Washington Wizards 2012-2013 Season Thread - Thanks for a great year!

[Methodical Management]

Caught some of the game last night. A few observations:

Jan Vesely does NOT look like a guy who can get more than 10mpg. He's a bust in every sense of the word. Dude looks completely lost on the court. SMH.

Martell Webster IS our starter at the 3. Dude has been balling since day 1. Hopefully he can keep it up.

Yup, PLEASE start Brad Beal.

For as little game as AJ Price has, I'm happy to see that he won't back down from guys on the other team.

Remember "Thunderstruck," Hollywood's answer to the question no one asked:  "What if you made Space Jam without Michael Jordan or the Looney Tunes characters and focused it entirely on one of the talent-drained NBA Stars?"  

You don't need to pay $7.50 to see what it would be like if Kevin Durant lost all of his talent.  Just watch Jan Vesely.  

For about the same price as Thunderstruck's entire budget, the Wizards will see what it's like to give heavy minutes to a 6'11" guy who can run the floor, but can't shoot, dribble, pass, defend, hold his ground, or tie his shoes.  He has no touch, no handle, no instincts, and no clue. 

He's not an NBA player.  His best skill for Partizan Belgrade was dunking, which, at his height, requires him to reach up and lean forward.  And, for that, he was dubbed "the dunk ninja" overseas.  I'm afraid that doesn't really translate.  Here in the NBA, he lives solely on garbage points and, for that, he deserves nothing more than garbage minutes.  He should be behind every forward we have on the depth chart.  End of the bench?  Sit him twelve rows behind the bench.  

I've had enough of seeing 20+ minutes, 5 fouls, no free throws, and below 30% shooting.  This guy delivers worse lines than Tori Spelling.

We could've had Klay Thompson, though I understand this team's reluctance to draft a player with a drug-related suspension.  We could've drafted Kawhi Leonard, who was going to the Wizards in a number of the mock drafts.  That would've been pretty nice.  As "projects", I'd be happy with Biyombo over Vesely.   I wasn't thrilled when the mocks were projecting Montejunas, but I'd taken Montejunas over Vesely in a heartbeat.  I'd be happy with Lavoy Allen or Kenneth Faried over Vesely.  I'd be happy with an an empty chair over Vesely.  At least the chair could set a pick without fouling. 

2011 was a weak, weak draft, but we still could've traded that pick.  It would've been better to PASS on the pick than to pay $3.5 million per year and waste a roster spot on a non-contributor.  Send him to the D-league so I don't have to look at him anymore.  He simply cannot play at this level - and anyone who thinks "it's too early to judge" hasn't been kept track with our player development history.  What you see is what you'll get.  The guy is a certified bum. 

Prove me wrong, Jan.  Prove me wrong. 

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

I would rather see Joel Osteen in a Wizards uniform than Vesely. When I watch him play, I have to remind myself that the Wizards actually CHOSE this guy......he wasn't some baggage in a bad trade or a player the team was stuck with.

 

[wavy bone]

I apologize for thinking the Hornets deal wasn't "that bad". I was wrong.

In the back of my mind...I was thinking Ariza/Okafor are still serviceable vets. And even moreso I was just elated that the Blatche/McGee/Young era had come to an end (I don't care if all 3 become all stars...they had to go).

I take back whatever I said to people who were weary of the deal. They were right. That deal set us back.

- Ariza is TERRIBLE. Absolutely TERRIBLE. He can't dribble. He can't shoot. Outside of playing passing lanes...he's not even that good of a defender anymore
- Okafor played decent against the Nets...and if he can remain serviceable for at least 65 games this year he's not bad to have. But still...I'd have rather just paid Shard to leave.
- This team is going to be bad for for the next two years pending some sort of miraculous trade for a star or John Wall turns into a 24 and 10 player. So whatever money comes off the book for 2014...who's really going to want and come and play here?
- The draft isn't that great next year. 2014 is looking good tho
- All that said...I am TOTALLY against spending just to spend. I noticed alot of fans upset that we weren't players in Free Agency the past couple of years but for what? Why overspend for guys that aren't going to place you in the top 4 teams in the conference. I'm all about having flexibility. If we're not fielding a top playoff team...why throw big money at somebody like Kris Humphries just because you had it sitting around? Point blank...we need to find our cornerstones and then build your team through free agency. I believe we have our ONE cornerstone (Wall) and despite his faults...I respectfully disagree with anyone who believes he isn't.
- http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents/ = Who on that list puts us over the top that we would realistically have a shot at? If we could somehow find a way to get DMC...that would be perfect but that's a long shot. We should have been finding a way to get him after his rookie season when they were more likely to try and move him.

On to player evals...

- Jan Vesley just isn't a basketball player. I tried to look past his faults and focus on the things he does well...but unfortunately I just don't see what his ceiling is. He's tall, is pretty quick, and jumps high. That's pretty much it. He shows no signs of developing any sort of legitimate skill set. Most "projects" still show signs of what they can eventually become. For example...we all know what Javale could be if he put it all together. Jan on the other hand? I'm not sure. He's an offensive liability at the 3, and too weak to play the 4. His only use on the floor is in the open court and unfortunately...we can't fast break for every offensive possession in every game. He's useless. I hope I'm proven wrong...but I kind of seen the writing on the wall with him last year. Another wasted pick.

- Brad Beal is going to be a BEAST. He may fly under the radar all the way to ROY. Leading all rookies in scoring in the preseason despite only being 5th in minutes. Kid is just super smooth. I didn't see it at Florida...but now I'm understanding the Ray Allen comparisons. His jumpshot is just a beautiful thing to watch coming off screens. He may literally be our most steady player this season. Some things he'll learn as he goes along...like not going up for weak *** layups with premium athletes like Kris Humphries trailing you on the break. But he'll be aight.

- I hate Jordan Crawford. Nick Young Jr. It's frustrating because for every good thing he does...he takes two steps back by following up with his typical "shoot first, shoot second, shoot third" tendencies. It sucks because he has talent...he just plays the game the wrong way.

- We have the worst backup point guard core in NBA history. I challenge any of you to find me a trio worse than Mack, Pargo, and Price. I dare you.

I don't know how I thought this would be a playoff team. Quite honestly...even at full strength...we're going to struggle to get that 8th spot.

 

[jjs07]

Remember "Thunderstruck," Hollywood's answer to the question no one asked:  "What if you made Space Jam without Michael Jordan or the Looney Tunes characters and focused it entirely on one of the talent-drained NBA Stars?"  

You don't need to pay $7.50 to see what it would be like if Kevin Durant lost all of his talent.  Just watch Jan Vesely.  

For about the same price as Thunderstruck's entire budget, the Wizards will see what it's like to give heavy minutes to a 6'11" guy who can run the floor, but can't shoot, dribble, pass, defend, hold his ground, or tie his shoes.  He has no touch, no handle, no instincts, and no clue. 

He's not an NBA player.  His best skill for Partizan Belgrade was dunking, which, at his height, requires him to reach up and lean forward.  And, for that, he was dubbed "the dunk ninja" overseas.  I'm afraid that doesn't really translate.  Here in the NBA, he lives solely on garbage points and, for that, he deserves nothing more than garbage minutes.  He should be behind every forward we have on the depth chart.  End of the bench?  Sit him twelve rows behind the bench.  


I've had enough of seeing 20+ minutes, 5 fouls, no free throws, and below 30% shooting.  This guy delivers worse lines than Tori Spelling.

We could've had Klay Thompson, though I understand this team's reluctance to draft a player with a drug-related suspension.  We could've drafted Kawhi Leonard, who was going to the Wizards in a number of the mock drafts.  That would've been pretty nice.  As "projects", I'd be happy with Biyombo over Vesely.   I wasn't thrilled when the mocks were projecting Montejunas, but I'd taken Montejunas over Vesely in a heartbeat.  I'd be happy with Lavoy Allen or Kenneth Faried over Vesely.  I'd be happy with an an empty chair over Vesely.  At least the chair could set a pick without fouling. 

2011 was a weak, weak draft, but we still could've traded that pick.  It would've been better to PASS on the pick than to pay $3.5 million per year and waste a roster spot on a non-contributor.  Send him to the D-league so I don't have to look at him anymore.  He simply cannot play at this level - and anyone who thinks "it's too early to judge" hasn't been kept track with our player development history.  What you see is what you'll get.  The guy is a certified bum. 

Prove me wrong, Jan.  Prove me wrong. 

One of my problems w. Vesely is that he has shown no improvement in his game since last season. I expected MUCH more out of him. He was the #6 pick. He has pro experience. He's on the older end of the rookies drafted last year (especially in the top-10). I can't stand when people try to justify the selection by saying things like "well, he does things that don't show up in the stat sheet." or "he sets amazing picks." You don't take a guy that high in the draft to do those things. THose are expectations for guys drafted in round 2 out of Duke. He's turning out to look like a colossal bust.

At least with a guy like Chris Singleton (who I'm not high on), he's at least shown through summer league and the preseason that he's been working on improving his game. Where is it with Jan?

Also, I'm not exactly sure what's going on w/ Ariza. Dude says he's trying to get adjusted, but IMO, he looks like he doesn't give a **** out there on the floor. I highly doubt that he'd pull a Mike Bibby, but damn....he looks horrible. I didn't think much of the Martell Webster signing, but he looks like he's going to be our starting 3 to open the year.

Guys have to get healthy and play close to .500 ball while Wall is out. Might be easier said than done with the way the roster is shaking out at the moment.

*Brad Beal is silky smooth out there. Dude just knows how to ball. I know Wall has to be excited at the prospect of sharing the backcourt w/ him. Got two franchise cornerstones - build from there. PLEASE.

 

[extraordinary swag]

completely agree with what yall have said about Jan, he has zero game and literally hasn't made any improvements from what i've seen thus far

knowing Faried and Klay were drafted after him makes me cringe :x

 

[the coolness]

Hey, not a Wizards fan here but I'll be keeping an eye on the team this season for Beal's rookie campaign. He's been looking good from what I've seen. Still don't understand why Crawford is starting ahead of him but . Hope you guys get that 8th seed.

 

[Methodical Management]

I apologize for thinking the Hornets deal wasn't "that bad". I was wrong.

In the back of my mind...I was thinking Ariza/Okafor are still serviceable vets. And even moreso I was just elated that the Blatche/McGee/Young era had come to an end (I don't care if all 3 become all stars...they had to go).

I take back whatever I said to people who were weary of the deal. They were right. That deal set us back.

- Ariza is TERRIBLE. Absolutely TERRIBLE. He can't dribble. He can't shoot. Outside of playing passing lanes...he's not even that good of a defender anymore
- Okafor played decent against the Nets...and if he can remain serviceable for at least 65 games this year he's not bad to have. But still...I'd have rather just paid Shard to leave.
- This team is going to be bad for for the next two years pending some sort of miraculous trade for a star or John Wall turns into a 24 and 10 player. So whatever money comes off the book for 2014...who's really going to want and come and play here?
- The draft isn't that great next year. 2014 is looking good tho

- All that said...I am TOTALLY against spending just to spend. I noticed alot of fans upset that we weren't players in Free Agency the past couple of years but for what? Why overspend for guys that aren't going to place you in the top 4 teams in the conference. I'm all about having flexibility. If we're not fielding a top playoff team...why throw big money at somebody like Kris Humphries just because you had it sitting around? Point blank...we need to find our cornerstones and then build your team through free agency. I believe we have our ONE cornerstone (Wall) and despite his faults...I respectfully disagree with anyone who believes he isn't.
- http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents/ = Who on that list puts us over the top that we would realistically have a shot at? If we could somehow find a way to get DMC...that would be perfect but that's a long shot. We should have been finding a way to get him after his rookie season when they were more likely to try and move him.
 

See, the problem I have is that, while we do get cap room in two years once Ariza and Okafor's AWFUL deals come off the books, there was NO advantage to taking them on for TWO years when we could've done what New Orleans did and simply waived Lewis NOW to gain cap relief IMMEDIATELY.  

I agree that it makes no sense to overpay for second or third-tier talent, which is a weakness of all bottom-feeders like Washington, but there were bargains to be found this summer.  Just look at the amnesty signings!  

You cannot tell me that Brand, Scola, Kaman, Childress, or even Haywood wouldn't have helped this team as much or more than Ariza and Okafor - and at a SUBSTANTIALLY reduced rate.  If there's nobody out there you're interested in signing at a bargain rate, FINE!  You don't HAVE to spend the money.  In fact, it's to your advantage to have a little extra space so you can absorb a deal as part of a mid-season trade when teams in the middle of the pack start getting desperate.  

The worst case scenario for us was to lock ourselves in to mediocrity.  The Wizards will not find a greater fool willing to eat Okafor and Ariza's contracts.  Nothing short of including John Wall or Bradley Beal would make such a trade possible.  We are stuck with this flawed core for two full seasons, and when their time is up, Wall's CONTRACT is up.  Would any of us truly blame him if he opts to leave at that point?  

Hey, not a Wizards fan here but I'll be keeping an eye on the team this season for Beal's rookie campaign. He's been looking good from what I've seen. Still don't understand why Crawford is starting ahead of him but

. Hope you guys get that 8th seed.

Thanks for the well wishes!  We're all just as confused as you when it comes to Crawford starting over Beal, but that's what you get when you appoint your assistant coach as your head coach for no reason other than the fact that he's already under contract.  

We can understand why the Thunder would prefer to bring Harden off the bench.  We can understand why the Spurs bring Manu off their bench.  I don't understand why the Wizards want to bring Beal off of their bench, aside from the fact that "he's a rookie."  Our starting lineup doesn't have enough firepower to contend with the league's better teams.  We're one dimensional and far to easy to defend.  Pack the lane, give the selfish, lackluster shooters enough rope to hang themselves.  

With Okafor AND Nene, there won't be many driving lanes for Wall and, frankly, I'd rather not see him become the next Derrick Rose in terms of injuries.  We didn't draft him to play halfback.  That means we need to have either cutters off of Okafor/Nene screens or we need to play inside out, which negates Wall's passing abilities.  In either case, Beal is 1) a better shooter than Crawford (ESPECIALLY off screens and in pick & pop) and 2) he's also a better FINISHER than Crawford.  

Leaving him to come off the bench simply because he's a rookie and that's "conventional thinking" is a waste of everyone's time.  And besides:  if we're not paying to watch a winner, at least let us watch the kid play.  Jordan Crawford had his chance.  
I think Singleton's a solid reserve.  Every team needs a utility guy who can come in, play solid defense, and hit an open corner shot.  He has the potential to fulfill that role for us, and his size only adds to his versatility.  He's the only reason the 2011 draft wasn't an absolute wash for us.  

Perhaps what I like best about Webster, from what I've seen thus far, is how he's managed to manufacture points from the line even when his shot isn't falling.  We don't have nearly enough of that on this team.  Guys *cough* Crawford *cough* just settle for jump shots.  

Ariza was the presumed starter heading into training camp.  Now, it seems that we have dilemmas/openings at multiple positions.  This begs the question...
[h1]With Wall and Nene out:  who would you guys start to open the season?  [/h1]

 

[wavy bone]

PG - G-Wiz or a concession vendor
SG - Beal
SF - Webster
PF - Booker
C - Okafor

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

The fact that Singleton bought $10,000 on lottery tickets as a professional athlete leads me to believe he is not confident in his abilities or his longevity in the NBA. Dude is one of those old looking young dudes. What is he 22/23? He looks 36 out there.....hope he improves this season.

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

Here is the Wizards roster from 11/12 years ago:




http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2001.html#roster::none


Sadly.....not much as changed in comparison to this roster.

 

[Peep Game]

^I only came in here cause of that roster link you posted...:x :x my goodness. Juwan at 27, Rip Hamilton hat), Christian Laettener, Mitch Richmond, Popeye Jones ...wow

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

It was a modern day miracle a 40 year old MJ even got those scrub squads close to .500. Tyrone Nesby.....Tyrone freaking Nesby!? You serious? Jahidi White and Popeye Jones? An old disinterested lackluster Mitch Richmond (Who we traded Chris Webber in his prime for)?


Stop the horror....the memories.

 

[wavy bone]

Webber for Richmond was the worst trade ever. EVER.

(Don't say Kwame for Pau because they got back Little Gasol too)

 

[pmatic]

We can't forget the gem that was the #5 pick (Rubio) for Foye and Miller.

 

[rdfm]

ESPN The Magazine's NBA preview puts the playoff chances at 0%.

 

[Peep Game]

It was a modern day miracle a 40 year old MJ even got those scrub squads close to .500. Tyrone Nesby.....Tyrone freaking Nesby!? You serious? Jahidi White and Popeye Jones? An old disinterested lackluster Mitch Richmond (Who we traded Chris Webber in his prime for)?


Stop the horror....the memories.

How in the world did that happen???

 

[Methodical Management]

It was a modern day miracle a 40 year old MJ even got those scrub squads close to .500. Tyrone Nesby.....Tyrone freaking Nesby!? You serious? Jahidi White and Popeye Jones? An old disinterested lackluster Mitch Richmond (Who we traded Chris Webber in his prime for)?


Stop the horror....the memories.

How in the world did that happen???

That was after Webber's arrest in 1998.  

The club needed to break up the Howard/Webber duo once their partying became a PR issue and the team failed to meet expectations.  They'd signed Juwan Howard to an impossibly stupid $100 million contract back in '96, after nearly losing him to the Miami Heat.  (The deal had already been signed, but the league invalidated it as a violation of the salary cap.)  Given his production, no team in the league would touch him.  It took years before they were finally able to dump him off on Dallas.  That left Webber as the only player left they could possibly move. 

Mitch Richmond was considered one of the best "under the radar" players in the league.  (The guys on NBATV's "Open Court" acknowledged as much in a recent episode.)  MJ himself thought highly of him, and prevailing wisdom held that Richmond would've been a superstar had he only played in a major media market.  He was also a model citizen.  

The Wizards' logic - and, granted, it's stupid - was to dump a "knucklehead" and bring in a franchise-caliber player who the organization and the city could be proud of.  The Kings' motivation was obvious, but bear in mind that Webber was still considered something of a risk at that time.  The Kings felt that the dearth of nightlife activities in Sacramento helped minimize that risk, which made them a more eager trade partner than most.  

It's impossible to believe that Richmond really was the best deal on the table, as it rarely makes sense to trade big for small, let alone young for old, but this was a very "image conscious" team and bringing in more young kids frightened the club's increasingly-conservative management.  

What they did was similar, in spirit, to Portland breaking up the so-called "Jailblazers."  They got worse - much worse - under the rationale that fans would prefer clean-cut losers to "thugs."  (This was only a few years before the NBA instituted its "professional dress requirements" to placate racist fans.)  

Everyone knew it was a lopsided trade and the Wizards were roundly lambasted in the press for it, but the local media also flipped out when it seemed the Wizards had lost Howard to the Heat.  (I remember Michael Wilbon, then a journalist, dashed out a particularly indignant rant on the subject for the Washington Post.)  The team was damned if it did and damned if it didn't, and management resigned themselves to failure.  Webber/Howard/Strickland never lived up to their billing, earning only a first round sweep at the hands of the Bulls - and they needed a tie-breaking win against the Cavs in the last game of the regular season to even accomplish that.  Rebuilding was inevitable and they likely wanted to at least have one true pro on the roster to help future picks progress. 

It'll go down as one of the worst trades in league history, but it is helpful to place it in its proper context.  It was a bad decision on every level, but it wasn't strictly a basketball decision.  

 

[Peep Game]

Ahhhh I didn't even think about Webber and Howard still partying and stuff like they were back in college, and i pretty much had forgot Webber had all those charges against him. Wow, guess that really was a move they had to make no matter what, and still to this day they haven't recovered. Thanks for that info. Looking at some of the other players on that roster along with the years before Webber was traded....George Muresean, Lorenzo Williams, man, these are guys I haven't heard from in years.

 

[wavy bone]

I remember Juwan & C-Webb ran a train on some broad and she tried to claim sexual assault.

Case got dropped.

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

I remember reading all the trouble Webber was getting into in the Washington Post....and I still believe now the same thing I did back then. You keep Webber and get rid of Howard if you have to make a choice. I always liked Webber's game and that's why I rooted for him to win out there in Sacramento.

I thought Wes Unseld and the Wizards front office made a knee jerk reaction. The Lakers didn't trade Kobe when he had his rape case. I know a young unproven Webber is not Kobe Bryant, but I am all for sticking by your players during off the court issues.....or at least waiting for the dust to settle and for the facts to be present.




Don't even get started on the multitude of other dumb decisions the Wizards had made.......

-Stackhouse for Rip Hamilton
-Ben Wallace.......Rasheed Wallace
-Courtney Alexander?



There are reasons I get skeptical with each move. I didn't like the Okafor and Ariza moves last year.....and I don't like them now.

 

[jordan23dotcom]

ESPN The Magazine's NBA preview puts the playoff chances at 0%.

that sounds about right

 

[jjs07]

Got tickets to a Heat game in December from work in section 432. IS IT EVEN WORTH GOING WITH THESE SEATS? Never been in the Verizon Center so let me know. Thanks.

Bring your binoculars.

 

[rdfm]

Got tickets to a Heat game in December from work in section 432. IS IT EVEN WORTH GOING WITH THESE SEATS? Never been in the Verizon Center so let me know. Thanks.

These seats are obviously upper level, but they are also only two sections off center court. What row are you in? You can see decently well from these seats, especially in the lower rows. I'd say it's still worth going.

 

[Methodical Management]

Got tickets to a Heat game in December from work in section 432. IS IT EVEN WORTH GOING WITH THESE SEATS? Never been in the Verizon Center so let me know. Thanks.

These seats are obviously upper level, but they are also only two sections off center court. What row are you in? You can see decently well from these seats, especially in the lower rows. I'd say it's still worth going.

And honestly, the atmosphere in the 400 level during a big game is pretty good.  

I usually sit in the lower bowl and there it's 90% corporate.  You'll sit next to idiots on cell phones the entire time, or people who show up midway through the second quarter, don't even follow the game, and are there for no discernible reason. 

I've been in second row seats to watch Michael Jordan and I've been in 400 level seats practically up against the wall to see the Heat play, and there's more energy in the 400 level - hands down.  I'm not going to sit here and say I prefer nosebleed seats to floor seats, but I think you'll have a good time. 

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

Got tickets to a Heat game in December from work in section 432. IS IT EVEN WORTH GOING WITH THESE SEATS? Never been in the Verizon Center so let me know. Thanks.

I know this may sound cliche, but there really isn't a bad seat in the house at the Verizon Center.


I have sat just about at every level having worked in the Suites Department. From right on the court to Player's Club. I prefer a seat with a slightly elevated vantage point, now the 400's are up there but I have sat there many times and it is cool.



I'll share a story about when I sat there about 10 years ago to see Mike play against Paul Pierce and the Celtics.

There was this one fan/heckler from Boston who was the loudest fan I have ever heard who was just giving it to Mike and the fans around him all night......picture the biggest NT troll and multiply it by a million. He spewed out history of MJ and how he would travel city to city just to see him lose. The Wizards were winning the majority of this back and forth contest and were up by 2 or so at the end of the game. Celtics ball with some time on the clock left. This fan was screaming that everyone in DC would be in tears and that MJ was washed up.....and sure enough Paul Pierce drains a 3 with time expiring and the Celtics win. This arena was crushed and this one fan look like he just climaxed all over the upper level.

The outcome sucked but it was a memorable experience in the 400 level.


Another time folks Miami Heat fans brought brooms when they swept the Wizards in the 2nd round of the playoffs back in 2005.


In short.....go, never turn down tickets.