Thanks for helping NikeTalk contribute $2,150 to Doctors Without Borders!

6,812
1,544
Joined May 9, 2004
Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

Originally Posted by Hankzilla

Originally Posted by CaBron James 23

how bout we contribute something to this failure known as Yuku
because that's more important than helping ppl

than helping people we will never meet, it is.
...


On the subject though isn't the amount of funds raised linked to the number of hits the site gets??

If so the site being f'd up is effecting more than just people who post on the board.
 
6,812
1,544
Joined May 9, 2004
Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

Originally Posted by Hankzilla

Originally Posted by CaBron James 23

how bout we contribute something to this failure known as Yuku
because that's more important than helping ppl

than helping people we will never meet, it is.
...


On the subject though isn't the amount of funds raised linked to the number of hits the site gets??

If so the site being f'd up is effecting more than just people who post on the board.
 

kdawg

Staff member
7,040
3,621
Joined Jun 25, 2003
That's another really deserving cause - it's a great organization and I'm sure the money will be well spent.

I'm also loving how that was Meth's 10,000th post.

Better than posting some thong pics or something.
 

kdawg

Staff member
7,040
3,621
Joined Jun 25, 2003
That's another really deserving cause - it's a great organization and I'm sure the money will be well spent.

I'm also loving how that was Meth's 10,000th post.

Better than posting some thong pics or something.
 
1,053
25
Joined Jan 16, 2009
Damn... People really prefer having a new server than helping people in the need? Wow... talk about a**holes
 
1,053
25
Joined Jan 16, 2009
Damn... People really prefer having a new server than helping people in the need? Wow... talk about a**holes
 
4,214
11
Joined Nov 18, 2007
Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Yea, it's over for all this ''Thanks For Helping To Build a Toilet For Amputees In Papau New Guinea''...

...fix this website.
 
4,214
11
Joined Nov 18, 2007
Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Yea, it's over for all this ''Thanks For Helping To Build a Toilet For Amputees In Papau New Guinea''...

...fix this website.
 
3,646
10
Joined May 3, 2010
Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

Originally Posted by Hankzilla

Originally Posted by CaBron James 23

how bout we contribute something to this failure known as Yuku
because that's more important than helping ppl

than helping people we will never meet, it is.
What does that have to do with it? Have you ever gave money to a homeless person? Do you intend on every seeing them again?
 
3,646
10
Joined May 3, 2010
Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

Originally Posted by Hankzilla

Originally Posted by CaBron James 23

how bout we contribute something to this failure known as Yuku
because that's more important than helping ppl

than helping people we will never meet, it is.
What does that have to do with it? Have you ever gave money to a homeless person? Do you intend on every seeing them again?
 

Methodical Management

Staff member
Co-Founder
6,056
17,735
Joined Dec 8, 1999
Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

Originally Posted by Hankzilla

Originally Posted by CaBron James 23

how bout we contribute something to this failure known as Yuku
because that's more important than helping ppl

than helping people we will never meet, it is.
Let's see: you think it's a waste to sacrifice time and money in attempt to improve the lives of people you'll never meet without receiving so much as a word of thanks in return, is that right?  Hm, sounds like you're asking me to stop caring about you guys and just shut down NikeTalk. 

I suppose I should just be spending money on friends and family, since I hadn't planned on meeting any of you.


Although many of the responses to this topic should inspire frustration, I actually think they're a wonderful proof of concept for us.  At its best, NikeTalk is about connecting with and enjoying the diverse company of like-minded people from around the world.  At its worst, though, NikeTalk can still harness this shallow, spoiled, materialistic, market-driven consumer feeding-frenzy that sneaker fandom has become and convert it into something positive - like a meaningful donation to a worthy cause. 

All those ugly comments that could make one ashamed to be associated with the site are still, in a sense, contributions to our charities, support from people who would never attend a benefit event, volunteer, or give directly to an organization like Doctors Without Borders. 

On the subject though isn't the amount of funds raised linked to the number of hits the site gets??

If so the site being f'd up is effecting more than just people who post on the board.
Do you really think that relationship eluded us? 

It's not as simple as you seem to think it is.  You don't just slap up a vbulletin on an "unlimited" webhost and call it a day.  First of all, without the right hosting configuration you're gonna encounter far worse problems than server lag.  You take for granted that security concerns and routine technical issues won't be a problem because Yuku actually does handle a lot of that stuff adequately - if not admirably.  When you assume the sole responsibility for hosting the site - without any volunteer webmasters, scripters, etc. on staff - suddenly all of that becomes a major issue. 

Not only does it take a lot of work and a lot of effort (difficult to come by when you have a small team of volunteers with full time responsibilities) but it also takes a lot of money - a fact that, as often as it's been pointed out, is just as frequently ignored.

I've got news for you guys:  for every million ad impressions Google will slide you a whopping $75 (gross, pre-tax.)  You're looking at this donation and complaining about its size - how do you think we're going to pay for your dream website?  Now, I know that many of you wouldn't lose any sleep if our staff members sold their own blood to pay for it, but we do have our limitations.  NikeTalk is not, in and of itself, a charity.  First and foremost, it has to be self-sustaining. 

If it costs more to host than it takes in, it doesn't matter if we save up for a year without making any donations in order to cover all the costs associated with moving and redesigning the site.  We're not going to do something that's financially unsustainable.  We're looking into improving the ads, but that, too, takes time.  You have to find the best fit, negotiate the deal, and then, beyond that, you have to go through the trouble of setting up a formal business to handle all of the associated transactions and accounting.  At the end of the day, it's free to complain and takes all of two seconds to accomplish.  Totally restructuring the site is decidedly more costly and complex.  Respect that.
 


The other aspect of this that most of you seem oblivious to is the actual traffic composition of our website.  The overwhelming majority of our visits come not from forum regulars like you and I but, instead, from unregistered viewers.  Where ads are concerned, unique visits matter more than repeat visits.  If you guys see the same ad 100 times, that's not even close to as valuable as 100 people seeing the ad ONCE.  If you have a 1 in 20,000 chance of clicking on a given ad, that chance goes down to 0 in 20,000 after you've seen it.  At least with another person, that's one more 1 in 20,000 chance to earn a shiny nickel instead of a twelfth of a cent.  Advertisers covet unique visits.  Too many repeat visitors padding your traffic stats is a negative - it means your campaign will be less efficient. 

Straight up: most people in this situation would stop giving a damn about what the most difficult, demanding, hard-to-please, and ungrateful segment of their userbase wants.  They'd say, "why do I need that headache when for each one of them I have 10,000 people who visit loyally without complaint?"  I actually look at it the other way.  A few years ago, back when people actually gave a damn about Jordan Brand shoes, those difficult, demanding, hard-to-please fans were harping about quality issues and brand integrity.  Those concerns were dismissed and each time people would argue, "JB doesn't need you, you're like .0005% of their market.  Go buy Reeboks if you're so mad."  The chickens came home to roost on that one.  Jordan Brand lost its core and, with it, their primary means of product differentiation. 

Our community is different.  Our community is authentic.  It's original.  It has its own unique culture.  That's something that emerged organically as we've interacted with our fellow members over the ten and a half years NikeTalk has been in operation.  Whether or not you had a role in starting that chain, each generation of users acts as a link that connects us to our past and carries us into the future.  I want our regulars to be happy because: 1) our staff members have all been recruited from among forum regulars.  That's who we are as a team.  2) Forum users are the ones generating the content that ALL NikeTalk users visit the site to enjoy.  Not every forum regular contributes content that others find worthwhile, but, as a whole, obviously you strive for a healthy and diverse ecosystem.  You want forum regulars, casual users, and periodic visitors to all get what they want out of the site.  Each plays an instrumental role in the community's success. 

What you need to be mindful of, though, is that we can't run the site EXCLUSIVELY to your benefit.  The most hardcore Air Jordan fan on earth would've been happy if the brand decided to produce online exclusive limited release shoes at high end prices that represented the pinnacle of sneaker production and design.  If the company actually took their advice exclusively, they'd have priced themselves right out of the market and whittled their share down even faster than they have been by cheapening and diluting the brand for mass appeal.  It's all about balance.  Sometimes you get tunnel vision when you're locked into your own fixed perspective. 

Your perfect solution may not be economically feasible.  What we have to find is a solution everyone can be happy with.  Maybe that involves stabilizing Yuku and changing the ads.  Maybe it involves switching platforms.  There's a lot at stake and we're not going to roll the dice on the possibility that the quickest, cheapest, and easiest independent hosting solution will solve the problem and satisfy you guys - and all of our users.


Let's face it:  NikeTalk is entertainment and you guys will stop complaining about it around the same time you stop complaining about your favorite sports team or about your friends and loved ones. 

The performance problems are being taken very seriously, but you guys have never STOPPED complaining since you got here.  People have been telling us "NikeTalk felll off" since 2000.  A lot of that has to do with burnout, and it's a cyclical process related to the redundancy in content that's hardly exclusive to our site or even our medium.  You're gonna get bored with twitter.  You're gonna get bored with Facebook.  You're gonna get bored with reality TV.  There's a curve associated with the novelty and entertainment factors in each product.  It becomes more routinized with prolonged and repeated exposure, not unlike the effects associated with various drugs.  You distill the original, formative experience in your mind.  The first time you came across a certain thread type was someone else's fiftieth.  The tenth time won't have the same thrill as the first.  On the other side of the coin, none of the irritants are as bothersome the first time as they are the fiftieth. Case in point, the clichéd responses about this post's length that are almost certain to follow.

It's our responsibility to take the long view.  I don't want a spectacular NikeTalk that we can only afford for a few months. 
 

Methodical Management

Staff member
Co-Founder
6,056
17,735
Joined Dec 8, 1999
Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

Originally Posted by Hankzilla

Originally Posted by CaBron James 23

how bout we contribute something to this failure known as Yuku
because that's more important than helping ppl

than helping people we will never meet, it is.
Let's see: you think it's a waste to sacrifice time and money in attempt to improve the lives of people you'll never meet without receiving so much as a word of thanks in return, is that right?  Hm, sounds like you're asking me to stop caring about you guys and just shut down NikeTalk. 

I suppose I should just be spending money on friends and family, since I hadn't planned on meeting any of you.


Although many of the responses to this topic should inspire frustration, I actually think they're a wonderful proof of concept for us.  At its best, NikeTalk is about connecting with and enjoying the diverse company of like-minded people from around the world.  At its worst, though, NikeTalk can still harness this shallow, spoiled, materialistic, market-driven consumer feeding-frenzy that sneaker fandom has become and convert it into something positive - like a meaningful donation to a worthy cause. 

All those ugly comments that could make one ashamed to be associated with the site are still, in a sense, contributions to our charities, support from people who would never attend a benefit event, volunteer, or give directly to an organization like Doctors Without Borders. 

On the subject though isn't the amount of funds raised linked to the number of hits the site gets??

If so the site being f'd up is effecting more than just people who post on the board.
Do you really think that relationship eluded us? 

It's not as simple as you seem to think it is.  You don't just slap up a vbulletin on an "unlimited" webhost and call it a day.  First of all, without the right hosting configuration you're gonna encounter far worse problems than server lag.  You take for granted that security concerns and routine technical issues won't be a problem because Yuku actually does handle a lot of that stuff adequately - if not admirably.  When you assume the sole responsibility for hosting the site - without any volunteer webmasters, scripters, etc. on staff - suddenly all of that becomes a major issue. 

Not only does it take a lot of work and a lot of effort (difficult to come by when you have a small team of volunteers with full time responsibilities) but it also takes a lot of money - a fact that, as often as it's been pointed out, is just as frequently ignored.

I've got news for you guys:  for every million ad impressions Google will slide you a whopping $75 (gross, pre-tax.)  You're looking at this donation and complaining about its size - how do you think we're going to pay for your dream website?  Now, I know that many of you wouldn't lose any sleep if our staff members sold their own blood to pay for it, but we do have our limitations.  NikeTalk is not, in and of itself, a charity.  First and foremost, it has to be self-sustaining. 

If it costs more to host than it takes in, it doesn't matter if we save up for a year without making any donations in order to cover all the costs associated with moving and redesigning the site.  We're not going to do something that's financially unsustainable.  We're looking into improving the ads, but that, too, takes time.  You have to find the best fit, negotiate the deal, and then, beyond that, you have to go through the trouble of setting up a formal business to handle all of the associated transactions and accounting.  At the end of the day, it's free to complain and takes all of two seconds to accomplish.  Totally restructuring the site is decidedly more costly and complex.  Respect that.
 


The other aspect of this that most of you seem oblivious to is the actual traffic composition of our website.  The overwhelming majority of our visits come not from forum regulars like you and I but, instead, from unregistered viewers.  Where ads are concerned, unique visits matter more than repeat visits.  If you guys see the same ad 100 times, that's not even close to as valuable as 100 people seeing the ad ONCE.  If you have a 1 in 20,000 chance of clicking on a given ad, that chance goes down to 0 in 20,000 after you've seen it.  At least with another person, that's one more 1 in 20,000 chance to earn a shiny nickel instead of a twelfth of a cent.  Advertisers covet unique visits.  Too many repeat visitors padding your traffic stats is a negative - it means your campaign will be less efficient. 

Straight up: most people in this situation would stop giving a damn about what the most difficult, demanding, hard-to-please, and ungrateful segment of their userbase wants.  They'd say, "why do I need that headache when for each one of them I have 10,000 people who visit loyally without complaint?"  I actually look at it the other way.  A few years ago, back when people actually gave a damn about Jordan Brand shoes, those difficult, demanding, hard-to-please fans were harping about quality issues and brand integrity.  Those concerns were dismissed and each time people would argue, "JB doesn't need you, you're like .0005% of their market.  Go buy Reeboks if you're so mad."  The chickens came home to roost on that one.  Jordan Brand lost its core and, with it, their primary means of product differentiation. 

Our community is different.  Our community is authentic.  It's original.  It has its own unique culture.  That's something that emerged organically as we've interacted with our fellow members over the ten and a half years NikeTalk has been in operation.  Whether or not you had a role in starting that chain, each generation of users acts as a link that connects us to our past and carries us into the future.  I want our regulars to be happy because: 1) our staff members have all been recruited from among forum regulars.  That's who we are as a team.  2) Forum users are the ones generating the content that ALL NikeTalk users visit the site to enjoy.  Not every forum regular contributes content that others find worthwhile, but, as a whole, obviously you strive for a healthy and diverse ecosystem.  You want forum regulars, casual users, and periodic visitors to all get what they want out of the site.  Each plays an instrumental role in the community's success. 

What you need to be mindful of, though, is that we can't run the site EXCLUSIVELY to your benefit.  The most hardcore Air Jordan fan on earth would've been happy if the brand decided to produce online exclusive limited release shoes at high end prices that represented the pinnacle of sneaker production and design.  If the company actually took their advice exclusively, they'd have priced themselves right out of the market and whittled their share down even faster than they have been by cheapening and diluting the brand for mass appeal.  It's all about balance.  Sometimes you get tunnel vision when you're locked into your own fixed perspective. 

Your perfect solution may not be economically feasible.  What we have to find is a solution everyone can be happy with.  Maybe that involves stabilizing Yuku and changing the ads.  Maybe it involves switching platforms.  There's a lot at stake and we're not going to roll the dice on the possibility that the quickest, cheapest, and easiest independent hosting solution will solve the problem and satisfy you guys - and all of our users.


Let's face it:  NikeTalk is entertainment and you guys will stop complaining about it around the same time you stop complaining about your favorite sports team or about your friends and loved ones. 

The performance problems are being taken very seriously, but you guys have never STOPPED complaining since you got here.  People have been telling us "NikeTalk felll off" since 2000.  A lot of that has to do with burnout, and it's a cyclical process related to the redundancy in content that's hardly exclusive to our site or even our medium.  You're gonna get bored with twitter.  You're gonna get bored with Facebook.  You're gonna get bored with reality TV.  There's a curve associated with the novelty and entertainment factors in each product.  It becomes more routinized with prolonged and repeated exposure, not unlike the effects associated with various drugs.  You distill the original, formative experience in your mind.  The first time you came across a certain thread type was someone else's fiftieth.  The tenth time won't have the same thrill as the first.  On the other side of the coin, none of the irritants are as bothersome the first time as they are the fiftieth. Case in point, the clichéd responses about this post's length that are almost certain to follow.

It's our responsibility to take the long view.  I don't want a spectacular NikeTalk that we can only afford for a few months. 
 
8,490
1,519
Joined Jan 17, 2007
I stand by my comment - of course I could have been more diplomatic in asserting it - but diplomacy gets no attention, much less a response or an explanation...

...using the proceeds from this website to ''build toilets for amputees'' is commendable, and you'll never hear me speak ill of it, but a fully functional NikeTalk supercedes the immediate demand for charity BECAUSE a fully functional NikeTalk will in turn produce more money - more money, more ''toilets.''

No one is asking for this site to be run exclusively to their own personal benefit, but hundreds of us are asking it to be run properly...

...obviously it won't happen at the snap of a finger, but NT had it's first major performance malfunction in the summer of '08 - granted hindsight is 20/20, and at the time none of us could foresee that Yuku foul-ups would be a reoccuring theme, but two years is ample time to fix almost any problem and was most certainly enough time to fix this website.
 
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