that Syrian Civil War is NO JOKE VOL. over 1300 dead after alleged Nerve gas attack

[wr]

Huh?  I EAS'ed from the Marines in 2012.  Did you miss this when I was talking about humanitarian missions earlier in the thread?

"Pebbles dont phase me", wouldnt it just be easier to say "I really dont know what I'm talking about, but I want people to keep listening, so I'll ignore everything that challenges my position"?

View media item 558252

i know what i'm talking about and your argument is weak. You sitting up here like the public is demanding coordinates on every news brief.

You are trying to bait this issue into a smaller and simpler argument over compromising logistics of troops and their life being on the line just because the public wants some damn evidence so we don't get dragged into another decade long war that bankrupts our economy.

Truth of the matter is that any empire that spends more on it's military than anything else is in decline.

 

[reggiekiller]

 

Huh?  I EAS'ed from the Marines in 2012.  Did you miss this when I was talking about humanitarian missions earlier in the thread?

"Pebbles dont phase me", wouldnt it just be easier to say "I really dont know what I'm talking about, but I want people to keep listening, so I'll ignore everything that challenges my position"?

i know what i'm talking about and your argument is weak. You sitting up here like the public is demanding coordinates on every news brief.

You are trying to bait this issue into a smaller and simpler argument over compromising logistics of troops and their life being on the line just because the public wants some damn evidence so we don't get dragged into another decade long war that bankrupts our economy.

My argument is weak.  My argument is that its a slippery slope.  Who decided when enough stuff has been released?  You're talking about military documents being declassified.  How is troop's lives being on the line a "smaller issue"?

I'm not sitting up here and acting like anything, I'm saying that most of this stuff is on a need to know, and you dont need to know.  I bet the guys in congress who vote on these things know.  So why would you need to know?  So you have more evidence to bring to NT?  The guys who need to know, know.  The guys who dont need to know, dont.

Talmbout "you've never seen war or looked down the barrel".  Unfortunately I have, and even more unforunately, I know people who have died as a result of intel leaks.  One of my buddies is walking around with 1 arm today because of an attack that had been attributed to leaked intel.

I'd be interested to know which barrel you've stared down, or conflict's you've been apart of though, since you felt it appropriate to attack my service

 

[sundoobie]

Do you not see how the release of classified documents can put peoples lives in danger?

In hindsight yes. Anytime you declassify intel in an ongoing operation, you run the risk of the enemy knowing too much. That's why there is a phrase called... "Loose lips, sink ships!"

In regards to OPSEC, this Administration is putting up a spectacle with the propaganda they are using (news outlets, social media, and Capital Hill hearings). If Obama had a backbone, he would have strike fast and decisively targeting Assad/Syrian military commanders. Instead we get a dog and pony show which is only helping Assad shore up allies and preparing himself militarily. I wouldn't doubt it if he puts up human shields including children and old people in military strategic locations to show the horror of the American bombing campaign. This will spur more anti-American sentiment throughout the world thus causing more jihad and so on and so on.

 

[rillo561]

ReggieKILLER, did you serve? Or are you serving?

 

[kspar]

We're still waiting for proof that Assad ordered these chemical attacks.

Our government blatantly lied to us about Iraq and that basically helped bankrupt our economy.

The missiles that are going to be used against Syria are paid for by the taxpayers, us.

So, shouldn't we have a say in this? I believe 90% of the USA is saying NO.

It also seems like the rest of the world is saying NO.

Isn't this supposed to be democracy?

Our country is BROKE. Do people not understand how much we're in debt? Do people care?

How much is this going to ultimately cost us??

Anyways, they obviously already have their minds made up as far as I'm concerned. And I'm disgusted by it.

this may very well be the reason for this war. credibility and maintaining power over monetary market. loss of credibility will lead to the fall of the financial infrastructure of the us.

 

[reggiekiller]

ReggieKILLER, did you serve? Or are you severing?

I did 4 years in the Marine Corps Infantry.

Deployed in 2011 to several locations in the Middle East.  On our way, we were 150 miles off of the coast of Japan on the USS Green Bay when Japan got hit with the tsunami.  Scariest **** ever......sorry for the digression, its funny now, I think I **** myself then though 

Since I got out, I got bored and joined the National Guard, which is a ridiculous caricature of the military.  But they paid all my back student loans from my premilitary days.

But I have no love for being in the military.  I got out of the Marines because I hated how things were ran, but at the end of the day, things are run that way for a reason.  We can't have our cake and eat it to.  

 

[wr]

My argument is weak.  My argument is that its a slippery slope.  Who decided when enough stuff has been released?  You're talking about military documents being declassified.  How is troop's lives being on the line a "smaller issue"?

I'm not sitting up here and acting like anything, I'm saying that most of this stuff is on a need to know, and you dont need to know.  I bet the guys in congress who vote on these things know.  So why would you need to know?  So you have more evidence to bring to NT?  The guys who need to know, know.  The guys who dont need to know, dont.

Talmbout "you've never seen war or looked down the barrel".  Unfortunately I have, and even more unforunately, I know people who have died as a result of intel leaks.  One of my buddies is walking around with 1 arm today because of an attack that had been attributed to leaked intel.

I'd be interested to know which barrel you've stared down, or conflict's you've been apart of though, since you felt it appropriate to attack my service

I could argue the next direction that transparency could have prevented the need for boots on the ground situations all together.

I've lost fam and loved ones to wars domestic and abroad so i'm not finna measure my sorrow against yours.

I am a black man in america. I have had people put guns in my face fighting the War on Drugs, Povert etc. I have been shot at and seen people shot.

I really don't care for whatever justification people make for violence and secrecy.

As I stated earlier, we are going to have to agree to disagree because it is your job to believe in this stuff. I have not taken the same oath's as you so we automatically are not gonna have the same viewpoint on a lot of things.

Let us just agree to disagree so that this thread can be about current events and not a war wounds contest.

 

[createdestroy]

You think I'm dodging,

I'm thinking pebbles don't phase me.

You sitting up here talking about the comradery of combat and you're a junior in college. You've never seen war or looked down the barrel.

.... you said this to a veteran marine?!?!?!.... lol.... comedy.. bet you just put down call of duty to type this nonsense in.

 

[reggiekiller]

 

My argument is weak.  My argument is that its a slippery slope.  Who decided when enough stuff has been released?  You're talking about military documents being declassified.  How is troop's lives being on the line a "smaller issue"?

I'm not sitting up here and acting like anything, I'm saying that most of this stuff is on a need to know, and you dont need to know.  I bet the guys in congress who vote on these things know.  So why would you need to know?  So you have more evidence to bring to NT?  The guys who need to know, know.  The guys who dont need to know, dont.

Talmbout "you've never seen war or looked down the barrel".  Unfortunately I have, and even more unforunately, I know people who have died as a result of intel leaks.  One of my buddies is walking around with 1 arm today because of an attack that had been attributed to leaked intel.

I'd be interested to know which barrel you've stared down, or conflict's you've been apart of though, since you felt it appropriate to attack my service

I could argue the next direction that transparency could have prevented the need for boots on the ground situations all together.

I've lost fam and loved ones to wars domestic and abroad so i'm not finna measure my sorrow against yours.

I am a black man in america. I have had people put guns in my face fighting the War on Drugs, Povert etc. I have been shot at and seen people shot.

I really don't care for whatever justification people make for violence and secrecy.

As I stated earlier, we are going to have to agree to disagree because it is your job to believe in this stuff. I have not taken the same oath's as you so we automatically are not gonna have the same viewpoint on a lot of things.

Let us just agree to disagree so that this thread can be about current events and not a war wounds contest.

actually I'd like to see you make a point of how transparency could have prevented boots on the ground situations all together?

And as I recall, there are, nor are there plans for boots on the ground in Syria, so I dont see the relevance.  

I also am a black man in America.  

 

[wr]

.... you said this to a veteran marine?!?!?!.... lol.... comedy.. bet you just put down call of duty to type this nonsense in.

i play bf3 thank you sir

 

[me love nutella]

Syrian citizens have been saying for months that AQ took over the rebellion as soon as they had a chance.

Which Syrians are you talking about ? Most likely those allied with Assad. AQ is very minute in the rebellion. Tem and their type make more or so less than 10% of the total rebellion force. The majority in the rebellion are local Syrians.

 

[celticsfan9783]

.... you said this to a veteran marine?!?!?!.... lol.... comedy.. bet you just put down call of duty to type this nonsense in.

 

[senatorjeffsmith]

This is what voting for Republicans and Democrats gets you.

I really hope people finally wake up to alternatives. There are third parties. Let's stop the good ol' boy network from ruining this country.

 

[rillo561]

This is what voting for Republicans and Democrats gets you.

I really hope people finally wake up to alternatives. There are third parties. Let's stop the good ol' boy network from ruining this country.

Agreed, but people don't care. Plus it take so much money citizens united ruling basically made sure these 'options' are chosen for you/us

 

[rashi]

Syria 'chemical weapons' crisis: LIVE UPDATES
Published time: August 27, 2013 10:56
Edited time: September 05, 2013 00:33


International pressure has been building for a military strike on Syria in the wake of an alleged chemical weapons attack in a Damascus suburb. The West has laid the blame at the feet of President Assad, as UN experts collected chemical samples on-site.
Wednesday, September 4

23:58 GMT: Russian lawmakers have announced plans to meet with US congressional leaders to discuss Syria, according to CNN. Previous reports speculated that Russia would send a delegation to Washington but it is not clear whether they will arrive before Monday, when the Senate and House of Representatives are scheduled to debate a bill authorizing military force in Syria.

House Speaker John Boehner, however, has already declined the invitation, according to Boehner spokesman Michael Steel, who did not provide a reason.

“At this particular point, my understanding has been that relations between members of Congress and the Russian parliament have been very sour,” **** Lugar, the former head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN. “I don’t think a delegation from Russia will make any difference in terms of congressional votes. But at the same time there may be the possibility that dialogue could lead to other positive things.”

23:35 GMT: The Pentagon has issued a clarification to US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel’s assertion Wednesday that Russia had supplied chemical weapons to Syria.

During the House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on potential use of force against Syria, Hagel alluded to Syria’s stockpile of chemical weapons. When asked where they came from, Hagel said, “Well, the Russians supply them. Others are supplying them with those chemical weapons. They make some themselves.”

Pentagon spokesman George Little explained in a statement Hagel was referring to the “well-known conventional arms relationship between Syria and Russia.”

The full statement from Little:

“In a response to a member of Congress, Secretary Hagel was referring to the well-known conventional arms relationship between Syria and Russia. The Syrian regime has a decades-old largely indigenous chemical weapons program. Currently, Russia provides the Syrian regime a wide variety of military equipment and support, some of which can be modified or otherwise used to support the chemical weapons program. We have publicly and privately expressed our concern over the destabilizing impact on the Syrian conflict and the wider region of continued military shipments to the Assad regime.”

22:00 GMT: The White House praised the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for passing an authorization of military force against Syria hours after questioning top administration officials on potential strikes.

"We commend the Senate for moving swiftly and for working across party lines on behalf of our national security," White House press secretary Jay Carney said in a statement.

The resolution now goes to the full Senate for debate. The bill needs 60 votes to ultimately pass.

21:53 GMT: Former Syrian Defense Minister Ali Habib has not fled the country, state television reported Wednesday.

"There is no truth to what the media has reported on the travel of former defence minister Ali Habib Mahmoud outside of Syria and he is still in his home," Syrian state television quoted an official source as saying.

A top member of the opposition Syrian National Coalition had previously told Reuters Habib had defected to Turkey.

21:43 GMT: Probes from Khan al-Assal show chemicals used in the March 19 attack did not belong to standard Syrian army ammunition, and that the shell carrying the substance was similar to those made by a rebel fighter group, the Russian Foreign Ministry stated.

A statement released by the ministry on Wednesday particularly drew attention to the “massive stove-piping of various information aimed at placing the responsibility for the alleged chemical weapons use in Syria on Damascus, even though the results of the UN investigation have not yet been revealed.”

By such means “the way is being paved for military action” against Damascus, the ministry pointed out.

But the samples taken at the site of the March 19 attack and analyzed by Russian experts indicate that a projectile carrying the deadly nerve agent sarin was most likely fired at Khan al-Assal by the rebels, the ministry statement suggests, outlining the 100-page report handed over to the UN by Russia.

21:23 GMT: US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel insisted that any military strike on Syria for use of chemical weapons would significantly reduce President Bashar Assad's military might.

"The president has said ... this would not be a pin prick. Those were his words. This would be a significant strike that would in fact degrade his capability," Hagel said during a hearing in front of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, which will consider authorizing use of military force in the coming days.

Hagel and Secretary of State John Kerry agreed that “likelihood is very high” Assad would use chemical weapons again should the US not use force.

Hagel added during the hearing that a limited military strike campaign in Syria would likely cost “tens of millions” of dollars.

"We have looked at the different costs, depending on the different options," Hagel said. "It would be in the tens of millions of dollars, that kind of range."

21:00 GMT: During Wednesday afternoon’s hearing before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel suggested that the Assad regime received some of their alleged chemical weapons arsenal from Russia.

“There’s no secret that the Assad regime has had chemical weapons, significant stockpiles of chemical weapons,” Hagel said.

When asked by Rep. Joe Wilson (R-South Carolina) to elaborate, Hagel responded, "The Russians supply them, others are supplying them with those chemical weapons, they make some themselves.”

18:13 GMT: Rep. Brian Higgins (D-New York) questioned the United States’ potential involvement in the Syrian civil war by insisting that the US should concentrate on its domestic endeavors, not efforts abroad.

“The American people are sick and tired of war,” Higgins told Secretary of State John Kerry. “It’s time to nation build — in America.”

18:07 GMT: Answering critique from Rep. Ted Deutsh (D-Florida) about America’s potential role in the Syrian civil war, Secretary of State told the committee, "The United States of America is not being the world’s policeman."

17:23 GMT: Senator Robert Menendez, chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told reporters that a meeting and potentially a vote could occur as early as 2 p.m. local time, or 1800 GMT, today.

16:48 GMT: According to Reuters, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is expected to vote later today on the draft resolution presented on Tuesday which would authorize the use of military force in Syria

16:36 GMT: Secretary of State John Kerry is again the lead witness during a Congressional hearing in Washington, this time one hosted by the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

During Wednesday afternoon testimony, Kerry said that new evidence has surfaced only hours earlier linking Assad’s regime to the August 21 attack near Damascus that the White House says killed over 1,400 people.

Meanwhile, anti-war protesters with the group Code Pink assembled during the hearing seated behind Kerry. International television cameras captured the demonstrators with symbolic “blood” on their hands.

During Tuesday’s hearing in the Senate, Code Pink co-founder Madea Benjamin was ejected from the facility during an outburst that occurred moments into the meeting.

14:58 GMT: Russian President Vladimir Putin criticized remarks made by the US Secretary of State John Kerry at the Congressional debate, saying Kerry “lied” by claiming there was no Al-Qaeda militants fighting in Syria and that the military strike against President Assad will not boost the terrorist network’s presence in the region.

“Well, he [Kerry] lies. And he knows that he lies. This is sad,” Putin remarked as he spoke to human rights activists on Wednesday, saying that the Al-Nusra Front terrorist organization, which pledged allegiance to Al-Qaeda, has been at the forefront of the rebel groups fighting Assad’s forces, and that the US is well aware of that.

Speaking of Kerry’s confidence in that Assad’s forces used chemical weapons, Putin recalled former US Secretary of State Colin Powell’s rhetoric on the eve of American invasion in Iraq. It later turned out that all Powell’s arguments that Iraq had chemical weapons “did not hold water,” the Russian President stressed.

13:40 GMT: President Barack Obama said the credibility of the US Congress was on the line regarding the need to uphold a ban on chemical weapons in Syria.

"My credibility is not on the line. The international community's credibility is on the line," he told a news conference in Sweden. "America and Congress's credibility is on the line, because we give lip service to the notion that these international norms are important," Obama added.

13:16 GMT: US President Barack Obama urged the international community to respond effectively to chemical weapons’ use in Syria during his statement at a press conference in Sweden.

A "real strong message” to Assad must be sent to ‘degrade’ his ability to use chemical weapons again, the President added.

Obama stated that he was not required to submit proposals for military action to Congress for approval, but also said that not doing so was no empty exercise.

10:20 GMT: Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan reiterated on Wednesday that Turkey would take part in any international coalition against Syria but didn't say whether that would include military action.

00:47 GMT: A new US Senate draft resolution for authorizing use of military force in Syria sets a 60-day deadline, with one 30-day extension possible, while barring ground forces.

The resolution was drafted by Sens. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) and Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), the chairman and ranking member of the Foreign Relations Committee. The resolution needs 60 votes in the Senate to overcome a filibuster by opponents.

The draft follows Tuesday’s hearing on Syria featuring testimony from US Secretary of State John Kerry, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin Dempsey and Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel.

00:30 GMT: Though not yet in session, members of the US House of Representatives have released two separate draft resolutions on potential US military action in Syria, Politico reported.

Rep. Devin Nunes (Calif.), a top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, offered a resolution calling for President Obama to consult with Congress within 60 days to provide information on nine fronts to justify the use of military force.

The resolution would require a summary of “attempts to build a coalition; a ‘detailed plan for military action in Syria, including specific goals and military objectives;’ what would qualify as degrading the chemical weapons supply; an explanation how a limited military strike would encourage regime change, prevent terrorists from taking control of power or weapons, secure the chemical weapons and deter their future use; how a strike would prevent Iran and Russia from keeping Assad in power; information about Al Qaeda’s access to weapons; an explanation of whether weapons from Libya are being used by the Syrian opposition and an estimation of the cost.”

The other resolution, offered by Democrats Rep. Gerry Connolly (Va.) and Rep. Chris Van Hollen (Md.), is also supportive of a Syria attack but seeks to narrow the scope of any such action. Their resolution bars use of ground forces, limits attacks to 60 days while prohibiting a second series of attacks -- unless the Obama administration has proof Assad used chemical weapons again -- and says an attack on Syria can only happen to prevent use, not stockpiling, of chemical weapons.

http://rt.com/news/syria-crisis-live-updates-047/

 

[importfan90000]

Russia Today is an English mouthpiece for Vladimir Putin any information from that media outlet is biased and highly favorable of Russian positions and views.

The reason for Russian interest in Syria is because of the Naval Port of Tartus it is the only symbolic vestige of power for Russia in the region and Russia only warm water port in the Eastern Mediterranean if the Assad Regime were to crumble than Russia would surely loose it. Until they can negotiate with Cypress to have a Naval Presence there loosing the port would definitely decrease Russia's ability to project power in the region.  

 

[david bowman]

what is the point of killing people that aren't assad? giving them weeks of warning?

what deterrent is that?

what if he thorws out CW again? (im not convinced he did it once)

then we do it again? do what? bomb structures?

this *** robert gibbs said we are gonna send missles and not kill anyone! whaaaa?

 

[Nike Jordan]

This is what voting for Republicans and Democrats gets you.

I really hope people finally wake up to alternatives. There are third parties. Let's stop the good ol' boy network from ruining this country.

The voting system favors only favors two parties.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

Syrian citizens have been saying for months that AQ took over the rebellion as soon as they had a chance.

Which Syrians are you talking about ? Most likely those allied with Assad. AQ is very minute in the rebellion. Tem and their type make more or so less than 10% of the total rebellion force. The majority in the rebellion are local Syrians.

Both sides have talked about this. They haven't taken over in numbers, it was said that a bulk of the weapons and extreme violence has been from AQ and other extremists.

I never got how Americans know the makeup of the forces over there. Where did you see that

 

[thadoctadvocate]

Who are they looking to fight against

 

[menacin methods]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/on-the-middle-east/2013/sep/04/syria-assad-obama-germany

In the high-stakes drama over chemical weapons use in Syria, the US, France and Britain have all made clear that they hold the Assad regime responsible for the Ghouta attack on August 21st. Syria rejects the charge, and like its close ally Russia, blames the rebels. Neither have yet produced any evidence to support their position. Germany's intelligence assessment adds some intriguing new detail.

According to Der Spiegel, Gerhard Schindler, the head of the BND external intelligence service, told MPs in Berlin on Monday that while there was still no "incontestable proof," analysis of the evidence has led his service to believe that Assad's regime is to blame. Schindler also emphasized that the rebels were unable to carry out such a concerted attack.

In line with the three other western assessments, the German spy chief stressed the size of Syria's CW arsenal and its ability to use it. Schindler also believes CW had been used on a smaller scale before August 21. Britain's Joint Intelligence Committee assessment counted 14 separate incidents — though it has not publicized its evidence. Schindler said that in the earlier attacks the poison gas mixture was diluted, explaining the much lower death tolls in those assaults.

The UK assessment, the sketchiest of the three published reports, admitted that it could not explain Assad's motivation, especially given the presence in Damascus of UN inspectors investigating previous incidents. But Germany has followed France and the US in suggesting that chemical weapons had been used to intimidate the rebels and capture territory in a crucial battle for Damascus, especially to the east of the capital.

There is a twist: "It could also be the case that errors were made in mixing the gas and it was much more potent than anticipated," Schindler said. Estimates of fatalities range from the US figure of 1429 to the French one of 281.

Schindler also presented an additional clue, one that has not thus far been made public. He said that the BND listened in on a conversation between a high-ranking member of the Lebanese militia Hezbollah, which supports Assad and provides his regime with military assistance, and the Iranian embassy (it does not say whether this was in Beirut or Damascus) . The Hezbollah functionary, Schindler reported, seems to have admitted that poison gas was used. He said that Assad lost his nerve and made a big mistake by ordering the chemical weapons attack.

The new information from the BND could become important in the coming days. Thus far the US has only noted that after the attack, intelligence agencies had intercepted internal government communications indicating concern about a possible UN inspection of the site. The telephone conversation intercepted by the BND could be an important piece in the puzzle currently being assembled by Western intelligence experts.

The German take on the current crisis is likely to be taken seriously. The BND has a track record of good intelligence "coverage" of Lebanon and Syria (and Iran) and has often played a role mediating between Israel, Damascus and Hezbollah.

 

[senatorjeffsmith]

The voting system favors only favors two parties.

In 2016 we'll see a third party get a lot of votes (a la Perot in 1992). The key is going to be ballot access in all 50 states and participation in debates. It's an uphill climb because the corporatist debate commission is as corrupt is the sky is blue.

If enough people are fed up with the rotten duopoly then anything is possible. Participation by the people can overcome a large war chest.

 

[rashi]

Russia Today is an English mouthpiece for Vladimir Putin any information from that media outlet is biased and highly favorable of Russian positions and views.

Fox News, National Review, Washington Examiner, ect. is the mouthpiece for the Republican Party and the Likud Party. MSNBC, CNN, The Nation, ect are mouthpieces for the Democratic Party. What's your point?

 

[al audi]

We're still waiting for proof that Assad ordered these chemical attacks.

Our government blatantly lied to us about Iraq and that basically helped bankrupt our economy.

The missiles that are going to be used against Syria are paid for by the taxpayers, us.

So, shouldn't we have a say in this? I believe 90% of the USA is saying NO.

It also seems like the rest of the world is saying NO.

Isn't this supposed to be democracy?

Our country is BROKE. Do people not understand how much we're in debt? Do people care?

How much is this going to ultimately cost us??

Anyways, they obviously already have their minds made up as far as I'm concerned. And I'm disgusted by it.

Smh

 

[importfan90000]

 

Given that third parties combine garner not even 2% of total turnout in the total voter turnout for 2013 it not likely to happen in 2016 or in the near future.

United States presidential election, 2012[26]

Party                     Candidate                    Votes          %           

Democratic         Barack Obama (inc.)        65,899,583          51.03% 

Republican          Mitt Romney                   60,931,966          47.19% 

Libertarian        Gary Johnson                  1,275,821            0.99%   

Green                Jill Stein                           468,907             0.36%

Constitution       Virgil Goode                     121,616             0.09%   

Others  Others                                            434,247             0.34%   

Minority Party Total                                       (2,300,591)      (1.78%)

Total Turn Out Turnout                                 129,132,140     100.00%