Steve Nash. The Benjamin Button of the NBA.

gko2408

gko2408

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There's been no substantial dip in any of his numbers and he's 36 freakin years old! 
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Leading the league assists once again, shooting ungodly percentages for a point guard, and being the de facto leader of a rejuvenated Suns team.

I think he's overtaken Kidd for PG of our era.

What I would give to see him playing with Nowtizki again...



Steve Nash's Career Stats
[table][tr][th=""]Year [/th][th=""]Team [/th][th=""]GP [/th][th=""]GS [/th][th=""]MPG [/th][th=""]FG% [/th][th=""]3P% [/th][th=""]FT% [/th][th=""]RPG [/th][th=""]APG [/th][th=""]SPG [/th][th=""]BPG [/th][th=""]PPG [/th][/tr][tr][td]1996–97[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]65[/td][td]2[/td][td]10.5[/td][td].423[/td][td].418[/td][td].824[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]2.1[/td][td].3[/td][td].0[/td][td]3.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]1997–98[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]76[/td][td]9[/td][td]21.9[/td][td].459[/td][td].415[/td][td].860[/td][td]2.1[/td][td]3.4[/td][td].8[/td][td].1[/td][td]9.1[/td][/tr][tr][td]1998–99[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]40[/td][td]40[/td][td]31.7[/td][td].363[/td][td].374[/td][td].826[/td][td]2.9[/td][td]5.5[/td][td].9[/td][td].1[/td][td]7.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]1999–00[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]56[/td][td]27[/td][td]27.4[/td][td].477[/td][td].403[/td][td].882[/td][td]2.2[/td][td]4.9[/td][td].7[/td][td].1[/td][td]8.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]2000–01[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]70[/td][td]70[/td][td]34.1[/td][td].487[/td][td].406[/td][td].895[/td][td]3.2[/td][td]7.3[/td][td]1.0[/td][td].1[/td][td]15.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]2001–02[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]82[/td][td]82[/td][td]34.6[/td][td].483[/td][td].455[/td][td].887[/td][td]3.1[/td][td]7.7[/td][td].6[/td][td].1[/td][td]17.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]2002–03[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]82[/td][td]82[/td][td]33.1[/td][td].465[/td][td].413[/td][td].909[/td][td]2.9[/td][td]7.3[/td][td]1.0[/td][td].1[/td][td]17.7[/td][/tr][tr][td]2003–04[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]78[/td][td]78[/td][td]33.5[/td][td].470[/td][td].405[/td][td].916[/td][td]3.0[/td][td]8.8[/td][td].9[/td][td].1[/td][td]14.5[/td][/tr][tr][td]2004–05[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]75[/td][td]75[/td][td]34.3[/td][td].502[/td][td].431[/td][td].887[/td][td]3.3[/td][td]11.5[/td][td]1.0[/td][td].1[/td][td]15.5[/td][/tr][tr][td]2005–06[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]79[/td][td]79[/td][td]35.4[/td][td].512[/td][td].439[/td][td].921[/td][td]4.2[/td][td]10.5[/td][td].8[/td][td].2[/td][td]18.8[/td][/tr][tr][td]2006–07[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]76[/td][td]76[/td][td]35.3[/td][td].532[/td][td].455[/td][td].899[/td][td]3.5[/td][td]11.6[/td][td].8[/td][td].1[/td][td]18.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]2007–08[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]81[/td][td]81[/td][td]34.3[/td][td].504[/td][td].470[/td][td].906[/td][td]3.5[/td][td]11.1[/td][td].6[/td][td].1[/td][td]16.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]2008–09[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]74[/td][td]74[/td][td]33.6[/td][td].503[/td][td].439[/td][td].933[/td][td]3.0[/td][td]9.7[/td][td].7[/td][td].1[/td][td]15.7[/td][/tr][tr][td]2009–10[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]78[/td][td]78[/td][td]32.9[/td][td].506[/td][td].422[/td][td].935[/td][td]3.4[/td][td]11.0[/td][td].5[/td][td].1[/td][td]16.5[/td][/tr][/table]Jason Kidd's Career Stats

[table][tr][th=""]Year [/th][th=""]Team [/th][th=""]GP [/th][th=""]GS [/th][th=""]MPG [/th][th=""]FG% [/th][th=""]3P% [/th][th=""]FT% [/th][th=""]RPG [/th][th=""]APG [/th][th=""]SPG [/th][th=""]BPG [/th][th=""]PPG [/th][/tr][tr][td]1994–95[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]79[/td][td]79[/td][td]33.8[/td][td].385[/td][td].272[/td][td].698[/td][td]5.4[/td][td]7.7[/td][td]1.9[/td][td].3[/td][td]11.7[/td][/tr][tr][td]1995–96[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]81[/td][td]81[/td][td]37.5[/td][td].381[/td][td].336[/td][td].692[/td][td]6.8[/td][td]9.7[/td][td]2.2[/td][td].3[/td][td]16.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]1996–97[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]22[/td][td]22[/td][td]36.0[/td][td].369[/td][td].323[/td][td].667[/td][td]4.1[/td][td]9.1[/td][td]2.0[/td][td].4[/td][td]9.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]1996–97[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]33[/td][td]23[/td][td]35.5[/td][td].423[/td][td].400[/td][td].688[/td][td]4.8[/td][td]9.0[/td][td]2.4[/td][td].4[/td][td]11.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]1997–98[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]82[/td][td]82[/td][td]38.0[/td][td].416[/td][td].313[/td][td].799[/td][td]6.2[/td][td]9.1[/td][td]2.0[/td][td].3[/td][td]11.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]1998–99[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]50[/td][td]50[/td][td]41.2[/td][td].444[/td][td].366[/td][td].757[/td][td]6.8[/td][td]10.8[/td][td]2.3[/td][td].4[/td][td]16.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]1999–00[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]67[/td][td]67[/td][td]39.0[/td][td].409[/td][td].337[/td][td].829[/td][td]7.2[/td][td]10.1[/td][td]2.0[/td][td].4[/td][td]14.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]2000–01[/td][td]Phoenix[/td][td]77[/td][td]76[/td][td]39.8[/td][td].411[/td][td].297[/td][td].814[/td][td]6.4[/td][td]9.8[/td][td]2.2[/td][td].3[/td][td]16.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]2001–02[/td][td]New Jersey[/td][td]82[/td][td]82[/td][td]37.3[/td][td].391[/td][td].321[/td][td].814[/td][td]7.3[/td][td]9.9[/td][td]2.1[/td][td].2[/td][td]14.7[/td][/tr][tr][td]2002–03[/td][td]New Jersey[/td][td]80[/td][td]80[/td][td]37.4[/td][td].414[/td][td].341[/td][td].841[/td][td]6.3[/td][td]8.9[/td][td]2.2[/td][td].3[/td][td]18.7[/td][/tr][tr][td]2003–04[/td][td]New Jersey[/td][td]67[/td][td]66[/td][td]36.6[/td][td].384[/td][td].321[/td][td].827[/td][td]6.4[/td][td]9.2[/td][td]1.8[/td][td].2[/td][td]15.5[/td][/tr][tr][td]2004–05[/td][td]New Jersey[/td][td]66[/td][td]65[/td][td]36.9[/td][td].398[/td][td].360[/td][td].740[/td][td]7.4[/td][td]8.3[/td][td]1.9[/td][td].1[/td][td]14.4[/td][/tr][tr][td]2005–06[/td][td]New Jersey[/td][td]80[/td][td]80[/td][td]37.2[/td][td].404[/td][td].352[/td][td].795[/td][td]7.3[/td][td]8.4[/td][td]1.9[/td][td].4[/td][td]13.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]2006–07[/td][td]New Jersey[/td][td]80[/td][td]80[/td][td]36.7[/td][td].406[/td][td].343[/td][td].778[/td][td]8.2[/td][td]9.2[/td][td]1.6[/td][td].3[/td][td]13.0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2007–08[/td][td]New Jersey[/td][td]51[/td][td]51[/td][td]37.2[/td][td].366[/td][td].356[/td][td].820[/td][td]8.1[/td][td]10.4[/td][td]1.5[/td][td].3[/td][td]11.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]2007–08[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]29[/td][td]29[/td][td]34.9[/td][td].426[/td][td].461[/td][td].815[/td][td]6.5[/td][td]9.5[/td][td]2.1[/td][td].4[/td][td]9.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]2008–09[/td][td]Dallas[/td][td]81[/td][td]81[/td][td]35.6[/td][td].416[/td][td].406[/td][td].819[/td][td]6.2[/td][td]8.7[/td][td]2.0[/td][td].5[/td][td]9.0[/td][/tr][/table]
 
Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Let me know when he learns how to rebound and play defense like Jason Kidd.
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Also talk to me when he actually get to a NBA Finals too.

His numbers are great but the Suns offensive system is totally geared to his strengths.
 
Originally Posted by SoHi 23

lmk when he can take to a team to the finals like JKidd did
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While I still take Kidd over Nash, that argument is ******ed.  Those suns squads were farrrrrrr better than any of those Nets squads, and the only reason the Nets made it to the finals is because the East as that time was as weak as any conference has been in about the past 30 years.  Nash could have easily gotten to the finals if it weren't for a couple of bad breaks (The suspensions in the spurs series, Joe Cool breaking his orbital, Amare with the Microfracture).

Greatest shooting PG of all-time
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Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Let me know when he learns how to rebound and play defense like Jason Kidd.
Click to expand...


Also talk to me when he actually get to a NBA Finals too.
Click to expand...


*goes back to listening to Beyonce Dangerously In Love while thinking "Why doesnt she make songs like this anymore
tired.gif
" *
 
Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Let me know when he learns how to rebound and play defense like Jason Kidd.
Click to expand...


Also talk to me when he actually get to a NBA Finals too.

His numbers are great but the Suns offensive system is totally geared to his strengths.
Click to expand...
Weak argument.  What team doesn't build around their best player?  It counts against him that the team runs a system that takes advantage of the strength of their best player?  
As for his defense, I would consider it a fair argument, except none of the elite guards are great defenders either.  Kidd has been irrelevant defensively for a while now (despite what the SPG says) to the point where it's a detriment against teams with fast guards.  Paul takes Iverson-like risks so he's never been a good defender.   Rondo's the only elite-level PG that comes to mind with great defense.  RPG shouldn't factor into the argument about point guards.  It's not a stat that's especially important for point guards and being a great rebounder doesn't necessarily make one a great PG.  But in the areas that do matter for a point guard (other than defense), Nash has been at an elite level since he's been with the Suns.
 
Originally Posted by gko2408

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Let me know when he learns how to rebound and play defense like Jason Kidd.
Click to expand...


Also talk to me when he actually get to a NBA Finals too.

His numbers are great but the Suns offensive system is totally geared to his strengths.
Click to expand...
Weak argument.  What team doesn't build around their best player?  It counts against him that the team runs a system that takes advantage of the strength of their best player?  
As for his defense, I would consider it a fair argument, except none of the elite guards are great defenders either.  Kidd has been irrelevant defensively for a while now (despite what the SPG says) to the point where it's a detriment against teams with fast guards.  Paul takes Iverson-like risks so he's never been a good defender.   Rondo's the only elite-level PG that comes to mind with great defense.  RPG shouldn't factor into the argument about point guards.  It's not a stat that's especially important for point guards and being a great rebounder doesn't necessarily make one a great PG.  But in the areas that do matter for a point guard (other than defense), Nash has been at an elite level since he's been with the Suns.
Click to expand...
RPG make Kidd the better all around player. And of course Kidd can't up with faster guards, he's 3 years past his prime.
 
Originally Posted by Anthony Stark

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Let me know when he learns how to rebound and play defense like Jason Kidd.
Click to expand...

Let me know when Kidd's shooting %'s aren't atrocious.
Click to expand...
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steve nash is a beast though, this year is their best chance at making the finals.
 
Nash not ever making the finals is NOT his fault. I wish folks would stop throwing baseless statements out there as if it is ONE player's fault for his TEAM no succeeding. Not even a valid argument.
 
Nash is good but if I'm taking one of these guys in their prime to build a team, gimme Jason Kidd. Nash is the better shooter and scorer but I think Kidd brings more to the table overall that would be better in building a team from scratch. Like I've always said in these Nash vs. Kidd arguments...Nash has played with Dirk and Michael Finley then Amare and prime Marion (all players who were 20+ ppg caliber and Dirk and Amare could get you 30 pts). The best player Kidd may have had was Marion before he reached his prime and then Kenyon Martin.

I think Kidd can do more with less than Nash. Put prime Kidd on the worst Clippers team ever and compare them vs. putting prime Nash on the worst Clippers team ever. For 82 games, I think Kidd's team would do better because of his overall abilities.
 
i coulda sworn andre miller scored 52 on the mavericks, who was guarding him? had to be jason kidd.
 
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Nash not ever making the finals is NOT his fault. I wish folks would stop throwing baseless statements out there as if it is ONE player's fault for his TEAM no succeeding. Not even a valid argument.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but Jason Kidd took the Nets to the finals during a time when the Eastern Conference was absolutely terrible while the West was loaded. 50 wins won you the Eastern Conference back then...that Nets team might not have even made the playoffs had they been in the West.

Nash has played in an ultra competitive Western Conference his entire career. Not making the finals is definitely partly his fault but you cant just blame him.

Objectively speaking (too many NTers who claim to be basketball experts lack neutrality), Nash has been a MUCH better shooter than Kidd and amazing from the charity stripe. However, Kidd has been the better rebounder, defender and has probably had an overall better career.

One thing that is Nash's favor though is that he's rarely missed the playoffs as a starter and has led some really good teams. Kidd has had a mixed career in this regard...some seasons he's been on good teams, other seasons he's been on absolutely dreadful teams...I guess we cant blame Kidd entirely for this since it is a team game but I think its interesting to compare the team accomplishments of both players.
 
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Nash not ever making the finals is NOT his fault. I wish folks would stop throwing baseless statements out there as if it is ONE player's fault for his TEAM no succeeding. Not even a valid argument.
Click to expand...


Although i agree with you, but that's part of being THE player on the team. The other way around, If they DID went to the finals then we would all say HE led the team to the finals.

Also, the rebounding argument is null as far as i'm concern. It's true thats what makes Jkidd so great is his overall game to be able to rebound, BUT was John Stockton ever a good rebounder? Guess not, but he's still one of the best PGs that ever played the game. 
 
Originally Posted by Anthony Stark

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Let me know when he learns how to rebound and play defense like Jason Kidd.
Click to expand...

Let me know when Kidd's shooting %'s aren't atrocious.
Click to expand...
Shooting percentages don't mean anything when you're a point guard.

i coulda sworn andre miller scored 52 on the mavericks, who was guarding him? had to be jason kidd.
That's a hell of a feat against an old man like Kidd.

In their primes I'm taking:

Payton
Kidd
Stockton

before Nash and I'd take Derron Williams and Chris Paul before him as well. Y'all overrate Nash.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted by Billy Hoyle

i coulda sworn andre miller scored 52 on the mavericks, who was guarding him? had to be jason kidd.
Click to expand...

andre woulda dropped 82 on nash if nash was guarding him that night
 
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