Washington Wizards 2015-2016 Season Thread - Let the firings begin!

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ExtRaOrDinaRy SwAg said:
Lol at the Gilbert Arenas banter, he helped ruin the franchise with that gun stuff and never led anyone himself so why accuse Wall of tainting Beal? Gil's Instagram jokester schtick has worn off for me. It's corny at this point
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The knee injury > gun stuff, though the gun stuff didn't help obviously. It was more so the injury and trading away two first round picks, including the #5 pick, for veterans (and one half of the gun stuff) that doomed the Big 3 era. The gun stuff only helped expedite the imminent transition to rebuilding. Gilbert simply was never going to be the old Gilbert they needed for a deep playoff run again.

Even I'll admit that the Instagram jokester stuff is getting old. It's like he's doing whatever possible to stay relevant at this point. 
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AgentZero said:
 
The knee injury > gun stuff, though the gun stuff didn't help obviously. It was more so the injury and trading away two first round picks, including the #5 pick, for veterans (and one half of the gun stuff) that doomed the Big 3 era. The gun stuff only helped expedite the imminent transition to rebuilding. Gilbert simply was never going to be the old Gilbert they needed for a deep playoff run again.

Even I'll admit that the Instagram jokester stuff is getting old. It's like he's doing whatever possible to stay relevant at this point. 
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Exactly the knee ruined everything. He was one of the top scorers in the league. Being healthy and playing basketball was the only thing that kept him focused I believe. 
 
don't believe this for one second, first off why on earth would you pay 120 million unless Gortat is for sure being moved? second Noah looked HORRID last season, he isn't worth a max no matter how high the cap gets. and third, Beal should be the one getting paid before any free agent
 
Won't go to another game until Ernie is fired if this happens. Tired of this BS.
 
I guess someone finally had to inform Ernie that all his precious cap space won't go very far when you have to sign TEN players at a time when free agents will be inking the most expensive contracts in league history.  That's why OKC and other teams lean so heavily on rookie scale contracts to help maintain the balance between talent and value needed to field a contending team at or near the salary cap.  

Unfortunately, our owner is still cheap, so... 

http://wizofawes.com/2016/06/24/was...eb-tarczewski-danuel-house-sheldon-mcclellan/

At this rate, we can look forward to open tryouts later this summer. 
 
ExtRaOrDinaRy SwAg said:
don't believe this for one second, first off why on earth would you pay 120 million unless Gortat is for sure being moved? second Noah looked HORRID last season, he isn't worth a max no matter how high the cap gets. and third, Beal should be the one getting paid before any free agent
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Yeah...I don't believe it at all.

Also...

J. Michael ‏@JMichaelCSN 2h2 hours ago

But if they were to max Noah, I might call that a panic move (not losing Nene part). Noah is 31 and on the back 9 of career #WizardsTalk
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J. Michael ‏@JMichaelCSN 2h2 hours ago

The danger w/having lots of cap space is if everybody else has it or if the FA pool at a position is thin, u'll spend. A lot #WizardsTalk
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J. Michael ‏@JMichaelCSN 2h2 hours ago

Nene's role/minutes have been decreasing for 2 yrs. The Wizards "panicked" over his departure? Theyve expected it #WizardsTalk
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J. Michael ‏@JMichaelCSN 3h3 hours ago

I had Noah as a Wizards target -- before his injury. I cant say for sure but I have doubts about maxing him #WizardsTalk @CSNWizards
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J. Michael ‏@JMichaelCSN 2h2 hours ago Virginia, USA

Beal declines #USABasketball invite to participate in #2016Olympics #WizardsTalk @CSNWizards
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*edit*

J. Michael ‏@JMichaelCSN 1m1 minute ago

The Wizards are NOT going to offer, nor have plans to, Joakim Noah a max deal, I can confirm. #WizardsTalk @CSNWizards
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*whew*
 
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Not even a meeting...

:smh:

Not even the courtesy of a meeting....

I don't put this on KD.

I put this on whoever *cough* EG *cough* is responsible for not making this team any better in the time when we should have been an appealing destination for Durant.
 
Assuming the reports of not even getting a meeting are true--and said reports are coming from multiple reliable NBA writers--it is a utterly devastating blow.

It would be one thing if he just resigned with OKC. But to give five other teams meetings and refuse to even listen to Ted and EG's pitch... that is incredible. What about all those sources saying the Wizards knew they had a good chance. What blows my mind most is that this team had a disappointing year, sure, but they have gone to game 6 in the second round and all of the key pieces are in their early-to-mid 20s. Boston has not been as far in the Playoffs. Miami has not either, with this group anyway, and D-Wade has maybe a couple decent years left and Bosh is a question mark. You throw KD out there with Wall, Beal, Morris, and Gortat with Otto as the 6th man and the Wiz are instantly in the ECF vs CLE, not even counting some ringchasers that may sign at a discount to play on that team. Granted, throw KD on almost any East Playoff team and they are probably in the ECF vs CLE, but given the hometown appeal and the youth of the Wiz, I really thought they'd have a leg up if he were to leave. The Clippers would have to get rid of Blake, CP, or Jordan to sign KD. And signing with Golden State or San Antonio would just be silly.

There is no coming back from this, either. Given the NBA salary cap situation, dozens of players will likely get maxed this offseason. Only one of them turns this team into a contender. Assuming Beal gets brought back and maxed, Al Horford or Bautum or Ryan Anderson or Harrison Barnes or Noah don't make this team much, if at all better, than 45ish wins and second round material. In other words, right where they've been. So there is no Plan B that isn't a crushing disappointment. A boogie trade is probably the best that can be hoped for now and Wall-Boogie isn't a real title threat.

Guess I'll keep waiting for the rest of my life to go to an NBA Finals game at the Booth. Thanks for the 38+% price hike on the season tickets over the last 15 months, Ted. Definitely seems worth it now.
 
RDFM said:
Assuming the reports of not even getting a meeting are true--and said reports are coming from multiple reliable NBA writers--it is a utterly devastating blow.

It would be one thing if he just resigned with OKC. But to give five other teams meetings and refuse to even listen to Ted and EG's pitch... that is incredible. What about all those sources saying the Wizards knew they had a good chance. What blows my mind most is that this team had a disappointing year, sure, but they have gone to game 6 in the second round and all of the key pieces are in their early-to-mid 20s. Boston has not been as far in the Playoffs. Miami has not either, with this group anyway, and D-Wade has maybe a couple decent years left and Bosh is a question mark. You throw KD out there with Wall, Beal, Morris, and Gortat with Otto as the 6th man and the Wiz are instantly in the ECF vs CLE, not even counting some ringchasers that may sign at a discount to play on that team. Granted, throw KD on almost any East Playoff team and they are probably in the ECF vs CLE, but given the hometown appeal and the youth of the Wiz, I really thought they'd have a leg up if he were to leave. The Clippers would have to get rid of Blake, CP, or Jordan to sign KD. And signing with Golden State or San Antonio would just be silly.

There is no coming back from this, either. Given the NBA salary cap situation, dozens of players will likely get maxed this offseason. Only one of them turns this team into a contender. Assuming Beal gets brought back and maxed, Al Horford or Bautum or Ryan Anderson or Harrison Barnes or Noah don't make this team much, if at all better, than 45ish wins and second round material. In other words, right where they've been. So there is no Plan B that isn't a crushing disappointment. A boogie trade is probably the best that can be hoped for now and Wall-Boogie isn't a real title threat.

Guess I'll keep waiting for the rest of my life to go to an NBA Finals game at the Booth. Thanks for the 38+% price hike on the season tickets over the last 15 months, Ted. Definitely seems worth it now.
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Boston and Miami have better front offices. Also, lets be real outside of Wall there isn't much talent here. I am not that high on Beal whatsoever good player but not great... I can't blame KD one bit
 
In a way, KD did us a favor.  He's trying to disabuse the Wizards organization of its delusions of grandeur.  

The Washington Wizards organization is not credible. 

That is why we have no shot.  

Look at the teams he's rumored to be meeting with:  San Antonio, Golden State, Boston, Miami.. these are organizations that have credibility.  They've proven that they're capable of building a team and they're never afraid to make whatever investments are necessary to stay ahead of the curve.

In KD's lifetime - and mine - the Wizards only have a track record of failure and mediocrity.   

The Wizards were reportedly told that KD's situation is different from LeBron's - and this was superficially interpreted to mean that KD didn't have a strong desire to play in his hometown.  I think the key distinction is that LeBron is a player who wants the keys to the organization.  He wants to pick the coach.  He wants to bring in his cronies.  He wants to play GM.  He wants to take over.

That is the ego the Wizards prepared for.  We have FIVE players under contract.  The "plan" was to rush at KD like a crazed Tinder match and say, "I LOVE YOU!!! LET'S GET MARRIED!  I ALREADY SOLD ALL MY FURNITURE SO YOU CAN CHOOSE THE STYLE OF DECOR YOU WANT!  I QUIT MY JOB SO WE CAN SPEND ALL OUR TIME TOGETHER!!!  IT'S GONNA PERFECT!!!!!  THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT, RIGHT?!!? WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME!!?!?!??!?!" 

Let's be honest:  this is the meeting KD has wisely chosen not to take:



"Whatever kind of team you like" is not the answer KD is looking for.  

He wants an organization that has an identity and a proven record.  

No player on the Boston Celtics is more talented than John Wall.  You could debate if Isiah Thomas is even better than Bradley Beal.  Most GMs would take Beal.  

The Celtics have a championship pedigree, a great young coach, and a well defined style of play.   

The Miami Heat have an aging core.  They'd likely have to let some key pieces - like Whiteside - go in order to sign KD.  The Miami Heat have a championship pedigree, a proven coach, and Pat Riley.  They have credibility. 

Even Phil Jackson has given the miserable Knicks organization some credibility.  (That, and Team USA has become a basketball fraternity - and Wall's inability to land a spot is now costing him in recruiting opportunities.)

The Wizards organization has done nothing but prove its ineptitude year after year.  Their current success can be primarily attributed to the behavior of ping pong balls, not the front office.  

For the record: I don't blame the Wizards for trying to swing for the fences, but they killed any chance they might have had when they prioritized financial considerations over WINNING.  KD would not be walking into a team that is "one player away."  

He'd be walking into a team that was about ten players, a GM, an owner, a coach, a proven scouting team, and a training staff away.  You wouldn't take that meeting, either.

This has to be a mandate for change.  The Wizards' plan for the last SEVERAL SEASONS has been to sign Kevin Durant in the summer of 2016.  He won't even let them make a pitch.  

I appreciate that this didn't come down to a Gilbert Arenas coin flip, that we weren't the runner-up or even a finalist.  There's no "moral victory" or point of encouragement to be found here.  

This was complete, abject failure - and that's what the Wizards truly are.  It's high time they realized it.  
 
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Totally agree that it is clear he is meeting only with franchises that he trusts and that have pedigree. That much is clear. Also completely agree that this entire KD2DC endeavor was an abject failure, and that the Wizards are a joke.

Having said that:

1) I honestly don't think Ted will see it as such. Nothing will change. He'll just shrug it off as KD not wanting to worry about his friends asking for tickets and move on as long as schmucks like me give him money (which I do for love of the NBA game, not because I love the Wizards management), and

2) Inane franchise aside, throw KD on the Wiz after you reup Beal and you've got a Wall/Beal/Durant/Morris/Gortat starting lineup with Otto off the bench. You would probably get a couple of guys to sign on the cheap with Durant here to fill out the lineup with some other reasonably priced guys. The team would instantly be the 2nd best team in the East and could challenge CLE to go to the Finals. No amount of incompetency in the front office could stop that. I honestly think basketball-wise this is his best landing spot in the East, especially when you factor age in.

J. Michael is reporting Ryan Anderson is the top target now. I figured it would be him or Horford. I wouldn't have minded Anderson at the trade deadline last year, but thought Morris was better because he was locked up and Anderson would cost $20M a year starting this summer. I don't even know how Anderson fits in to whatever is in Ernie's head given Gortat and Morris are under contract. And he certainly isn't a true impact player.

The only thing I am confident of is that the team won't be much fun to watch yet again this year and that the players will be able to keep complaining about the crowd only getting hyped up when Curry or LeBron is in town, because that's happening again.
 
This is the part that's killing me and what will ultimately lead John Wall to bolt (for good reason) when his contract is up....our top FA target is Ryan Anderson. RYAN ANDERSON.

C'mon now.

This is one of the worst run franchises in all of sports. It's infuriating.

If this KD shun isn't a slap in the face, then I dunno what to tell ya....but yeah, let's keep firing people like the head athletic trainer.
 
JJs07 said:
This is the part that's killing me and what will ultimately lead John Wall to bolt (for good reason) when his contract is up....our top FA target is Ryan Anderson. RYAN ANDERSON.

C'mon now.

This is one of the worst run franchises in all of sports. It's infuriating.

If this KD shun isn't a slap in the face, then I dunno what to tell ya....but yeah, let's keep firing people like the head athletic trainer.
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Exactly.  We should've fired Ernie before the season ended, the way Brooklyn cleaned house.  

Honestly, I'd STILL fire him - even though we don't have time to bring in a replacement before the start of free agency.  I'd rather waste another year with guys on one year deals (aka what we did THIS season) than allow Ernie to sign the likes of RYAN ANDERSON to max four year contracts.

Can you imagine team morale when RYAN ANDERSON is making $17 million per season?  That's the Jim MacIlvaine special.  

This guy hasn't moved the needle for any NBA team he's been on, and he's the Wizards' top choice?  You're going to sign TWO players who've never made an All Star team to MAX contracts?!

Wall will leave in the summer of 2019 - if he doesn't demand a trade first - and not one of us will blame him for it. 
RDFM said:
Totally agree that it is clear he is meeting only with franchises that he trusts and that have pedigree. That much is clear. Also completely agree that this entire KD2DC endeavor was an abject failure, and that the Wizards are a joke.

Having said that:

1) I honestly don't think Ted will see it as such. Nothing will change. He'll just shrug it off as KD not wanting to worry about his friends asking for tickets and move on as long as schmucks like me give him money (which I do for love of the NBA game, not because I love the Wizards management), and

2) Inane franchise aside, throw KD on the Wiz after you reup Beal and you've got a Wall/Beal/Durant/Morris/Gortat starting lineup with Otto off the bench. You would probably get a couple of guys to sign on the cheap with Durant here to fill out the lineup with some other reasonably priced guys. The team would instantly be the 2nd best team in the East and could challenge CLE to go to the Finals. No amount of incompetency in the front office could stop that. I honestly think basketball-wise this is his best landing spot in the East, especially when you factor age in.

J. Michael is reporting Ryan Anderson is the top target now. I figured it would be him or Horford. I wouldn't have minded Anderson at the trade deadline last year, but thought Morris was better because he was locked up and Anderson would cost $20M a year starting this summer. I don't even know how Anderson fits in to whatever is in Ernie's head given Gortat and Morris are under contract. And he certainly isn't a true impact player.

The only thing I am confident of is that the team won't be much fun to watch yet again this year and that the players will be able to keep complaining about the crowd only getting hyped up when Curry or LeBron is in town, because that's happening again.
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I was hopeful when Ted took over.  I thought perhaps that was the end of penny pinching in Washington.  Was I ever wrong... 

For the same reason that this team will never improve with Ernie choosing players, this team will never truly improve with Ted choosing front office hires.  He would need to bring in someone else to run the entire business, but I have no faith in his ability to recruit - or his willingness to pay - such a person.  There will be no Pat Riley-equivalent in Washington while Ted is the owner.  

Donald Sterling was, by all accounts, an awful owner and an awful human being.  His team was more successful in his tenure than the Wizards have been under Ted's ownership.  It amazes me that, around the league, the Wizards aren't viewed as the laughingstock the way the Clippers were in the Sterling era or the Mavericks once were.  

We are on par with the current Sacramento Kings as the most hopelessly mismanaged franchise in the entire league.  Brooklyn is at least cleaning house and trying to root out the dysfunction.  The Wizards are just delusional.  

The biggest POSSIBLE win this offseason would be for Ted to snap out of "loser denial."  I agree that's unlikely.

While I also agree that the Wizards with KD would present a more formidable starting lineup than, say, Boston with KD,  Wall, Beal, Durant, Morris, and Gortat is not a better lineup than Westbrook, Oladipo, Durant, Kanter, and Adams.  

By all accounts, KD does not want to sign a short term deal - or go through this process again.  He wants to choose where he will likely spend the duration of his remaining prime years.  OKC has rebuilt that roster multiple times to remain in contention despite losing former key pieces like Green, Ibaka, Harden, and Jackson. 

The Spurs have won over 50 games 17 straight times.  The Wizards haven't won 50 games in KD's entire life.  (Or mine.)

Danny Ainge is overrated as a GM, but in a weak Eastern Conference you still look at what Boston and Miami have done and you can feel far more confident in their ability to rebuild on the fly than you can with Washington.  The Wizards are not a sophisticated franchise.  They're the rubes other franchises exploit to get better (like Phoenix.)  They're schedule fodder.  

If you're looking LONG TERM, you can't have any faith in the Wizards' ability to consistently surround a franchise player with talent the way that, say, Miami has with Wade, the Spurs have with their core, or the Thunder have for KD and Russ.  

Had the Wizards reached the ECF this year, you have to think KD would at least take the meeting.  You could then say "if Wall hadn't broken his hand, we would've beaten Atlanta and advanced the previous year, too.  This team is for real and the Cavs are capped out.  We're the best option in the weak Eastern conference."  We all sat here and said Randy needed to go, but the Wizards decided they wanted to stay the course, bring in a bunch of cheap mercs, and count on location to sway KD.  

When half the conference subsequently leapfrogged Washington in the standings, that really said it all.  

This is not a management or ownership group a franchise player (or fan) can trust. 
 
There is no doubt the Thunder's starting lineup is better than the Wizards', especially after the trade last week. I think we would be his best move in the East from a championship-chance stance. So, aside from staying in OKC, I really thought that the Wiz were the best landing spot. Obviously a few other teams out west would be way better with KD than the Wiz would be, but in my opinion KD joining Golden State or San Antonio would be even weaker than LeBron leaving Cleveland to build a superteam in 2010.

I, too, had very high hopes for Ted. I really thought he'd be a great owner, and the sad facts are he has been anything but that. Nearly everything he does is with an eye (or both) on his bottom line.

Still so depressing. Oh well. It will be interesting to see what happens around the league.
 
Another thing...and I just don't get it. The media that covers the team treats the FO with kid gloves. Has ANYONE, in Grunfeld's tenure (in the DC media), actually taken him to task for the job he's done? Most, if not all, of the vitriol comes from the fans. Who I honestly think are collectively more competent in potentially running a franchise.

I'm VERY nervous about tomorrow... :smh:

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@dcsportsbog - "I'm going into my seventh year already....If I have a good team here, in a great place, this is where I want to be.”

@dcsportsbog - More Wall: "To win in this new-era NBA, to try to have good pieces come, you might have to overpay people."

@dcsportsbog - Wall on the Wiz: "The organization’s got to be willing to step up to the plate and get what needs to be done, done."
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JJs07 said:
Another thing...and I just don't get it. The media that covers the team treats the FO with kid gloves. Has ANYONE, in Grunfeld's tenure (in the DC media), actually taken him to task for the job he's done? Most, if not all, of the vitriol comes from the fans. Who I honestly think are collectively more competent in potentially running a franchise.

I'm VERY nervous about tomorrow...
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I would chalk that up to low expectations.  Who, outside of Wizards fans, expects the Wizards to ever be anything more than mediocre at this point?  The Wizards are poorly managed?  Yes, and water is wet.  That's not a clickable headline in what passes for today's sports media.

Barkley often mentioned the Wizards, along with the Rockets and Bucks, when listing his most disappointing teams this season, but it seems most felt that the Wizards overachieved in reaching the second round and were not, in fact, outpacing the rate of improvement among their competitors in the East.  

Obviously I, as a Wizards fan, I agree with you completely about Ernie's tenure.  I can't think of a GM in Sports who's had this kind of track record for THIS long.  

If you're in charge of the front office, all the blame that gets distributed among the coaches and players ultimately reflects back on the decisions you've made.  Randy Wittman's "pace and space" was a disaster?  Who hired Randy Wittman?  The one year vets you brought in to buy time didn't mesh with the core?  Whose fault is that?  KD isn't taking your calls?  Maybe your team is awful.  Beal struggled with injuries didn't take that next step?  Well, maybe you shouldn't be retaining the player development coach and the majority of the training staff - even after firing Wittman and Eric Waters.  

Right now, the cap situation is what's frustrating me the most.  You KNOW it's going to be misspent with Ernie, but the fact that we have TEN spots to fill in this market is inexcusable. 

It's so short-sighted.  They wanted to apply the Miami model to building a super team, and ignored the following significant details:

1) Miami had credibility. (Recent championship, Pat Riley, proven organization.) 

2) They benefited from some degree of collusion, which gave them a reasonable expectation of success.

3) They did not set ALL of their contracts to expire during a summer with a MASSIVE cap spike.

HOW does it give you a competitive advantage to have only FIVE players under contract at pre-spike prices?

You'd much rather have $20 million in cap space this summer with two roster spots to fill than $50 million in cap space this summer with TEN spots to fill.  Teams like the Spurs that were built intelligently now have the opportunity to bring in ANOTHER impact player.  The WARRIORS have a legit chance to bring in KD thanks to the cap spike - and the fact that they actually have conveyable assets.  

If we max out Beal and some medicore, third tier player like Ryan Anderson, what's left for the rest of the roster?  It's gonna be Wall, Beal, Porter, Morris/Anderson, Gortat, Oubre, and the Reno Bighorns.  How is that a step forward?  

I agree with @RDFM.  If Ernie continues to do Ernie things, this is a 45 win team next year - tops. 
 
5 year $130 for beal is the talk?

Is he and otto really our only hope? Like I think we know what we have in Wall at this point. Can Beal be better? Can Otto be better? I only am grasping for straws because its looking like we are doomed to fail again next year. And going into a season knowing you literally stand a 0% chance of doing anything important really sucks (but what else is new)
 
Jking0821 said:
5 year $130 for beal is the talk?

Is he and otto really our only hope? Like I think we know what we have in Wall at this point. Can Beal be better? Can Otto be better? I only am grasping for straws because its looking like we are doomed to fail again next year. And going into a season knowing you literally stand a 0% chance of doing anything important really sucks (but what else is new)
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I mean it's about as clear as day the Wizards are not a free agent destination. Switch coaches all you want word is out about the management. All we'll get are third tier bums just looking for a check. We have no choice but to max out Beal just to save face, can he get better? Of course, since there's nowhere to go but up. But is it realistic? Idk, his body hasn't shown me yet that it can be relied upon

We'll be stuck in that mediocre purgatory for the foreseeable future until Lebron retires. Just gotta accept it at this point
 
Looks like the Wizards and Boston have emerged as the frontrunners for Al Horford.

I'm hoping we can get him
 
Obviously Horford is a four-time All-Star, but spending that exact same max money on him instead of KD is just such a huge bummer. It is just a lot to commit to a 30-year old who averaged 15 and 7 each of the last two years IMO. At this point, it may be the best option, but I'm not all in on it. Part of my would sign second-tier guys to get to the minimum spend floor and then try again next summer, but I guess many would argue a strategy like that is what got us in this spot to begin with. I think adding Horford certainly would be a boost but, depending on how Ernie fills the roster out, I don't think it is any sort of ECF guarantee or anything and certainly not a threat to contend.

If it were to happen, I wonder if Brooks would start Horford at the 4 and bring Kieff off the bench or send Gortat to the bench and start Horford at the 5?
 
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