Zeitgeist The Movie. Discuss?

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Joined Jul 31, 2006
I saw it, I enjoyed it. I think the movie was created so people can OPEN THEIRMINDS (amongst other things)

BTW: put on your flame suit

"They must find it difficult...Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than the truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey
 
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Joined Jul 27, 2007
i really thought the 9/11 section was interesting and it all made sense to me..

however, the religion segment was extremely biased

good documentary regardless
 
5,491
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Joined Jul 24, 2007
Eh. Some is correct , a lot is not.
It's not as simplistic as they make it seem to be.

It doesn't really do much good.


Study history. It is rife with conspiracies. All a conspiracy is that like minded individuals come together to accomplish a goal. There's nothing nefariousabout that in and of itself.
The creation of the US Republic was a conspiracy.
The founding fathers didn't wake up one day and go" Today, we're going to declareindependence" w/o any prior planning or discussion.
Most Americans are ignorant and think that if they don't see it on TV or read it in a major newspaper than it doesn't exist.
 
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i for one thought it was very interesting, merits at least an intelligent discussion. its very possible that less than 5% of the world's population couldbe running the world. if thats the case then you can't help but wonder.
 
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Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Eh. Some is correct , a lot is not.
It's not as simplistic as they make it seem to be.

It doesn't really do much good.


Study history. It is rife with conspiracies. All a conspiracy is that like minded individuals come together to accomplish a goal. There's nothing nefarious about that in and of itself.
The creation of the US Republic was a conspiracy.
The founding fathers didn't wake up one day and go" Today, we're going to declare independence" w/o any prior planning or discussion.
Most Americans are ignorant and think that if they don't see it on TV or read it in a major newspaper than it doesn't exist.
There's a massive difference between the dictionary definition of a conspiracy and thinking that 9/11 was an inside job.

You can't put "like minded individuals come together to accomplish a goal" in the same vein as conspiracy theories such as thinking that theUS government created the AIDS virus or UFO-type BS.
 
5,491
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Joined Jul 24, 2007
MakeMyHam wrote: [hr][/hr]
wawaweewa wrote: [hr][/hr]Eh. Some is correct , a lot is not.
It's not as simplistic as they make it seem to be.

It doesn't really do much good.


Study history. It is rife with conspiracies. All a conspiracy is that like minded individuals come together to accomplish a goal. There's nothing nefarious about that in and of itself.
The creation of the US Republic was a conspiracy.
The founding fathers didn't wake up one day and go" Today, we're going to declare independence" w/o any prior planning or discussion.
Most Americans are ignorant and think that if they don't see it on TV or read it in a major newspaper than it doesn't exist.



There's a massive difference between the dictionary definition of a conspiracy and thinking that 9/11 was an inside job.


You can't put "like minded individuals come together to accomplish a goal" in the same vein as conspiracy theories such as thinking that the US government created the AIDS virus or UFO-type BS.



You're absolutely correct.


However, most people won't even acknowledge that people can come together for nefarious means.


I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job but I do believe some people in government knew something big was coming. Now, I don't thinkthey knew exactly when or just how big it was going to be but some people definitely knew something was up. It was either negligence or ineptitude. Either way,no one ever took responsibility. The main reason these crackpot conspiracy theories even popped up is because the gov't wasn't forthright to beginwith.


Yes. Some conspiracy theories are BS like the AIDS thing, UFO's, or an inside job but others are not. Not everything is some crackpot conspiracy theory.
WARNINGS FROM FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE

This section focuses on known advance warnings received by the U.S. government from foreign intelligence services that proved to be specific enough to have identified the date (within one week), method, targets, and perpetrators of the attacks. It will not include warnings issued to the USG that could be considered vague or non-specific. The latter includes documented warnings sent by the governments of Egypt and Israel. However, in light of the specific warnings, these additional warnings add greater weight to the argument that the Administration was in possession of sufficient information to have prevented the attacks.

As reported in the respected German daily Frankfurter Algemeine Zeitung (FAZ) on Sept. 13, the German intelligence service, the BND, warned both the CIA and Israel in June of 2001 that Middle Eastern terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture. The story specifically referred to an electronic eavesdropping system known as Echelon, wherein a number of countries tap cell phone and electronic communications in partner countries and then pool the information. The BND warnings were also passed to the United Kingdom.

No known denial by the BND of the accuracy of this story exists, and the FAZ story indicates that the information was received directly from BND sources.

According to a Sept. 14 report in the Internet newswire online.ie, German police, monitoring the phone calls of a jailed Iranian man, learned the man was telephoning USG intelligence agencies last summer to warn of an imminent attack on the WTC in the week of Sept. 9. German officials confirmed the calls to the USG for the story but refused to discuss additional details.

In August 2000 French intelligence sources confirmed a man recently arrested in Boston by the FBI was an Islamic militant and a key member of Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network. The FBI knew the man had been taking flying lessons at the time of his arrest and was in possession of technical information on Boeing aircraft and flight manuals, as reported by Reuters on Sept. 13.

According to a story in Izveztia on Sept. 12, Russian intelligence warned the USG that as many as 25 pilots were training for missions involving the crashing of airliners into important targets.

In an MSNBC interview on Sept. 15, Russian President Vladimir Putin stated he had ordered Russian intelligence to warn the USG "in the strongest possible terms" of imminent assaults on airports and government buildings before the attacks on Sept. 11.

Conclusion: From just these five press stories, then, the USG had received credible advance warnings, some from heads of state, that commercial aircraft would be hijacked by as many as 25 hijackers at airports, with Boston a strong candidate, during the week of Sept. 9. The call to Odigo would have signaled the exact day.

No known preventive measures were taken.

INSIDER TRADING

The documented pre-Sept. 11 insider trading that occurred before the attacks involved only companies hit hard by the attacks. They include United Airlines, American Airlines, Morgan Stanley, Merrill-Lynch, Axa Reinsurance, Marsh & McLennan, Munich Reinsurance, Swiss Reinsurance, and Citigroup.

In order to argue that the massive and well-documented insider trading that occurred in at least seven countries immediately before the attacks of Sept. 11 did not serve as a warning to intelligence agencies, then it is necessary to argue that no one was aware of the trades as they were occurring, and that intelligence and law enforcement agencies of most industrialized nations do not monitor stock trades in real time to warn of impending attacks. Both assertions are false. Both assertions would also ignore the fact that the current executive vice president of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) for enforcement is David Doherty, a retired CIA general counsel. And also ignored is the fact that the trading in United Airlines stock -- one of the most glaring clues -- was placed through the firm Deutschebank/Alex Brown, which was headed until 1998 by the man who is now the executive director of the CIA, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard.

One wonders if it was a coincidence then, that Mayo Shattuck III, the head of the Alex Brown unit of Deutschebank -- which had its offices in the WTC -- suddenly resigned from a $30 million, three-year contract on Sept. 12, as reported by the New York Times and other papers.

The American exchanges that handle these trades, primarily the Chicago Board of Options Exchange (CBOE) and the NYSE, know on a daily basis what levels of put options are purchased. "Put options" are highly leveraged bets, tying up blocks of stock, that a given stock's share price will fall dramatically. To quote 60 Minutes from Sept. 19, "Sources tell CBS News that the afternoon before the attack, alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market."
It is hard to believe that they missed:

- A jump in UAL put options 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between Sept. 6 and Sept.10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. [CBS News, Sept. 26]

- A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. [CBS News, Sept. 26]

- No similar trading occurred on any other airlines. [Bloomberg Business Report, the Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), Herzliyya, Israel citing data from the CBOE]

- Morgan Stanley saw, between Sept. 7 and Sept.10, an increase of 27 times (not 27 percent) in the purchase of put options on its shares. [ICT Report, "Mechanics of Possible Bin-Laden Insider Trading Scam," Sept. 21, citing data from the CBOE].

- Merrill-Lynch saw a jump of more than 12 times the normal level of put options in the four trading days before the attacks. [Ibid]

These trades were certainly noticed after the attacks.

"This could very well be insider trading at the worst, most horrific, most evil use you've ever seen in your entire life... This would be one of the most extraordinary coincidences in the history of mankind if it was a coincidence," said Dylan Ratigan of Bloomberg Business News, interviewed on Good Morning Texas on Sept. 20.

"I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in 10 years of following the markets, particularly the options markets,' said John Kinnucan, principal of Broadband Research, as quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle," reported the Montreal Gazette on Sept. 19. The paper also wrote, "Agence France Presse, on Sept. 22, reported, 'And Germany's Bundesbank chief, Ernst Weltke, said on the sidelines of the meeting that a report of the investigation showed "bizarre" fiscal transactions prior to the attacks that could not have been chalked up to coincidence.
"Weltke said the transactions, 'could not have been planned and carried out without a certain knowledge,' particularly heavy trading in oil and gold futures."

ABC World News reported on Sept. 20, "Jonathan Winer, an ABC News consultant said, 'it's absolutely unprecedented to see cases of insider trading covering the entire world from Japan, to the U.S., to North America, to Europe."

How much money was involved? Andreas von Bülow, a former member of the German Parliament responsible for oversight of Germanys intelligence services estimated the worldwide amount at $15 billion, according to Tagesspiegel on Jan. 13. Other experts have estimated the amount at $12 billion. CBS News gave a conservative estimate of $100 million.

Not a single U.S. or foreign investigative agency has announced any arrests or developments in the investigation of these trades, the most telling evidence of foreknowledge of the attacks. This, in spite of the fact that former Security and Exchange Commission enforcement chief William McLucas told Bloomberg News that regulators would "certainly be able to track down every trade."

What is striking is that a National Public Radio report on Oct. 16 reported Britain's Financial Services Authority had cleared bin Laden and his henchmen of insider trading. If not bin Laden, then who else had advance knowledge?

It has been standard and established USG policy to be alert and responsive to anything even remotely resembling an attack on U.S. companies and/or the economy. The word "remote" does not apply here. The possible claim by the Bush Administration that, 'Gee, we just happened to miss this,' becomes even more implausible when considering the lengths intelligence agencies go to in order to track stock trades.

Note that the Israeli Institute for Counter-Terrorism was the first entity to release a detailed report on the insider trading. That alone is prima facie evidence of a direct relationship between the financial markets and terrorist investigations.


[h1]There's more but these aren't theories. They're just facts that are available to the public.
[/h1]
 
3,863
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Joined Aug 3, 2006
i hate to bring old post back...but i just saw alot of the videos and it messed my head...im not the type to be all spooked and stuff but i will remember thesethings
 
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Joined Mar 31, 2006
I just watched this movie recently...and it is one of the most thought provoking movies I have ever seen. Everybody should watch it, even if you dont believeit.
 
5,491
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Joined Jul 24, 2007
I'm glad it provokes people to think. I don't agree with every aspect of the documentary but many points are true.
Many people find it hard to believe because it goes against everything that they have been taught since they were a child. Other things are hard to believe forsome simply because they lack information.


Problem is that people in the US don't read anymore. We are really a dumbed down nation. As a nation we're the embodiment of "groupthink".

You'll notice than when people argue against Zeitgeist (let alone certain points) they don't even present an argument. They can't explain why theydisagree with it. All that they know is that it's wrong with what THEY perceive to be right but the same people refuse to read anything longer than aparagraph.
The country we live in is strange to say the least.
I disagree with some points but at least I can explain why I disagree.
 
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Joined Aug 23, 2005
Just saw this documentary. BUMP.

Really interesting. But I do have faith in people that they would not let themselves be monitored by microchips in their skin. But then again, who knows.

The only reason that documentary has to believe that is that one quote by Rockafeller (sp?) talking about RFID chips through that other guy. Shady.

Anyone have anything that argues against Zeitgeist?

I'd like to read something about how it's wrong and stuff. You know, just to be educated on both sides.
 
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Joined Jul 24, 2007
Originally Posted by Mo Matik



Really interesting. But I do have faith in people that they would not let themselves be monitored by microchips in their skin. But then again, who knows.

I'd like to read something about how it's wrong and stuff. You know, just to be educated on both sides.
�I think that implanting the RFID chip won't be a tough sell at all. Especially to our technology crazed generation.

It'd be extremely easy to sell parents on chipping their kids for "safety" reasons. You know. The 1 in a multi-million chance that you'rechild will be kidnapped or if ones child gets lost.

Then you'll have the argument that it's more convenient to be a cashless society and all your debit/credit info will be in the chip. "Justswipe your hand across the reader and you're good to go". No need to carry a wallet. Your driver's license, SS#, Bank Info, etc. will be in thechip.

There is nothing inherently wrong with being chipped but we all know that the Feds will make more use of it than just the stated reasons. Just like the SS#was first introduced as a non-important document and look how it is used today.
They'll sell the microchip through fear.� It'll take a few generations for the Feds to incorporate everything they want into a chip butit'll happen.
 
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I have watched the movie at least 3 times and it is very thought-provoking. Most people that I asked to watch it would not go past the Religion part. I foundthe 9/11 and the Tax parts of the movie very interesting....
 
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Joined Dec 2, 2006
The Federal reserve part was correct but certain parts of the religion could be considered disinfo. Do a little research on sun worhip,
 
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