(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

this is the first time me seeing this leaked... i didn't think they were going to do it.
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Pitman13 said:
You do know she thinks Stannis The Puppet is Azor Ahai.
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....and...???


First let me state the obvious
Azor Ahai
Rhollor
The prince who was promised
are 3 different people.


She's not claiming for him to be a Rhollor (a god) or the PWWP.

Shes claiming him to be a LEADER who was resurrected in spirit.

1. which hasn't been disproved (yet)
2. which is still not out the frame of possibility.

Explain the shadow babies. if he had no power with in him.

Explain the false kings dying but stannis still being a live??

Yes a lot may be coincidence but nothing has disproved him to being that great leader

that can't really be argued against. Stannis lives after having the possiblity of dying 3 times now.
 
Tdogg is having a conniption over the Red Women and her Puppet.

We're having two differ arguments. You're trying to prove Stannis is a great leader and I'm simply saying The Red Women prophecies aren't always accurate and sometimes misleading.

For example, in the books, she says that Arya will come to The Wall and it ends up being Jeyne Poole aka fake Arya.
 
Pitman13 said:
Tdogg is having a conniption over the Red Women and her Puppet.

We're having two differ arguments. You're trying to prove Stannis is a great leader and I'm simply saying The Red Women prophecies aren't always accurate and sometimes misleading.

For example, in the books, she says that Arya will come to The Wall and it ends up being Jeyne Poole aka fake Arya.
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That still doesn't prove that shes a fake...

ok you've proved her visions are vague, but she has also never met Arya... and for all intents and purposes, Jeyne pool was meant to be Arya. so she maybe heard her name somewhere in the fires. It wasn't the real Arya, but someone using her name... its not like they had name cards. ..


Melisandre remains at the Wall when Stannis marches south to face the Boltons.[1] Her powers are much stronger at the Wall. She constantly searches her fires for visions. When she looks into the flames, she sees a “wooden face, corpse white” with a thousand red eyes, accompanied by a boy with a wolf’s face. She assumes that they are servants of the Great Other.[4] She asks to see Azor Ahai, hoping for Stannis, but sees only Jon Snow surrounded by skulls, his face changing between that of a man and that of a wolf. When she sees Jon, she also sees enemies surrounding him, and warns him of daggers in the dark.[16] She also tells him that she sees his sister, Arya Stark, as a girl in grey on a dying horse, fleeing from her marriage toward Castle Black.[17] She continually tries to warn him of these visions, but he refuses to listen. The vision of the girl on the horse comes to pass, but the girl is Alys Karstark, not Arya.


At the Wall Melisandre warned Jon Snow of daggers in the dark. [emoji]169[/emoji]FFG
When Mance Rayder is to be burned as a deserter, Melisandre places a glamour over him, making him appear as the wildling, Rattleshirt. Rattleshirt in turn was glamoured made to look like Mance, and killed in his place. She eventually reveals Rattleshirt’s true identity to Jon Snow, and sends him to Winterfell to rescue "Arya" (not knowing that it is actually Jeyne Poole) in an attempt to win his trust. She also predicts the deaths of three rangers of the Watch. When they are returned by the Weeper to the Wall as eye-less heads atop spears as she predicted, Jon Snow begins to take her visions more seriously, but is still wary of her.

Melisandre then tells Lord Snow that the wildlings will next attack at Eastwatch, as she has seen in the flames towers by the sea engulfed in a black and bloody tide. She acknowledges, however, that the towers of her vision did not look like those at Eastwatch. When Snow plans to send men to Hardhome on a rescue mission, she urges him not to, claiming it is a lost cause and that she has seen that none of the ships he sent there will return
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what has been wrong???

ok shes not a 100% accurate on details, but she has been accurate of events happening.

she has said personally she doesn't see things in great detail...
 
Tdogg2k said:
....and...???


First let me state the obvious
Azor Ahai
Rhollor
The prince who was promised
are 3 different people.


She's not claiming for him to be a Rhollor (a god) or the PWWP.

Shes claiming him to be a LEADER who was resurrected in spirit.

1. which hasn't been disproved (yet)
2. which is still not out the frame of possibility.

Explain the shadow babies. if he had no power with in him.

Explain the false kings dying but stannis still being a live??

Yes a lot may be coincidence but nothing has disproved him to being that great leader

that can't really be argued against. Stannis lives after having the possiblity of dying 3 times now.
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She made Rattleshirt look like Mance during the burning, so Melissandre's magical abilities are still kinda unknown. Doesn't mean Stannis is Azor Ahai or anything magical. 

Stannis didn't die with the other false kings because he wasn't named. They only named Robb, Balon, and Jeof. 

Melissandre does think Stannis is Azhor Ahai reincarnated and she claims his sword is Lightbringer, but if you remember when Mastor Amon first met him he asked Sam if the sword felt warm or was hot and he said no..... so I'm pretty sure that's a clue that wasn't lightbringer.

You're correct in saying nothing has been disproven yet, but there are clues that Stannis isn't the person she thinks he will be and if that ends up being the case then that means Stannis killed his brother, daughter, and bunch of people because of what Mel said. Its crazy how she makes Stannis do some extreme stuff and then says that her visions are not always clear and Stannis is a fool for doing what she says knowing her visions are vague. He's killing people based on Miss Cleo level visions
laugh.gif
 
 
Pitman13 said:
Tdogg is having a conniption over the Red Women and her Puppet.

We're having two differ arguments. You're trying to prove Stannis is a great leader and I'm simply saying The Red Women prophecies aren't always accurate and sometimes misleading.

For example, in the books, she says that Arya will come to The Wall and it ends up being Jeyne Poole aka fake Arya.
Click to expand...
TextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextTextText

I have to look up the actual text, but I feel like what she predicted was accurate and Jon just ran with the idea that it was Arya. Has she ever been outright wrong about a vision? I think they're usually very vague and open for interpretation and the interpreter is the one who interprets incorrectly.
 
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HarlemToTheBronx said:
I have to look up the actual text, but I feel like what she predicted was accurate and Jon just ran with the idea that it was Arya. Has she ever been outright wrong about a vision? I think they're usually very vague and open for interpretation and the interpreter is the one who interprets incorrectly.
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“I have seen your sister in my fires, fleeing from this marriage they have made for her. Coming here, to you. A girl in grey on a dying horse, I have seen it plain as day. It has not happened yet, but it will.”

Not sure how this can be open to interpretation. Clearly she's talking about fake Arya and she probably doesn't know that(or maybe she does). Either way she's still wrong. 
 
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Again..... in her fires shes seeing and hearing visions we assume right. So if shes hearing arya in screams or word of mouth. And people think shes arya the. Damnit she sees arya in the fires.....shes never met the real arya stark so how can she 100% confirm.
 
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Tdogg2k said:
Again..... in her fires shes seeing and hearing visions we assume right. So if shes hearing arya in screams or word of mouth. And people think shes arya the. Damnit she sees arya in the fires.....shes never met the real arya stark so how can she 100% confirm.
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I understand that, I'm just saying she might think she's right, but she's wrong. 

Haven't read ADwD in a while so I could be wrong, but I don't think Mel ever told Jon it was Arya. She said "your sister" and "girl in grey on a horse". Jon assumed it was Arya so I don't think she heard her name in the flames or else she would have just said I saw Arya. Also that vision was so vague she tried to find her again in the flames and couldn't. 

"The girl. I must find the girl again, the grey girl on the dying horse. Jon Snow would expect that of her, and soon. It would not be enough to say the girl was fleeing. He would want more, he would want the when and where, and she did not have that for him. She had seen the girl only once. A girl as grey as ash, and even as I watched she crumbled and blew away."

Again she was correct about the girl on the horse, but she was wrong about her being Jon's sister. Now if she did her "Arya" in the flames then I guess she could be correct on a technicality, but I don't think she did. I could be wrong though. 
 
i sort of feel it was just wording. like she didn't need to say Arya, Jon only had one sister that he knew nothing about.
What Jon snow knows:
Robb is dead (not exactly killed by roose but killed by walder ... remember in the book no one knows that roose stabbed him)
Bran and Rickon are burned (Sam doesn't tell Jon in the book they're alive)
Sansa is with in Kings Landing (doesn't know she is in the Vale considering a lot of this time he's out (or wasn't LC yet and I think they kept it on lockdown she escaped. anyway)
but it was known that Arya escaped back in book 1/2.

so even if she says sister, that's the only one "free" to interpret Plus don't forget Melisandre has always been in the Know of Westeros politics.

My whole point is I dont think we can sit here and be like she's a fraud, shes wrong she doesnt know what shes talking about when she's been 100% with what happens but not with exact details...
 
Does anyone think the red woman is playing Stannis? Like she knows he's the only way to get to possibly Jon? Just hyping him up to pretty much use him for her own good.
 
she has already gotten to Jon and still told stannis what she did..

I dont think shes using him just that's what she truly believes. as i said a couple of post ago.

3 things she believes in
Azor Ahai,
PwwP
Rhollor.

I think she may think of him as pwwp
 
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So one of my friends took a class on the books and show this semester. The professor stated that Loras wasn't confirmed to be gay in the books and gave them proof on why he isn't. Me an my friend have been arguing about this since then.

What do you guys think?
 
MrSneakerman said:
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So one of my friends took a class on the books and show this semester. The professor stated that Loras wasn't confirmed to be gay in the books and gave them proof on why he isn't. Me an my friend have been arguing about this since then.

What do you guys think?
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Knight of Flowers/endthread

Seriously though, where is this class? I want to take it!!

I remember somewhere in the books alludes that Melisandre's visions are vague and sometimes not accurate. Or maybe it was a quote from GRRM.
 
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Him nor renly were confirmed gay. Its assumed but other than one possible section was never touched on.
 
Just because someone didn't straight up say Renly or Loras were gay doesn't mean they're not. The hints are there. Not everything needs to be spelled out. 
 
Legendairy Stinson said:
Knight of Flowers/endthread

Seriously though, where is this class? I want to take it!!

I remember somewhere in the books alludes that Melisandre's visions are vague and sometimes not accurate. Or maybe it was a quote from GRRM.
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He went to Cortland University in NY. Apparently the professor has a card game that GRRM approved. I even offered to write some of his papers lol

But back to the topic, I read books and picked it up also. Just wanted to see if some others felt the same way as him.
 
Out of deaths. Incest, flayings. Child molestation and deaths.
Why would grrm be afraid to me tion flat out they had sex and are gay?
 
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