Tipping etiquette when you're being treated

illadelALLDAY said:
I already explained how it goes down at an upscale joint. The type of work is essentially the same between a midrange restaurant and something upscale, but at nicer places the menus are constantly changing, there are always daily specials, there are more options than just grilled and fried stuff. You have to be knowledgable about various preparation methods as well as styles of cuisine. Wine varietals (other than Moscato lol) to help guide guests through the meal.
Then of course, at these same places, they don't just have coffee and soda. Espresso is tricky to do right and guests who order it are usually pretty finicky about how its made. Then of course if someone wants a latte I have to froth the milk on top of packing two double espressos while muddling a mojito (It's not uncommon for servers to make cocktails - usually in the daytime when there is no or only one bartender). But wait, the old lady who says the coffee I brought over isn't hot enough (just finished brewing) so now I've got to brew another pot, make another setup (tedious things like this add up), top the latte, meanwhile I have two tables waiting for their checks that I have to get a manager to apply discounts to, a kid just spilled some juice all over the table that I have to clean immediately (otherwise I wasn't 'attentive' enough), I just got sat with a new party of four that I have to greet in under 2 minutes otherwise I get my *** reamed out by management and then spend another few minutes detailing today's specials, then spend another five minutes explaining things that are gluten free or vegan or kosher or halal or WHATEVER dietary concern EVERY table has (see? gotta know intimate details about the menu), etc.
TL;DR - Sorry not an option because this is exactly what a busy shift is like serving.
What people don't understand is that this is all happening SIMULTANEOUSLY. Just for kicks, if you really want to have an understanding (clearly you don't) pick up a part time job serving. Something tells me you won't be able to hack it.
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Sounds like a lot of fluff. AppleBee's and Red Lobster add new things to the menu constantly too, and people will ask them about things on the menu, and asking them what is low calorie, low carb, make a mixed drink like a soda suicide, etc.

And no I don't have a desire to take a job where I will make 2 bucks an hr then have to rely on other's people's level of guilt and/or generosity for a salary; would rather just know how much I'm getting every other Friday so I can make plans with it.

And again, dude you keep admitting you give people worst service because you just know they aren't going to tip you, then complain about it. Well should they tip you great anyways, after you gave them substandard service because you assumed they weren't going to tip you?

I mostly eat at hotel restaurants and room service when I'm on the road and gratuity is already out in there, don't know why you all keep assuming I don't tip. I don't know where I ever said that aside from the doorman story and I guarantee you I am nowhere near the only person who doesn't tip people for holding the door open. I've been to hotels that had a dude in the elevator who all he did was ask your floor and push the button all day. Kats were hitting him off with like 5's and 10's. I just laughed because someone who walked in before me was on the same floor so my button was already pressed, plus again I don't figure that to be worth very much to an able bodied gent like myself plus he's another guy who makes a normal wage so doesn't even have the "Well you're tipping me because I'm underpaid" thing to fall back on.
 
YeOld360s said:
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut you get the service (whether it be good or bad) before you pay for the tip.
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You dont have to tip if you are in the regular line. It's still a business and they have to serve you to make money. Food is the service. Whether you like how it's served, its your call to tip if you are in the stand by line.

Also, my theory would also include shorter waits for those that tip. It's part of the excellent service.
 
As someone who works in a Bar/ Grill spot I can only speak on my personal experience.

Where I work is connected to a sports arena, so our best and busiest days revolve around events going on.

Other than that it's the normal lunch rush.

All that being said, people don't really realize how tough our job actually is, not the serving the food part, that's actually pretty easy, but everything else. Primarily trying to go above and beyond because you have to work in order to see 18% of your total sales. I will say the worst is knowing that everytime you get a foreign party of people, you're pretty much guaranteed to not get tipped, and if you do, its nothing near what you should.

That's not their faults, I blame Reagan for making tips taxable, leading to servers getting paid below minimum wage. And in other countries, the servers get paid minimum wage so tipping 1-3% is customary.

Yes we do remember horrible tippers, just the same as people remember their servers who treat them well.

But the biggest thing I want to stress is that most people who go and order food at a restaurant need to learn the difference between a kitchen error and a server error. A lot of times, we pay the penalty for something that the Back of House staff does wrong. I'm only saying its messed up because the cooks are going to get paid the same amount of money regardless. Not the same for us who live off what we earn in tips.

~ the U.R.G.
 
DatZNasty said:
Sounds like a lot of fluff. AppleBee's and Red Lobster add new things to the menu constantly too, and people will ask them about things on the menu, and asking them what is low calorie, low carb, make a mixed drink like a soda suicide, etc.
And no I don't have a desire to take a job where I will make 2 bucks an hr then have to rely on other's people's level of guilt and/or generosity for a salary; would rather just know how much I'm getting every other Friday so I can make plans with it.
And again, dude you keep admitting you give people worst service because you just know they aren't going to tip you, then complain about it. Well should they tip you great anyways, after you gave them substandard service because you assumed they weren't going to tip you?
I mostly eat at hotel restaurants and room service when I'm on the road and gratuity is already out in there, don't know why you all keep assuming I don't tip. I don't know where I ever said that aside from the doorman story and I guarantee you I am nowhere near the only person who doesn't tip people for holding the door open. I've been to hotels that had a dude in the elevator who all he did was ask your floor and push the button all day. Kats were hitting him off with like 5's and 10's. I just laughed because someone who walked in before me was on the same floor so my button was already pressed, plus again I don't figure that to be worth very much to an able bodied gent like myself plus he's another guy who makes a normal wage so doesn't even have the "Well you're tipping me because I'm underpaid" thing to fall back on.
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Wy do you keep talking about not taking a servers job? Good for you! Who are you to judge what jobs other people do? You have a very condescending attitude towards people in service industry. You must balling out of control right now to have that attitude. Do this next time. Go into a restaurant, high end or not, tell them up front that you will not tip. Proceed with the meal and tell me how much it changes. Then post your experience on NT.
 
Actually, I don't not tip bro for one. Secondly, dude suggested it and I gave an answer. I don't even see how you read that is condescending, is it not objectively true? I have bills to pay so the wage + tips thing wouldn't work, because again I'd need to know an exact figure since some will be spent before I get it.

And your no tip line idea is stupid and just going to have all of you in there hawking loogies in people's soup and you know it.

Another +1 for admitting to profiling by the way
 
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DatZNasty said:
Actually, I don't not tip bro for one. Secondly, dude suggested it and I gave an answer. I don't even see how you read that is condescending, is it not objectively true? I have bills to pay so the wage + tips thing wouldn't work, because again I'd need to know an exact figure since some will be spent before I get it.
And your no tip line idea is stupid and just going to have all of you in there hawking loogies in people's soup and you know it.
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That's an assumption and you know it. You have no justification for that. You want the best of both worlds, service w/o tipping. But if you are very cautious of your cash flows, just know that servers are very dependent on tips and adjust your spending accordingly or just be upfront with them regarding your tipping habits.
 
DatZNasty said:
Sounds like a lot of fluff. AppleBee's and Red Lobster add new things to the menu constantly too, and people will ask them about things on the menu, and asking them what is low calorie, low carb, make a mixed drink like a soda suicide, etc.
And no I don't have a desire to take a job where I will make 2 bucks an hr then have to rely on other's people's level of guilt and/or generosity for a salary; would rather just know how much I'm getting every other Friday so I can make plans with it.
And again, dude you keep admitting you give people worst service because you just know they aren't going to tip you, then complain about it. Well should they tip you great anyways, after you gave them substandard service because you assumed they weren't going to tip you?
I mostly eat at hotel restaurants and room service when I'm on the road and gratuity is already out in there, don't know why you all keep assuming I don't tip. I don't know where I ever said that aside from the doorman story and I guarantee you I am nowhere near the only person who doesn't tip people for holding the door open. I've been to hotels that had a dude in the elevator who all he did was ask your floor and push the button all day. Kats were hitting him off with like 5's and 10's. I just laughed because someone who walked in before me was on the same floor so my button was already pressed, plus again I don't figure that to be worth very much to an able bodied gent like myself plus he's another guy who makes a normal wage so doesn't even have the "Well you're tipping me because I'm underpaid" thing to fall back on.
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It may sound like fluff, but I assure you it isn't. That's what a standard shift is like.

Not all the time, maybe once a year, at most, will chains change their menu. And that's being generous. There's places that change the ENTIRE menu (sides and all) every month. Only thing that doesn't usually change that much is the mixed drink list. But wait, there's a rotating draft selection (oh yeah, gotta know about beer styles too. More than just Corona out there, brosef). And I said cocktails, not a mixed drink. Cosmos, martinis, etc.

Caloric and carb information is already printed on those menus at chains so anyone asking those kinds of questions is daft. Also, where did I say I give people bad service? No where. The only thing I implied was that demands are hard to keep up with - and they are. It sucks being held accountable when a group of people hit me with a barrage of requests at the same time and you have to meet every single one according to each individual person's idea of what prompt service is, disregarding the fact that 10 other people asked me for stuff to.

All I'm saying is be aware and understanding of the situation or underlying causes.
 
LakersUscTrojan said:
That's an assumption and you know it. You have no justification for that. You want the best of both worlds, service w/o tipping. But if you are very cautious of your cash flows, just know that servers are very dependent on tips and adjust your spending accordingly or just be upfront with them regarding your tipping habits.
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BTW, YOU JUST PROVED THE PROFILING! Disclosure, I have no idea what nationality or race you are.
 
LakersUscTrojan said:
That's an assumption and you know it. You have no justification for that. You want the best of both worlds, service w/o tipping. But if you are very cautious of your cash flows, just know that servers are very dependent on tips and adjust your spending accordingly or just be upfront with them regarding your tipping habits.
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Insist that I don't tip servers all day, won't make it any more true though. And not you necessarily ALLDAY, but at least 2 already have admitted to profiling and giving substandard service on just page 8 alone.
 
And for the record:

It doesn't matter what restaurant you go to: If a server doesn't know exactly how the food is prepared its just because its that server. Many restaurants without a "significantly high price point" require their employees to know how the food is prepared, all the ingredients for the food, what type and meat (i.e. species, body part, etc.) is being used on specific dishes, what does and does not contain certain products like Corn syrup, soy, etc.

Prime example: Here is a copy of my place of employment's menu. http://www.thegreeneturtle.com/sports-bar-family-friendly-restaurant

Not only was I required to know everything that is on the menu, but know the ingredients, how each is prepared, etc. a meal for two at my spot may not hit $30, but knowing all those things is still necessary.

The differences between a 5 star restaurant and 3 Star really has very little to do with Servers.
 
LakersUscTrojan said:
BTW, YOU JUST PROVED THE PROFILING! Disclosure, I have no idea what nationality or race you are.
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YOU SAID this I would say that approximately 75% of certain type of people don't tip. They come in with a sense if entitlement and are very bitter from the beginning. They complain all the time and try to create a false reason not to tip.

My solution would be to create two lines. One where the tip in included and you are guaranteed excellent service. Kind of like first class for airlines. Personally, the service is part of the dining experience especially at high end restaurants.

Nowitzness41 said: Oh, and if you've waited tables,for the most part (there are surprises, but by and large ) YOU KNOW who is gonna tip and who is gonna treat you like a slave and give you jack$#*() before they even order


profiling
Example Sentences
pro·fil·ing
  [proh-fahy-ling] Show IPA
noun
the use of specific characteristics, as race or age, to make generalizations about a person, as whether he or she may be engaged in illegal activity.
 
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I do believe in tipping, but I also do believe in a ceiling. If I spend $4,000 on a meal, $600+ tip is a little high. It hold be really based on the number of patrons in you party. 40 people = yes. 4 = no.
 
DatZNasty said:
YOU SAID this I would say that approximately 75% of certain type of people don't tip. They come in with a sense if entitlement and are very bitter from the beginning. They complain all the time and try to create a false reason not to tip.
My solution would be to create two lines. One where the tip in included and you are guaranteed excellent service. Kind of like first class for airlines. Personally, the service is part of the dining experience especially at high end restaurants.

Nowitzness41 said: Oh, and if you've waited tables,for the most part (there are surprises, but by and large ) YOU KNOW who is gonna tip and who is gonna treat you like a slave and give you jack$#*() before they even order
profiling
Example Sentences
pro·fil·ing
  [proh-fahy-ling] Show IPA
noun
the use of specific characteristics, as race or age, to make generalizations about a person, as whether he or she may be engaged in illegal activity.
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Please read.
http://madamenoire.com/110803/stuff-black-people-dont-like-tipping/
When I said 75%, it's strictly based on experience. So you learn from your environment. Your point is?
 
RamZs8906 said:
As someone who works in a Bar/ Grill spot I can only speak on my personal experience.
Where I work is connected to a sports arena, so our best and busiest days revolve around events going on.
Other than that it's the normal lunch rush.
All that being said, people don't really realize how tough our job actually is, not the serving the food part, that's actually pretty easy, but everything else. Primarily trying to go above and beyond because you have to work in order to see 18% of your total sales. I will say the worst is knowing that everytime you get a foreign party of people, you're pretty much guaranteed to not get tipped, and if you do, its nothing near what you should.
That's not their faults, I blame Reagan for making tips taxable, leading to servers getting paid below minimum wage. And in other countries, the servers get paid minimum wage so tipping 1-3% is customary.
Yes we do remember horrible tippers, just the same as people remember their servers who treat them well.
But the biggest thing I want to stress is that most people who go and order food at a restaurant need to learn the difference between a kitchen error and a server error. A lot of times, we pay the penalty for something that the Back of House staff does wrong. I'm only saying its messed up because the cooks are going to get paid the same amount of money regardless. Not the same for us who live off what we earn in tips.
~ the U.R.G.
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^^^^^^^thank you for recognizing some fundamental issues, I don't mind tipping I have issues with the system. 

You work at the Green Turtle at Verizon center right. Word to Walt Williams.
 
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RamZs8906 said:
nerd.gif
Yeah, I do.
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You guys are always packed during the spring and fall, between Georgetown games, caps, wizards, random concerts.
 
DatZNasty said:
LakersUscTrojan said:
That's an assumption and you know it. You have no justification for that. You want the best of both worlds, service w/o tipping. But if you are very cautious of your cash flows, just know that servers are very dependent on tips and adjust your spending accordingly or just be upfront with them regarding your tipping habits.
Click to expand...
Insist that I don't tip servers all day, won't make it any more true though. And not you necessarily ALLDAY, but at least 2 already have admitted to profiling and giving substandard service on just page 8 alone.
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with this tipping situation what is wrong with so called profiling? aka sizing someone up. you seem really hung up on that word


in the end, if you were profiled correctly (think you're a bad tipper) you get bad service that you (not you specifically) aren't gonna tip well for anyways and if you are profiled incorrectly (think you're a good tipper) you get good service which you were expecting
 
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cocotaso1 said:
with this tipping situation what is wrong with profiling? aka sizing someone up. you seem really hung up on that word
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Does it not create a cycle? You see someone and assume they're not going to give a good tip, so obviously you aren't going to give them them that great of service, now in their mind you didn't give them that great of service, so you won't get a good tip and you'll blame them and not to mention "confirm" your bias against their ilk and continue to do the same thing and it perpetuates.
DatZNasty, who does deserve a tip? Just curious. Obviously your barber does.
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I would say just anyone who falls into that whole 2$ thing, and beyond that it's up to the consumer if they feel like tipping somebody.

And my barber really doesn't, but like every other thing, if I didn't she would possibly start zeeking me on purpose. I'd prefer if they want $20, just charge me $20 and not $16 with the secret, unwritten expectation that I give you 20. If I used valet everyday, I would tip them outrageously too. Again, not that I think they deserve it, but I have heard stories even from valets themselves about dinging cars on purpose or stealing ****. But the door opener and elevator button pusher, nah bro. You get a thanks and a head nod. Ditto for mailman, baggage checker, free shuttle driver from the parking lot to the terminal at the airport, sandwich maker/barista, Sorry.

People who are clever with pricing tend to get good tips from me, just because I hate paper money and particularly 1s, so if something is $14 to $16 and you only take cash, probably let you just keep the whole $20. I'm thinking downtown to the airport shuttle buses here. I have only taken a cab 3 times in my life that I remember, got raped on the price every time, don't remember if I tipped, guarantee I didn't last time, in fact came close to snuffing the driver in the face as I got out. Long story.

Guy who mows my lawn sometimes charges me $45, I usually give him $50
 
DatZNasty said:
cocotaso1 said:
with this tipping situation what is wrong with profiling? aka sizing someone up. you seem really hung up on that word
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Does it not create a cycle? You see someone and assume they're not going to give a good tip, so obviously you aren't going to give them them that great of service, now in their mind you didn't give them that great of service, so you won't get a good tip and you'll blame them and not to mention "confirm" your bias against their ilk and continue to do the same thing and it perpetuates.
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so then customers who expect the world, abuse/cheat the system/staff or are cheap/stingy aren't perpetuating the cycle as well? we are all in this together
 
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Maybe they appear to you to be cheap/stingy because you judged them as that as soon as you saw them and thusly gave them terrible service, and a cheap tip is appropriate for the level of service you provided.
 
I only tip because I feel socially obligated to do so. When I sit at a restaurant or a barbers chair, there is a subconscious social agreement that i am expected to tip. I could cut my own hair or eat at home, but I chose to go out so I will fulfill my end of the deal. I hate entitled barbers/waiters and I'm not even sure why I should be paying you to do your job well....when thats why your employed to do anyway? But its one of those social things I do abide by. I might not like tipping, but if its at a place where it is socially expected then I will tip.


Edit: I dont mind tipping when I think its exceptionally good service, as in the person went above and beyond the call of duty to help me out. But just doing your job isnt enough for me to think its deserved. I guess it doesnt matter since I will tip anyway :lol:
 
I hate tipping when you have to pay for valet, and then tip when you pick up your car.  If it is a free valet service, I do not mind tipping.
 
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