[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]14.2[/td] [td]9.0[/td] [td]8.3[/td] [td]1.0[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]11.0[/td] [td]15.4[/td] [td]116[/td] [td]105[/td] [td]2.2[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]4.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]13[/td] [td]Sasha Pavlovic[/td] [td]25[/td] [td]66[/td] [td]1053[/td] [td]8.6[/td] [td].510[/td] [td].509[/td] [td]3.6[/td] [td]10.4[/td] [td]7.2[/td] [td]10.5[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]1.2[/td] [td]13.8[/td] [td]15.5[/td] [td]102[/td] [td]105[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]14[/td] [td]Mo Williams[/td] [td]26[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]2834[/td] [td]17.2[/td] [td].588[/td] [td].548[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]9.4[/td] [td]5.9[/td] [td]20.1[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]12.7[/td] [td]23.4[/td] [td]115[/td] [td]106[/td] [td]5.9[/td] [td]3.6[/td] [td]9.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]15[/td] [td]Daniel Gibson[/td] [td]22[/td] [td]75[/td] [td]1795[/td] [td]10.1[/td] [td].519[/td] [td].493[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]7.9[/td] [td]5.1[/td] [td]11.3[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]9.7[/td] [td]16.5[/td] [td]108[/td] [td]106[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]3.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]16[/td] [td]Trey Johnson[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]14[/td] [td]-9.3[/td] [td].296[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [td]4.3[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]12.9[/td] [td]26.2[/td] [td]62[/td] [td]109[/td] [td]-0.1[/td] [td]0.0[/td] [td]-0.1[/td] [/tr][/table]
So other Than Ben Wallace who is a better defender on his own team?

 

[got shoes]

i never thought Kidd was a good defender.

 

[CP1708]

Osh, w t f with those numbers maaaaaaan?

You know damn well all them numbers don't mean sh*^.

I get a few numbers here and there, and tendancies and all that, but all those made up numbers don't mean squat, stop it.

 

[downtown43]

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:

So other Than Ben Wallace who is a better defender on his own team?

Osh Kosh Bosh, i could already tell that you don't watch the NBA (outside of the Raptors) and just look at boxscores to form your opinions.but your posts lately have just confirmed it.

Delonte West is the best perimeter defender on the Cavs. watch Cleveland play. West will guard the opposing teams best perimeter player for 38-40 minutes, andLebron will take over for maybe 2 minutes, or on a crucial possession or two.


furthermore, you have just about ZERO credibility left after saying Lebron is the best perimeter defender in the league. you can't honestly believe that,can you?

i never thought Kidd was a good defender.

i have to ask your age. i can understand you thinking that by watching him play now. he looks slow and lazy on defense these days, and is clearly in thetwilight of his career. but in his prime, he was incredible defensively.

 

[acbboyz84]

Originally Posted by MJsaver

KOBE fan but his D is highly overated..

On ball hes suspect, help D hes alright.

ayo

jk

 

[bigtimejerky]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

I been saying Kobe only plays D sometimes, more than half the time he's just chillin on D.

People saying LeBron's D is overrated need to really watch dude is the best perimeter defender in the league and has made huge strides since his rookie year, plus he plays the best free safety in basketball.


Defensive Rating (Points allowed per 100 possessions)

[table][tr][td]1.[/td] [td]Dwight Howard-ORL[/td] [td]94.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2.[/td] [td]Kevin Garnett-BOS[/td] [td]97.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3.[/td] [td]LeBron James-CLE[/td] [td]99.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4.[/td] [td]Anderson Varejao-CLE[/td] [td]100.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5.[/td] [td]Kendrick Perkins-BOS[/td] [td]100.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6.[/td] [td]Tim Duncan-SAS[/td] [td]100.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7.[/td] [td]Zydrunas Ilgauskas-CLE[/td] [td]100.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8.[/td] [td]Chris Andersen-DEN[/td] [td]100.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9.[/td] [td]Yao Ming-HOU[/td] [td]100.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10.[/td] [td]Rajon Rondo-BOS[/td] [td]100.9[/td] [/tr][/table]

and the only wing player in the top 10 in defensive rating

did you fail to see Rajon Rondo right there at 10?

but Lebron's D is overrated by jsut about everybody now a days... probably because his TEAM has the best overall D in the league... so of course his individual D is going to be inflated because of it

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[/td] [/tr][/table]So other Than Ben Wallace who is a better defender on his own team?

Osh Kosh Bosh, i could already tell that you don't watch the NBA (outside of the Raptors) and just look at boxscores to form your opinions. but your posts lately have just confirmed it.

Delonte West is the best perimeter defender on the Cavs. watch Cleveland play. West will guard the opposing teams best perimeter player for 38-40 minutes, and Lebron will take over for maybe 2 minutes, or on a crucial possession or two.


furthermore, you have just about ZERO credibility left after saying Lebron is the best perimeter defender in the league. you can't honestly believe that, can you?

They actually play their position and it just so happens that half of the time the opposing SG is the biggest offensive threat of most teams.Plus, why would you have Bron guard the most aggressive offensive threat for the game? Would you put your best player in foul trouble?

I agree his D is overly hyped... but hes still the best perimeter defender for the best defensive team in the L.

 

[lb510]

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

Not now, but Chauncey Billup's "big shot ability" was getting on my nerves the last 2-3 years in Detroit

.

LaMarcus Aldridge's athleticism.

 

[goldmember]

Kobe's Defense

Thats why the whole team get lazy most of the time, dude should set an example for his teammates the right way..

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:

So other Than Ben Wallace who is a better defender on his own team?

Osh Kosh Bosh, i could already tell that you don't watch the NBA (outside of the Raptors) and just look at boxscores to form your opinions. but your posts lately have just confirmed it.

Delonte West is the best perimeter defender on the Cavs. watch Cleveland play. West will guard the opposing teams best perimeter player for 38-40 minutes, and Lebron will take over for maybe 2 minutes, or on a crucial possession or two.


furthermore, you have just about ZERO credibility left after saying Lebron is the best perimeter defender in the league. you can't honestly believe that, can you?

i never thought Kidd was a good defender.
i have to ask your age. i can understand you thinking that by watching him play now. he looks slow and lazy on defense these days, and is clearly in the twilight of his career. but in his prime, he was incredible defensively.


What a terrible, terrible post. Full of snide douchbaggery and just drenched with self importance and and incredible (and false) sense ofsuperiority.

The FUNDAMENTAL difference between me and most other sports fan is that I am simply not arrogant enough to believe that everything I see and think is 100%accurate. I question everything without ego and try and remain as objective as possible. Statistics are the most objective way we have to measure things andthere is no way I am going to ignore this wealth of information at our finger tips.

The idea that I am without the ability to critically about the stats that I do read is absolutely foolish and incredibly presumptuous. I just do not feelcomfortable making statements about thing with out having some sort of objective measuring stick.

There are plenty of times where my opinion contradict statistics, such as Andrea Bargnani vs Lamarcus Aldridge, or Steve Nash's rank as a great NBA playeror even Allen Iverson's "overratedness".

Now about the Lebron thing, let me get one thing state I very much dislike Lebron James and saying anything good about him pains me too my heart. Also I am notgoing to sit here and try and convince you how much basketball I watch, because unlike most NBA fans I realize that unless you are a fan of that team even Ifyou have the NBA league pass like I do, you cannot try and pretend like you have seen that many Cavs games.

There is not enough time in the day.

Now am I crazy for thinking that the player who gives up the smallest amount of points on the 3rd best defensive team in the league is a great defender? Oh*%!# well damn color me bat *%!# insane!!.

Oh damn how crazy am I,watching him just throttle any defensive assignment make me think he is a good defender well I guess it's schizophrenia!!

Also A feat usually reserved for centers, him playing the passing lanes andproviding ridiculous help defense and blocking shots into the the stratosphere from the small forward position...*%!# well I should lay off of the %%#$#%!mushrooms.

You can disagree, whatever, but stop this I lost credibility none sense...

 

[CP1708]

^
What if Bron gives up the fewest points on a top defense but plays less talented scorers? (not saying he does, I'm talkin hypothetical within given statsis my point)

I get what you say about stats are subjective, but they aren't always right. And those stats, are they not interpretive?

If you have a shot with "hand in your face", well, there's hand lazily in your face from Steve Nash, and then there's hand literally in yourface from Shane Battier. So don't those stats get skewed when whoever is charting them writes that down?

So if a guy hits a bucket with 2 or 3 guys around him, who takes the hit on defense, which of the 3 guys? All subjective is it not?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

^
What if Bron gives up the fewest points on a top defense but plays less talented scorers? (not saying he does, I'm talkin hypothetical within given stats is my point)

I get what you say about stats are subjective, but they aren't always right. And those stats, are they not interpretive?

If you have a shot with "hand in your face", well, there's hand lazily in your face from Steve Nash, and then there's hand literally in your face from Shane Battier. So don't those stats get skewed when whoever is charting them writes that down?

So if a guy hits a bucket with 2 or 3 guys around him, who takes the hit on defense, which of the 3 guys? All subjective is it not?

And I totally agree with you on all of that Shane Battier is a perfect example of this.

You have to combine the two, I've watched enough of Lebron and combine that with what the numbers have told me lead me to this conclusion.

 

[CP1708]

Yeah, see I can live with that then.

It's kinda like the Ariza thing. We talked before about how he was technically the best perimeter defender the lakers had, but he can not guard guys likeArtest, or Peirce, or Bron, because they are just too strong for him. So he may have better D stats, make a lotta plays and all that, but when it comes downto it, either Kobe or even Odom has to defend those guys.

On the flip, Ariza does really nice work against a Tony Parker, or an AI type. To me, that's where the stats don't show how to work a matchup or afeel of the game.

But I can see where the stats may kinda "guide" you to look at certain things.

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:

So other Than Ben Wallace who is a better defender on his own team?

Osh Kosh Bosh, i could already tell that you don't watch the NBA (outside of the Raptors) and just look at boxscores to form your opinions. but your posts lately have just confirmed it.

Delonte West is the best perimeter defender on the Cavs. watch Cleveland play. West will guard the opposing teams best perimeter player for 38-40 minutes, and Lebron will take over for maybe 2 minutes, or on a crucial possession or two.


furthermore, you have just about ZERO credibility left after saying Lebron is the best perimeter defender in the league. you can't honestly believe that, can you?

i never thought Kidd was a good defender.

i have to ask your age. i can understand you thinking that by watching him play now. he looks slow and lazy on defense these days, and is clearly in the twilight of his career. but in his prime, he was incredible defensively.


What a terrible, terrible post. Full of snide douchbaggery and just drenched with self importance and and incredible (and false) sense of superiority.

The FUNDAMENTAL difference between me and most other sports fan is that I am simply not arrogant enough to believe that everything I see and think is 100% accurate. I question everything without ego and try and remain as objective as possible. Statistics are the most objective way we have to measure things and there is no way I am going to ignore this wealth of information at our finger tips.

The idea that I am without the ability to critically about the stats that I do read is absolutely foolish and incredibly presumptuous. I just do not feel comfortable making statements about thing with out having some sort of objective measuring stick.

There are plenty of times where my opinion contradict statistics, such as Andrea Bargnani vs Lamarcus Aldridge, or Steve Nash's rank as a great NBA player or even Allen Iverson's "overratedness".

Now about the Lebron thing, let me get one thing state I very much dislike Lebron James and saying anything good about him pains me too my heart. Also I am not going to sit here and try and convince you how much basketball I watch, because unlike most NBA fans I realize that unless you are a fan of that team even If you have the NBA league pass like I do, you cannot try and pretend like you have seen that many Cavs games.

There is not enough time in the day.

Now am I crazy for thinking that the player who gives up the smallest amount of points on the 3rd best defensive team in the league is a great defender? Oh *%!# well damn color me bat *%!# insane!!.

Oh damn how crazy am I, watching him just throttle any defensive assignment make me think he is a good defender well I guess it's schizophrenia!!

Also A feat usually reserved for centers, him playing the passing lanes and providing ridiculous help defense and blocking shots into the the stratosphere from the small forward position...*%!# well I should lay off of the %%#$#%! mushrooms.

You can disagree, whatever, but stop this I lost credibility none sense...

i'm sorry if i came at you the wrong way.. it's just that you stay coming on here with these random stats, and you make blanketconclusions from them as if you don't even watch the games. i'm not saying you don't watch the games because i can't claim to know, butthat's how you come across. i'm not completely bashing all the stuff you post, BTW.. the Yao vs Dwight stats you posted are significant and i was justabout to bring up Dwight's mythical "dominant" post game in this very thread...

but regardless... using those defensive statistics (which, no matter how individualized one tries to make them, will always be heavily skewed towards teamdefense - the Cavs have a great defensive scheme), to say Lebron is the best perimeter defender in the league is a little off, and kind of sounds like someonegot caught up in the hype train.


the stats indicate that Lebron is the best defender on the 3rd best defensive team... all we can draw from those stats is that he was a great defender thisseason. any other superlatives, like "best perimeter defender in the league", were clearly added on by you and have to actually be supported byon-court evidence. if you watched the NBA this season and came to the conclusion that Lebron is a better perimeter defender than Shane Battier, i don'tknow what to tell you.

up until this season, Lebron was never even considered a defensive player. it's funny how we went from "wow, he is actually playing defense thisyear" at the beginning of the season, to "best perimeter defender in the league" by the end of the season.. and those statements just sohappened to coincide with the steady increase of Lebron's hype as the season went on.

Lebron puts up great defensive stats... steals, blocks, defensive rebounds... but all that means is that he can run fast and jump high. while great on helpdefense, he is not an elite lockdown defender in this league yet.

 

[prettyplaya]

Kobe's defense, 3pt shot

 

[jonfarr]

Originally Posted by nublee

Originally Posted by Chester McFloppy

Andrea Bargnani's athleticism.

Dude got it right Chester, never seen you owned quite like that before.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:

So other Than Ben Wallace who is a better defender on his own team?

Osh Kosh Bosh, i could already tell that you don't watch the NBA (outside of the Raptors) and just look at boxscores to form your opinions. but your posts lately have just confirmed it.

Delonte West is the best perimeter defender on the Cavs. watch Cleveland play. West will guard the opposing teams best perimeter player for 38-40 minutes, and Lebron will take over for maybe 2 minutes, or on a crucial possession or two.


furthermore, you have just about ZERO credibility left after saying Lebron is the best perimeter defender in the league. you can't honestly believe that, can you?

i never thought Kidd was a good defender.

i have to ask your age. i can understand you thinking that by watching him play now. he looks slow and lazy on defense these days, and is clearly in the twilight of his career. but in his prime, he was incredible defensively.

What a terrible, terrible post. Full of snide douchbaggery and just drenched with self importance and and incredible (and false) sense of superiority.

The FUNDAMENTAL difference between me and most other sports fan is that I am simply not arrogant enough to believe that everything I see and think is 100% accurate. I question everything without ego and try and remain as objective as possible. Statistics are the most objective way we have to measure things and there is no way I am going to ignore this wealth of information at our finger tips.

The idea that I am without the ability to critically about the stats that I do read is absolutely foolish and incredibly presumptuous. I just do not feel comfortable making statements about thing with out having some sort of objective measuring stick.

There are plenty of times where my opinion contradict statistics, such as Andrea Bargnani vs Lamarcus Aldridge, or Steve Nash's rank as a great NBA player or even Allen Iverson's "overratedness".

Now about the Lebron thing, let me get one thing state I very much dislike Lebron James and saying anything good about him pains me too my heart. Also I am not going to sit here and try and convince you how much basketball I watch, because unlike most NBA fans I realize that unless you are a fan of that team even If you have the NBA league pass like I do, you cannot try and pretend like you have seen that many Cavs games.

There is not enough time in the day.

Now am I crazy for thinking that the player who gives up the smallest amount of points on the 3rd best defensive team in the league is a great defender? Oh *%!# well damn color me bat *%!# insane!!.

Oh damn how crazy am I, watching him just throttle any defensive assignment make me think he is a good defender well I guess it's schizophrenia!!

Also A feat usually reserved for centers, him playing the passing lanes and providing ridiculous help defense and blocking shots into the the stratosphere from the small forward position...*%!# well I should lay off of the %%#$#%! mushrooms.

You can disagree, whatever, but stop this I lost credibility none sense...

i'm sorry if i came at you the wrong way.. it's just that you stay coming on here with these random stats, and you make blanket conclusions from them as if you don't even watch the games. i'm not saying you don't watch the games because i can't claim to know, but that's how you come across. i'm not completely bashing all the stuff you post, BTW.. the Yao vs Dwight stats you posted are significant and i was just about to bring up Dwight's mythical "dominant" post game in this very thread...

but regardless... using those defensive statistics (which, no matter how individualized one tries to make them, will always be heavily skewed towards team defense - the Cavs have a great defensive scheme), to say Lebron is the best perimeter defender in the league is a little off, and kind of sounds like someone got caught up in the hype train.


the stats indicate that Lebron is the best defender on the 3rd best defensive team... all we can draw from those stats is that he was a great defender this season. any other superlatives, like "best perimeter defender in the league", were clearly added on by you and have to actually be supported by on-court evidence. if you watched the NBA this season and came to the conclusion that Lebron is a better perimeter defender than Shane Battier, i don't know what to tell you.

up until this season, Lebron was never even considered a defensive player. it's funny how we went from "wow, he is actually playing defense this year" at the beginning of the season, to "best perimeter defender in the league" by the end of the season.. and those statements just so happened to coincide with the steady increase of Lebron's hype as the season went on.

Lebron puts up great defensive stats... steals, blocks, defensive rebounds... but all that means is that he can run fast and jump high. while great on help defense, he is not an elite lockdown defender in this league yet.


I have long been in the camp up until this year that lebron was an inconsistent defender but when I watch this dude really try to shut someonedown, he unlike batteir has the athletic ability like Artest used to in his prime to just smother people. Shane is great becuase he just out smarts people andis smart enough to not try to get up in someones grill when he ckknows he can't stay with them (Ron Artest)

The main reason that I put Lebron above shane is that most permiter players can't make there hole team defense better tha way a dominateing center can.Shane can smother Kobe all day but he is not going to effect every other player the Yao can or Dwight can. Lebron with is tenacity in the passing lanes and hisincreibde lane intimidation is the only perimiter player who can really do this. It's like the difference between Nnamdi Asomugha and Asante Samuel. Youcan cover dude all day but Asante can help his entire team more than Nnamdi does.

Is Shane a smarter defender sure, but Lebron is far more dominating.

 

[bigmike23]

Osh Kosh Bosh, i could already tell that you don't watch the NBA (outside of the Raptors) and just look at boxscores to form your opinions. but your posts lately have just confirmed it.

 

[arrjae]

Originally Posted by VIIheaven

David Lee forgot how to play defense. I don't blame him, pre-D'Antoni he was learning, getting better every game. But when D'Antoni came to town, they would have gotten rid of him if he didn't improve his offense. So he had to ditch defense to improve offense. I hope they re-sign him

^ive noticed tht also....
and i hope they donnie decides to resign him....

and i agree w/ the others that posted something....

 

[ghengesk]

Originally Posted by Put em up

Rashad Lewis...dude is very overrated and highly paid.

False.

He's very good but not utilized correctly. It's like having an SUV and living in the suburbs.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Osh Kosh Bosh, i could already tell that you don't watch the NBA (outside of the Raptors) and just look at boxscores to form your opinions. but your posts lately have just confirmed it.

Let's assume this is true, I don't even watch sports I just skim box scores for entertainment.

We are supposed to believe that every NTer watches every single team for a significant amount of every team so they can formulate an opinion. So every NTerjust spends time skimming NBA league making scouting reports in there heads?

Y'all expect me to believe that??!! I watch as much as any basketball fan watches, All of my teams games, nationally televised games, and some league pass.