2013 College Football Thread (Realer than Real Deal Holyfield -->S/O Craftsy)

[shox23]

Manziel will go in the second at worst some gm will get happy feet.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Flourish

 

[fear the ibis]

People say the same thing every damn year about mobile QBs.


Cam Newton...he won't be able to run in the NFL
RG3....he won't be able to run in the NFL
Kaep....can't run in the NFL


Even Terrelle Pryor's bum self is having success in the NFL.


So spare me the Manziel won't succeed in the NFL with his style of play you Merrill Hodge sounding *** ******.

Man..Step your *** back. He was making extremely valid points. Success in the NFL should not be based off of a 3-year sample, let alone 2 games. You're talking about guys that can run...WE talkin' about QUARTERBACKS.

No. He was making the same generalizations about mobile QBs that "scouts" have been making for years. Generalizations that are applied to every mobile QB coming out even when they apply. Generalizations that have been proven to be false by multiple QBs that have come out of college the last few years.

 

[fear the ibis]

the best player in college football in the last decade

Technically, everything Reggie did in college was vacated so he doesn't count.

 

[champcruthik]

Ibis: As passionate as you are about CFB and European football, you know little about either.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

the best player in college football in the last decade

Technically, everything Reggie did in college was vacated so he doesn't count.

As an Oregon fan, I approve of this message.

As a CFB fan, I don't care what the NCAA says... what I saw Prez do with my own two eyes was :x :x :x

Johnny's footwork is seriously underrated. Could he be a better QB? Yeah, but the dude is slippery as ****. You can't teach that.

 

[shox23]

Reggie was like Vick in Madden 04 untouchable

 

[Bobby Layne]

Height concerns: He's not Brees or Russy.

Wild style: Backyard football is unconventional and unproven in the NFL.

Decision-making: That Tyree heave was a questionable throw. Back corner fade was partially the receiver's fault, but also some blame on Johnny.

Durability: Can he scramble and take hits with his frame at the highest level? Vick says otherwise.

Off-field concerns: Drinking, mercurial personality, center of scandals.

 Vick has had problem’s staying healthy since his time at VT though IIRC.  It’s not like he came into the league with no past history of injuries, and started having problem’s staying healthy because he was playing against bigger and stronger players.

To this point Manziel hasn’t had any injuries that have forced him to miss game’s IIRC.  I think it’s fair to have concerns about him staying healthy to due his size, but I think it’s unfair to assume (not saying you are) that he’s not going to be able to stay healthy due to his size and playing style.

IMO Manziel does a much better job at avoiding hits and protecting himself than Vick ever has.

 

[champcruthik]

You highlight Johnny's two signature performances against Bama, yet neglect the poor performance against Florida and even worse debacle against LSU, which is as close to a NFL defense as Bama.

His own father cites a potential drinking problem. I ignore ESPN. Numerous off-field incidents in one Summer is the media's fault, not Johnny's?

Manziel's pocket presence or awareness is comparable to Brees? Your own father should smack you.

I didn't say he can't run effectively, I said the worrisome concern is durability. Can his body take the hits at the professional level while scrambling out of the pocket? Vick and RG3 say otherwise. Even Harbaugh is cognizant of protecting Kaep. SF has put the chains on Kaep running for longevity.

FTR, Manziel isn't better than VY, Reggie, or Tebow up to this point. All three have something Johnny doesn't. And likely will not after the Bama loss.

Good day, sir.

 

[champcruthik]

Bobby Layne: Point taken. MV7 is extremely frustrating to watch running the football. Explosive, but loose with protecting the ball and always trying to stretch extra yards at the sake of his body and health.

 

[champcruthik]

We haven't even gotten into Johnny's arm at the next level, which is a major concern for many NFL scouts and draft analysts.

Mel Kiper left Manziel off his initial draft board. I believe it's top-32 prospects. Credible enough?

 

[champcruthik]

Generalizing mobile QB's? Yet I support MM and Hundley immensely because of the transition to mobility as a key trait in the modern NFL QB.

You have to cater an offense to Manziel's skillset, the NBC crew touched on it last night. His style is unique, unorthodox. Not every OC and HC can work with that successfully.

Top-15 players should enter your system regardless of scheme and produce. Based on draft slot, guaranteed money, and historical expectations that come with a top-15 selection.

 

[jjs07]

We haven't even gotten into Johnny's arm at the next level, which is a major concern for many NFL scouts and draft analysts.

Mel Kiper left Manziel off his initial draft board. I believe it's top-32 prospects. Credible enough?

His speed/elusiveness (to me) makes up for his lack of arm strength. If he's going to stand there in the pocket all day, he's going to suck. If you get him moving around, extending plays, he's going to get his WRs a good chance to get open. He's not going to have to thread the needle into tight coverage. What we saw vs. Bama is what I envision his pro coach doing for him on the next level. They will cater to his strengths.

It's a new NFL. 5 years ago, he probably would have been a 4th or 5th round pick. In today's league where you have a lot of dual-threat QBs, he's a 1st rounder.

 

[fear the ibis]

You highlight Johnny's two signature performances against Bama, yet neglect the poor performance against Florida and even worse debacle against LSU, which is as close to a NFL defense as Bama.
.
His own father cites a potential drinking problem. I ignore ESPN. Numerous off-field incidents in one Summer is the media's fault, not Johnny's?

Manziel's pocket presence or awareness is comparable to Brees? Your own father should smack you.

I didn't say he can't run effectively, I said the worrisome concern is durability. Can his body take the hits at the professional level while scrambling out of the pocket? Vick and RG3 say otherwise. Even Harbaugh is cognizant of protecting Kaep. SF has put the chains on Kaep running for longevity.

FTR, Manziel isn't better than VY, Reggie, or Tebow up to this point. All three have something Johnny doesn't. And likely will not after the Bama loss.

Good day, sir.

Did you just bring up his 1st ever game as a college player as an indictment upon him not being great? Lmao Are you serious b?

Florida probably had the best defense in the country last year. They were ranked top 5 in almost every category. And it was his first game ever as a college player. And I looked it up....he STILL has 76% completion and a 125 rating. So what the hell are you talking about?

And yes...if you've watched him play, you should see that he is VERY calm in the pocket, even amidst heavy pressure. Which is comparable to how Brees is.

He doesn't take hits, so you're completely making up the durability issue.

You don't know about NFL football either. In SF"s first two games Green Bay and Seattle have loaded the box and force Kaepernick to throw to beat them, has nothing to do with SF putting "chains" on his running.



Manziel isn't better than Tebow? You're drunk. Log off b. Can't even take you seriously anymore.

 

[champcruthik]

J's: I suppose anything is possible when Manuel goes 16th overall a year previous. Gabbert, Locker, Ponder before that.

Huge disparity between top-15 and late first though. Risk decreases dramatically. A team with the right OC may bite and trade back into the first for Johnny. I still see more of a second rounder because Mariota and Hundley are slotted higher. Maybe even McCarron.

And I'm not a Johnny hater, he's entertaining. The escapability when the pocket is flushed is amusing. Romo and Ben esque without the pure power, size, or strength.

 

[Bobby Layne]

I think his arm strength (velocity) is the biggest concern, but I also think that it’s around the same ballpark as guys like McCarron and David Fales. 

 

[fear the ibis]

We haven't even gotten into Johnny's arm at the next level, which is a major concern for many NFL scouts and draft analysts.

Mel Kiper left Manziel off his initial draft board. I believe it's top-32 prospects. Credible enough?

http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/...test-gifs-of-drake-on-degrassi/j35_459883.gif



Look at that. Manziel on Mel Kiper's first big board.

You have stooped so low as to completely making up facts. Just stop it.

 

[champcruthik]

First game inexperience? Yet Johnny threw for 10 TD's and ran for 5 his next three games.

One rushing TD, no passing tubs in a loss to Florida at home.

The durability issue is a concern at the next level. Not now, Cooper Manning. NFL defenses are faster, stronger, better coached, and better tacklers.

Ask any Niners fan, Kaep has been encouraged to run less. Collinsworth even mentioned it during the broadcast. Harbaugh is legitimately concerned about defenses targeting Kaep's body when he scrambles out of the pocket. It's the only thing he talked about all preseason.

Tebow is miles better than Manziel as a college player. 2 titles, Johnny will have zero by the end of the season.

 

[champcruthik]

Heisman.

All-American three years consecutive. Twice first team.

2 SEC titles.

 

[champcruthik]

No, Ibis. Kiper initially left Johnny off. I said, I believed it to be top-32. I wasn't quite sure.

There was a segment on First Take about it a week or two ago. Mel explained why. Skip provided rebuttal.

 

[philosophiae dr]

I don't even like JFF, but I think he'll find a way to somehow succeed in the NFL and continue to piss off a good portion of America.

The kid just BALLS.

I can't even hate anymore.

 

[statis22]

I was waiting on the Bo Pelini heat to crank up now it seems it's full steam ahead.

Some nice action Saturday and i don't think it was a major topic of discussion nationally but after the A&M game a false narrative was going around that Texas teams struggle against strong offenses because of the spread offenses thats ran in HS's across the state here. I thought it was a bunch of BS.

And afters this weekend's games and looking at the rankings the recurring theme will continue, if you're not in the SEC and you plan on making a run for a national title you better win em all. So Oregon, Stanford, Ohio State, Louisville, Michigan, FSU, Clemson, tread waters lightly.

 

[champcruthik]

55 TD's in one season for Tebow. '07.

I believe 145 total for his career.

Tebow > Johnny, at the college level. Not even close to Tebow, Reggie, or VY.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

It's a new NFL. 5 years ago, he probably would have been a 4th or 5th round pick. In today's league where you have a lot of dual-threat QBs, he's a 1st rounder.

I was just about to say this.

Jake Locker, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Brandon Weeden, and Tim Tebow all went in the first round over the last four-five years. A bunch of these guys had "intangibles," "NFL arms," and half a dozen more cute scout catchphrases. /shrug

Off-the-field issues get blown out of proportion, too. Janoris Jenkins, Vontaze, Honey Badger, Bruce Irvin, Kiko Alonso, Alec Ogletree, etc...

Yeah, there will be the headcases and guys that can't make it... but with the right coaching staff and surroundings, everything can change.

I ain't saying the dude will come into the league and turn into the next Aaron Rodgers, but I definitely think that if he's given an opportunity, I think he'll be all right.

 

[dland24]

People are really going to sit here and act as if Tebow isnt one of the greatest college QBs they have ever seen play.  Just because dude sucked in the NFL doesnt take away from what he did in college. 

Tebow > Manziel (not even close at this point)