What happened to the White-Americans NBA players?

[casperjr]

baseball = white game

basketball = black game

and its a simple reason for that

resources

it takes alot more resources to get a game of baseball going then basketball

throw it the fact that blacks are just better build for the game of basket ball

and it shows at the pro level for both sports

 

[kidoopz]

Oh they making a comeback ..

 

[al3xis]

What is the difference between McNamara and Duhon? What is the difference between Alexander and Wright? Pittsnogle and Boone?
c'mon now..

Josh Boone has size and can defend and block shots more than Pittsnogle could ever dream of. He would be a walking liability on the court.

Duhon...too much to type.

Joe Alexander is just not a good basketball player, never was.

If you are 7 foot and are fluid (hilton armstrong) you will always have a roster spot....a guy like Curtis Borchardt won't.

I mean can't we ask why Mark Madsen or Ryan Bowen stuck as long as they did? It's not an exact science but usually they offer specific skills(shooting) or really can defend..


Mike gansey

If you are a guard that is under 6'4, and nonathletic like McNamara, Gansey or McAlarney...you better have the ball on a string, and the ability to run ateam. Duhon can, those guys can't.


...

Economic resources is hardly a valid reason....some of you guys are making it out to be every black kid that picked up a basketball is from the projects..

 

[Sonny Corinthos]

Originally Posted by SHUGES



What is the difference between McNamara and Duhon?

Duhon isn't that good , but he can help a team if he's not scoring points . GMac not so much

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Why are there less white American players in the league?

This is a difficult question to answer filled with many uncomfortable social and racial dynamics,, the first thought is that black people have an inherentadvantage athletically against there white counter part, while this certainly is a factor I reject the notion that it is the main culprit. By that logicshouldn't the amount of white players stay constant, why has it dropped over the years and why is it that the white European player has risen to such greatprominence? Shouldn't they have the same athletic limitations impeding there ability to compete? I think we can for the most agree that the average blackathlete has some advantage over his white counterpart athletically, but again this should be constant, why is it that in the 1980's white players were ableto overcome there athletic disadvantage, but current day players cannot> White Europeans over come this advantage with increasing regularity why has thisability escaped the white American.

I submit to you that it is not nature but nurture, development is the key. I believe that the way we develop playershas fundamentally changed, as basketball has grown more complex naturally fragmentation and specialization has occurred. If a player is a certain height orweight we teach them a certain skill set. shooting guards, centers and all positions are bread to do specific things, all things that generally (aside fromshooting) give advantage to players of greater athletic merit, consequently, black players. Shot blockers, slashers, re bounders, shooters ect, ect these arewhat teams are composed of now. So currently if there is a 6'10 white kid he is taught to do actions specific to a player of that size and position,actions that a player with greater athletic ability would excel to a greater level then he would be able to achieve. Now if you look at the way Europeansdevelop there players, everyone no matter the size is taught to do everything, dribble, pass, shoot, skills, that regardless of your athletic ability withpractice there is no limit to your development. That is why you get player like, Marco Belineli or Carlos Delfino can run the point or we have 6'11 powerforwards with 3 point range and guard skills. Specialization is the culprit for the demise of the great white Americanplayer.


Kevin Love is I think an excellent case that proves my thesis, as a child he was taught all skills that only smaller players would learn in the Americansystem, he often mentioned (you can hear this on a podcast wilth Bill Simmons) how his father would drill him with passing drills, and how often he practicedhis shooting and 3 point range. If you noticed the good white players all share a wide breath of skills and ability uncommon to there position and size fromTroy Murphy to Mike Dunleavy. If an age of great white players is to return then the fundamentals of American basketball development must change as well.

 

[shuges]

I hate when ppl use the "resources" excuse.

Yes, it's true that you can play a game of 1-on-1 and develop your dribble and shooting skills. But your basic fundamentals (passing, defense, boxing out)would never get developed. Even in a 3-on-3 game, it's not quite the same b/c of the spacing.

In this day and age, most high schools have sufficient resources if a kid is interested in any of the major US sports. Track, football, baseball, basketball...So if you simply go to school, you will have the resources to learn and hone your craft.

And how are blacks "better built" for b-ball than baseball?

------------------------------------

And allen, the point I was trying to make is that if bums like Boone can stick in the L, why can't "bums" like Pittsnogle stick? Blair is gettinghis shot with the Spurs. And I can almost guarantee that a similar player (Harangody) will NOT get the same chance next year in the L.

 

[al3xis]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Why are there less white American players in the league?

This is a difficult question to answer filled with many uncomfortable social and racial dynamics,, the first thought is that black people have an inherent advantage athletically against there white counter part, while this certainly is a factor I reject the notion that it is the main culprit. By that logic shouldn't the amount of white players stay constant, why has it dropped over the years and why is it that the white European player has risen to such great prominence? Shouldn't they have the same athletic limitations impeding there ability to compete? I think we can for the most agree that the average black athlete has some advantage over his white counterpart athletically, but again this should be constant, why is it that in the 1980's white players were able to overcome there athletic disadvantage, but current day players cannot> White Europeans over come this advantage with increasing regularity why has this ability escaped the white American.

I submit to you that it is not nature but nurture, development is the key. I believe that the way we develop players has fundamentally changed, as basketball has grown more complex naturally fragmentation and specialization has occurred. If a player is a certain height or weight we teach them a certain skill set. shooting guards, centers and all positions are bread to do specific things, all things that generally (aside from shooting) give advantage to players of greater athletic merit, consequently, black players. Shot blockers, slashers, re bounders, shooters ect, ect these are what teams are composed of now. So currently if there is a 6'10 white kid he is taught to do actions specific to a player of that size and position, actions that a player with greater athletic ability would excel to a greater level then he would be able to achieve. Now if you look at the way Europeans develop there players, everyone no matter the size is taught to do everything, dribble, pass, shoot, skills, that regardless of your athletic ability with practice there is no limit to your development. That is why you get player like, Marco Belineli or Carlos Delfino can run the point or we have 6'11 power forwards with 3 point range and guard skills. Specialization is the culprit for the demise of the great white American player.


Kevin Love is I think an excellent case that proves my thesis, as a child he was taught all skills that only smaller players would learn in the American system, he often mentioned (you can hear this on a podcast wilth Bill Simmons) how his father would drill him with passing drills, and how often he practiced his shooting and 3 point range. If you noticed the good white players all share a wide breath of skills and ability uncommon to there position and size from Troy Murphy to Mike Dunleavy. If an age of great white players is to return then the fundamentals of American basketball development must change as well.

I see this. Good points.

It's funny the best local AAU team here develops players better than anyone around, and they have interchangeable parts and kids are skilled.

to add to it, the two best kids the past 2 years, erick murphy (florida), nate lubick (g'town) are both white.

Blair is getting his shot with the Spurs. And I can almost guarantee that a similar player (Harangody) will NOT get the same chance next year in the L.
DeJuan Blair has a specific skill he excels at, does Harangody?

why is Steve Blake running a team and Sean Singletary can't get a sniff? their talent is the same, but Blake is a true Pg.

 

[quik1987]

 

[quik1987]

double

 

[cicero avenue dopeman]

Luke Jackson?

 

[Sonny Corinthos]

I hope B.J. Mullens makes something of himself

 

[jt solemates lm]

Jon Scheyer will be in the NBA next year

 

[rook]

Blair is getting his shot with the Spurs. And I can almost guarantee that a similar player (Harangody) will NOT get the same chance next year in the L.
DeJuan Blair has a specific skill he excels at, does Harangody?

why is Steve Blake running a team and Sean Singletary can't get a sniff? their talent is the same, but Blake is a true Pg.


Find me facts that backs that up? Cuz looking over their stats & overall Athleticism...I see nothing different other than skin color homie .

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

DeJuan Blair has a specific skill he excels at, does Harangody?

why is Steve Blake running a team and Sean Singletary can't get a sniff? their talent is the same, but Blake is a true Pg.

Psshhhh... We might have to take this to the CBB thread. Cuz I really don't see the HUGE difference between Blair and Gody (as far as collegecareers).

All I'm saying is that the same mentality exhibited in this thread is exactly why a lot of white players don't make it.

And that's b/c people simply don't think they are capable of making an impact.GM's, fans, and the general public just won't give them a real chance.

You can't tell me that guys like Pittsnogle and McNamara didn't want it as much as the next man. These guys went overseas and to the D-League.

Meanwhile, guys like Bender get scooped up after 3+ years of not even playing in the L.

 

[brownin187]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Why are there less white American players in the league?

This is a difficult question to answer filled with many uncomfortable social and racial dynamics,, the first thought is that black people have an inherent advantage athletically against there white counter part, while this certainly is a factor I reject the notion that it is the main culprit. By that logic shouldn't the amount of white players stay constant, why has it dropped over the years and why is it that the white European player has risen to such great prominence? Shouldn't they have the same athletic limitations impeding there ability to compete? I think we can for the most agree that the average black athlete has some advantage over his white counterpart athletically, but again this should be constant, why is it that in the 1980's white players were able to overcome there athletic disadvantage, but current day players cannot> White Europeans over come this advantage with increasing regularity why has this ability escaped the white American.

I submit to you that it is not nature but nurture, development is the key. I believe that the way we develop players has fundamentally changed, as basketball has grown more complex naturally fragmentation and specialization has occurred. If a player is a certain height or weight we teach them a certain skill set. shooting guards, centers and all positions are bread to do specific things, all things that generally (aside from shooting) give advantage to players of greater athletic merit, consequently, black players. Shot blockers, slashers, re bounders, shooters ect, ect these are what teams are composed of now. So currently if there is a 6'10 white kid he is taught to do actions specific to a player of that size and position, actions that a player with greater athletic ability would excel to a greater level then he would be able to achieve. Now if you look at the way Europeans develop there players, everyone no matter the size is taught to do everything, dribble, pass, shoot, skills, that regardless of your athletic ability with practice there is no limit to your development. That is why you get player like, Marco Belineli or Carlos Delfino can run the point or we have 6'11 power forwards with 3 point range and guard skills. Specialization is the culprit for the demise of the great white American player.


Kevin Love is I think an excellent case that proves my thesis, as a child he was taught all skills that only smaller players would learn in the American system, he often mentioned (you can hear this on a podcast wilth Bill Simmons) how his father would drill him with passing drills, and how often he practiced his shooting and 3 point range. If you noticed the good white players all share a wide breath of skills and ability uncommon to there position and size from Troy Murphy to Mike Dunleavy. If an age of great white players is to return then the fundamentals of American basketball development must change as well.

spot on...and of course it took a canadian to do it...you white americans you..

 

[Sonny Corinthos]

Originally Posted by SHUGES

McNamara didn't want it as much as the next man. These guys went overseas and to the D-League.

Was he trying to be the next Eddie House or was he working on mastering the point guard position ?

 

[al3xis]

Find me facts that backs that up? Cuz looking over their stats & overall Athleticism...I see nothing different other than skin color homie .

Really? DeJuan Blair had a HISTORIC year rebounding the basketball as a sophomore.

Athletically, they're no different but Harangody is a turn style on defense.

Find me an NBA team that will let Beebop shoot 20 times again, he is a volume shooter as a big man.

Blair knows what ROLE to fill, cause he already showed it in college, Harangody..we have no idea.

And that's b/c people simply don't think they are capable of making an impact. GM's, fans, and the general public just won't give them a real chance.
I think Kyle Singler is capable, I don't think Kevin Pittsnoggle is.

why is Salim stoudamire not with a team and JJ Redick is? JJ is a better basketball player..

Has 0 to do with what skin color people are.

 

[carlos tevez]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Why are there less white American players in the league?

This is a difficult question to answer filled with many uncomfortable social and racial dynamics,, the first thought is that black people have an inherent advantage athletically against there white counter part, while this certainly is a factor I reject the notion that it is the main culprit. By that logic shouldn't the amount of white players stay constant, why has it dropped over the years and why is it that the white European player has risen to such great prominence? Shouldn't they have the same athletic limitations impeding there ability to compete? I think we can for the most agree that the average black athlete has some advantage over his white counterpart athletically, but again this should be constant, why is it that in the 1980's white players were able to overcome there athletic disadvantage, but current day players cannot> White Europeans over come this advantage with increasing regularity why has this ability escaped the white American.

I submit to you that it is not nature but nurture, development is the key. I believe that the way we develop players has fundamentally changed, as basketball has grown more complex naturally fragmentation and specialization has occurred. If a player is a certain height or weight we teach them a certain skill set. shooting guards, centers and all positions are bread to do specific things, all things that generally (aside from shooting) give advantage to players of greater athletic merit, consequently, black players. Shot blockers, slashers, re bounders, shooters ect, ect these are what teams are composed of now. So currently if there is a 6'10 white kid he is taught to do actions specific to a player of that size and position, actions that a player with greater athletic ability would excel to a greater level then he would be able to achieve. Now if you look at the way Europeans develop there players, everyone no matter the size is taught to do everything, dribble, pass, shoot, skills, that regardless of your athletic ability with practice there is no limit to your development. That is why you get player like, Marco Belineli or Carlos Delfino can run the point or we have 6'11 power forwards with 3 point range and guard skills. Specialization is the culprit for the demise of the great white American player.


Kevin Love is I think an excellent case that proves my thesis, as a child he was taught all skills that only smaller players would learn in the American system, he often mentioned (you can hear this on a podcast wilth Bill Simmons) how his father would drill him with passing drills, and how often he practiced his shooting and 3 point range. If you noticed the good white players all share a wide breath of skills and ability uncommon to there position and size from Troy Murphy to Mike Dunleavy. If an age of great white players is to return then the fundamentals of American basketball development must change as well.

You do a good job of explaining why players of certain sizes and athletic ability are able to thrive in some aspects of the game while beinglimited in other aspects. However, you dont explain why there are so few white-American players in the NBA today. If your theory was correct then it'dapply to black players too since they'd all be forced into the same "mold" based on their height and weight, which would limit their skills atthe NBA level.

Personally, I'm leaning more towards the nature side.

I think it comes down to athleticism. Black players are generally more athletic than white players. How often do you see white players the same size as guyslike Dwight Howard, Shaq (in the mid-90s), LeBron, etc. who are as equally athletic as those guys? For the most part, black athletes are faster and strongerand have better endurance. You look at a lot of sports (basketball, football, boxing, track and field) and you notice that the most dominant athletes in thesesports are black for a reason (superior physical qualities).

In sports such as soccer, baseball, etc., where athleticism are not as important as in other sports, you see a more diverse mix of star players. Even in sportssuch as soccer that do not require much athleticism, you see that black players are suited for certain positions due to their physical advantages. For example,many of the best central defensive midfielders in soccer are of African origin. This is a position that requires a ton of endurance since you are expected tocover most of the pitch and requires a ton of strength since you are fighting for the ball in the middle of the pitch the entire match.

Basketball is the same thing except that you pretty much need to be athletic at all 5 positions to succeed in the NBA today. You can have some 3pt specialists,etc. but teams are looking for the fastest and strongest guys who can jump outta the building. You could say that being athletic doesn't make you a bettershooter but my response is that being athletic makes it much easier for players to create easy shots for themselves (i.e. dunks, lay-ups, etc.).

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

Has 0 to do with what skin color people are.

Come on allen. Even you don't believe that. (At least I hope you don't).

JJ, Darko, and Adam have stuck around b/c they were highly touted picks.

Salim, not so much.

GMs will almost always give a high draft pick multiple chances. Word to Kwame Brown.

I can't believe you think skin color has zero to do with why white players don't get as much of a shot as black players.

Carlos Tevez wrote:In sports such as soccer, baseball, etc., where athleticism are not as important as in other sports, you see a more diverse mix of star players.

No offense CT, but FAIL.

 

[statis22]

IMO the emergence of big time AAU basketball.

 

[kiddin like jason]

Wait, you think white players get blackballed because of their race?

Because the large majority of white general managers in the NBA decide they couldn't possibly have white players on their team, right?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Why are there less white American players in the league?

This is a difficult question to answer filled with many uncomfortable social and racial dynamics,, the first thought is that black people have an inherent advantage athletically against there white counter part, while this certainly is a factor I reject the notion that it is the main culprit. By that logic shouldn't the amount of white players stay constant, why has it dropped over the years and why is it that the white European player has risen to such great prominence? Shouldn't they have the same athletic limitations impeding there ability to compete? I think we can for the most agree that the average black athlete has some advantage over his white counterpart athletically, but again this should be constant, why is it that in the 1980's white players were able to overcome there athletic disadvantage, but current day players cannot> White Europeans over come this advantage with increasing regularity why has this ability escaped the white American.

I submit to you that it is not nature but nurture, development is the key. I believe that the way we develop players has fundamentally changed, as basketball has grown more complex naturally fragmentation and specialization has occurred. If a player is a certain height or weight we teach them a certain skill set. shooting guards, centers and all positions are bread to do specific things, all things that generally (aside from shooting) give advantage to players of greater athletic merit, consequently, black players. Shot blockers, slashers, re bounders, shooters ect, ect these are what teams are composed of now. So currently if there is a 6'10 white kid he is taught to do actions specific to a player of that size and position, actions that a player with greater athletic ability would excel to a greater level then he would be able to achieve. Now if you look at the way Europeans develop there players, everyone no matter the size is taught to do everything, dribble, pass, shoot, skills, that regardless of your athletic ability with practice there is no limit to your development. That is why you get player like, Marco Belineli or Carlos Delfino can run the point or we have 6'11 power forwards with 3 point range and guard skills. Specialization is the culprit for the demise of the great white American player.


Kevin Love is I think an excellent case that proves my thesis, as a child he was taught all skills that only smaller players would learn in the American system, he often mentioned (you can hear this on a podcast wilth Bill Simmons) how his father would drill him with passing drills, and how often he practiced his shooting and 3 point range. If you noticed the good white players all share a wide breath of skills and ability uncommon to there position and size from Troy Murphy to Mike Dunleavy. If an age of great white players is to return then the fundamentals of American basketball development must change as well.

You do a good job of explaining why players of certain sizes and athletic ability are able to thrive in some aspects of the game while being limited in other aspects. However, you dont explain why there are so few white-American players in the NBA today. If your theory was correct then it'd apply to black players too since they'd all be forced into the same "mold" based on their height and weight, which would limit their skills at the NBA level.

Personally, I'm leaning more towards the nature side.

I think it comes down to athleticism. Black players are generally more athletic than white players. How often do you see white players the same size as guys like Dwight Howard, Shaq (in the mid-90s), LeBron, etc. who are as equally athletic as those guys? For the most part, black athletes are faster and stronger and have better endurance. You look at a lot of sports (basketball, football, boxing, track and field) and you notice that the most dominant athletes in these sports are black for a reason (superior physical qualities).

In sports such as soccer, baseball, etc., where athleticism are not as important as in other sports, you see a more diverse mix of star players. Even in sports such as soccer that do not require much athleticism, you see that black players are suited for certain positions due to their physical advantages. For example, many of the best central defensive midfielders in soccer are of African origin. This is a position that requires a ton of endurance since you are expected to cover most of the pitch and requires a ton of strength since you are fighting for the ball in the middle of the pitch the entire match.

Basketball is the same thing except that you pretty much need to be athletic at all 5 positions to succeed in the NBA today. You can have some 3pt specialists, etc. but teams are looking for the fastest and strongest guys who can jump outta the building. You could say that being athletic doesn't make you a better shooter but my response is that being athletic makes it much easier for players to create easy shots for themselves (i.e. dunks, lay-ups, etc.).

I'm saying specialization HELPS those with greater athletic ability. ie black people.

You're right there will always be more black players than white but I'm saying there is less today then there was in the let's say the 1980's,and I think the change is the specialization of athletes. Ifeuropeans can overcome athletic deficiencies than white Americans should be able as well.



also people shouldn't underestimate the pigeon holing and stereotyping white players go through, just look at NT and the ignorance displayed tot hose ofthe lighter completion. Kevin Love not being selected to the all rookie team is travesty on most every level and I think him being plays some part in thatsubconsciously.

 

[iknowrap]

Originally Posted by DaNiKeRhiNo

A lot of white people growing up play for fun. Black people seem to be more passionate about it. And if you're more passionate about something, you tend to try harder. So the point I'm trying to make is, in most cases, for us, it's a lifestyle (part of our culture), for white people, it's just a game (sport).

yep...white kids growin up now and for the last 10 years prolly have had the attitude that "imma play this game as long as i can for fun but I know damnwell i wont make it to the leauge...but getting this full ride bball scholarship will sure help me get a degree and open up some doors..."

so yeah white players use bball as a vehicle...black players use it as a vehicle too but the greats never hop out the car till their in the leauge

 

[frankie valentino]

I want to see more initiatives to reach out into middle class suburban communities to teach the game of basketball to young white kids. Lord knows it'sprobably the only thing they'll succeed at in life.

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

Wait, you think white players get blackballed because of their race?

Because the large majority of white general managers in the NBA decide they couldn't possibly have white players on their team, right?

Who said that?

I've said that the general perception from fans, GMs, coaches, etc is that white players are not as good as black players.

(Look up quotes from Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Derek Fisher....)

It's there whether you guys want to admit it or not.