***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

Medical School is expensive.
Subsidized loans does not mean that you dont have to pay the money back it just means that you dont pay interest while in school where as unsub starts accruing interest from the moment its disbursed. and you can only do 8500 sub vs 30k unsub.
Who ever said getting a loan was a right. Its the same as a mortgage or car loan you have to pay it back. You dont benefit from it other than being able to gain the education. Borrowing money at ridiculous interest rates is not a social program IMO.
Getting free money for food is an entitlement.
Trust me the govt isnt losing money loaning me the money

-First off I know how student loans work. But the reason the interest doesn't accrue during those times is not some magic, is because the government eats the cost. It like the government saying, while you are in school or unemployed, don't worry about the interest we will cover it for you.

-And once again, you can't look past you own experience. Sure you will pay off your loans, but the government also gives grants. You're arguing favor of student loans because of your single experience but argue against the entire welfare system as a whole. For example: So the single mother with 3 kids should go hungry? Or steal, or sell her body to feed her kids?

-You damn sure get a financial benefit from a education. People that graduate college make way more than those who just have a HS degree. On average the more educated a person is the more the make per year and over a lifetime it adds up to a ton. Your student loans are allowing you to go to medical school which will result it you making way more the a regular college grad.

-And federal student loans are not the same as a car loan or mortgages. Chase Banks makes money off of car loans, makes money off of mortgages. Under the older system the government didn't make money off of student loans and grants. Even paying for the subsidies for the loans cost them money. So yeah the government wasn't losing money off of loaning you money, but they damn sure ain't making any. Under the new system the still have to theoretically "pay" to keep the rates on subsidized loans low and for the deferment periods

-And I said getting a loan was not a right. I wasn't put words in your mouth, like you did to me. And Federal loan interest rates are not ridiculous, stop with the oh woe is me act.

With all that being said I would love for America to work towards all citizens being able to be a free or cheap post secondary education

 

[essential1]

Just saw you added a few things. The most broken part of our military is procurement. If we can fix that we can save a good chunk of money but no politician will. They'd rather buy fewer bullets than kill a project in their district. Most of what we spend is on the military is paying or troops. If all we did was pay our military we would still outspend a large portion of the world.

No one is saying we shouldn't have a strong military.. Not one person is saying that..

But you could cut military and still have a strong military.. And I made a mistake it was more money than the next 19 countries combined.. Most of which are allies, or countries that wouldn't dream of fighting us.

There is something wrong there.. When you spend more money than 19 of 20 top military spending countries combined...

Not only is it despicable, it is laughable.

So to say "entitlements" should be on the table for military spending to be on the table is just a ridiculous manner to have a debate.

It's like the people who cry about a draw down of nuclear weapons. That not only makes us more secure, it makes dealing with other countries easier.. How many nuclear bombs does a country need? Maybe a dozen or two... That would wipe out an entire world and then some.

There is something to a military in having weapons, and a stockpile. But there is a point where the bulk becomes not only unnecessary, it drains on parts of the country that has nothing to do with military

 

[luckyluchiano]

Wait did my dude said he had 255k in FEDERAL student loans? LOLOLOLOL

Like on the real I`m pretty sure gov doesnt give that much money out, because then what would be the use of private loans unless your credit was jacked up or someone got you a crazy rate.

 

[utvol23]

The maximum federal subsidized loans you can get is 5500. unsubsidized is 7000, and that's for the year! You can probably get 2000 more if you qualify for some sort of special condition. The maximum you can take throughout your academic tenure s about 60k. All the other loans would have to be private.
And 8.5 is also untrue. There are interest rates as low as 3.4%. I'de say a student who has little to no credit is getting a lot of money for quite a steal.
http://www2.ed.gov/offices/OSFAP/DirectLoan/calc.html
But my question is how is it possible you received 300k in federal student loans? What school allowed that to happen?

You must be talking about undergrad. Look at you own link regarding graduate loan rates then look at grad plus loan interest rates.

Also I am looking at my Stafford loans right now 6.8% and 8.5 %.
This is the rate info for just two of my loans

STAFFORD
Interest Rate: 6.800%
Principal Balance: $38,800.75
Accrued Interest: $1,083.56
Fees: $0.00
Outstanding Balance: $39,884.31

STAFFORD
Interest Rate: 6.800%
Principal Balance: $35,936.56
Accrued Interest: $3,378.67
Fees: $0.00
Outstanding Balance: $39,315.23

So come again how I am not paying those interest rates?

And you dont consider that interest rate as insane. My friends who graduated med school a few years befor me are paying 2.5%

You think the govt is paying more than 6.8% making those loans to me I think not

 

[thepointgod]

Medical School is expensive. I paid my own way through undergrad with no loans
Subsidized loans does not mean that you dont have to pay the money back it just means that you dont pay interest while in school where as unsub starts accruing interest from the moment its disbursed. and you can only do 8500 sub vs 30k unsub.
Who ever said getting a loan was a right. Its the same as a mortgage or car loan you have to pay it back. You dont benefit from it other than being able to gain the education. Borrowing money at ridiculous interest rates is not a social program IMO.
Getting free money for food is an entitlement.
Trust me the govt isnt losing money loaning me the money

Your argument is, basically, someone gave me an interest-free loan, but they weren't going to be doing anything with that money anyway, so they're not actually losing anything, and I'm eventually going to pay it back, so therefore, I've gained nothing and no one has given me a handout.

I don't think you understand how subsidized loans work. The government IS indeed losing money while loaning you the money. They are giving you an interest-free loan while you're in school, which is giving you FREE money. If you're not paying the interest, someone else is paying it for you (the government).

.

 

[ccastro02]

You must be talking about undergrad
Also I am looking at my Stafford loans right now 6.8% and 8.5 %.

Regardless, i find it so hard to beleive that the fed govt would lend you 300k for school. It just doesn't make sense. I mean do the math. It would cost the govt $300,000,000 to send only 1000 medical students to school. 1000 is probably the number of medical students that graduate from colombia alone. That is completely irresponsible of the government to do. That is just mind blowing.

Just did some quick research and it seems that there are about 16,000 medical students that graduate a year. What if 8000 of those medical students decided to default on their 300k loans? That alone would bring us right back into a recession. It would only take 8000 medical students to bring us back into a recession. Just mind blown.

 

[True Blues]

Medical School is expensive. I paid my own way through undergrad with no loans
Subsidized loans does not mean that you dont have to pay the money back it just means that you dont pay interest while in school where as unsub starts accruing interest from the moment its disbursed. and you can only do 8500 sub vs 30k unsub.
Who ever said getting a loan was a right. Its the same as a mortgage or car loan you have to pay it back. You dont benefit from it other than being able to gain the education. Borrowing money at ridiculous interest rates is not a social program IMO.
Getting free money for food is an entitlement.
Trust me the govt isnt losing money loaning me the money

Your argument is, basically, someone gave me an interest-free loan, but they weren't going to be doing anything with that money anyway, so they're not actually losing anything, and I'm eventually going to pay it back, so therefore, I've gained nothing and no one has given me a handout.

I don't think you understand how subsidized loans work. The government IS indeed losing money while loaning you the money. They are giving you an interest-free loan while you're in school, which is giving you FREE money. If you're not paying the interest, someone else is paying it for you (the government).

.

^ This.

 

[utvol23]

Your argument is, basically, someone gave me an interest-free loan, but they weren't going to be doing anything with that money anyway, so they're not actually losing anything, and I'm eventually going to pay it back, so therefore, I've gained nothing and no one has given me a handout.
I don't think you understand how subsidized loans work. The government IS indeed losing money while loaning you the money. They are giving you an interest-free loan while you're in school, which is giving you FREE money. If you're not paying the interest, someone else is paying it for you (the government).
.

Ok so for four years I dont pay interest on about 36K then after that I start paying 6.8%. but while i am in school I am paying interest to the govt on 220K lol yeah that is free money for sure lol. The interest free part is on a very small portion and for a very short period of time over the course of the loan.

 

[utvol23]

Regardless, i find it so hard to beleive that the fed govt would lend you 300k for school. It just doesn't make sense. I mean do the math. It would cost the govt $300,000,000 to send only 1000 medical students to school. 1000 is probably the number of medical students that graduate from colombia alone. That is completely irresponsible of the government to do. That is just mind blowing.

The govt isnt spending that money they are loaning that money which has to be paid back. SO the 1000 medical students before that graduated IE me are now paying the money back with lots and lots of interest.

 

[utvol23]

So are car loans and mortgages handouts as well? I mean the bank could be investing that money elsewhere rather than providing a loan.

 

[ccastro02]

The govt isnt spending that money they are loaning that money which has to be paid back. SO the 1000 medical students before that graduated IE me are now paying the money back with lots and lots of interest.

You do know that that according to what you're saying if 8000 of the 16,000 graduating medical students in the U.S were to ever default on their loans, that alone can bring us back into a recession.

 

[essential1]

I think the whole conversation could have been avoided if Rusty had said TAP or pell grants as opposed to Free College Loans.

 

[ccastro02]

So are car loans and mortgages handouts as well? I mean the bank could be investing that money elsewhere rather than providing a loan.

Yea and when the housing bubble popped it brought us to the great recession. 300k for a student out of school is irresponsible lending. That's pretty much a bubble ready to pop. Like i said all it takes is 8000 medical students to default on their loans and we're back into a recession.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Ok so for four years I dont pay interest on about 36K then after that I start paying 6.8%. but while i am in school I am paying interest to the govt on 220K lol yeah that is free money for sure lol. The interest free part is on a very small portion and for a very short period of time over the course of the loan.

You are still getting free money brah.

And others get grants too. Student loans cost money

 

[essential1]

So are car loans and mortgages handouts as well? I mean the bank could be investing that money elsewhere rather than providing a loan.

Yea and when the housing bubble popped it brought us to the great recession. 300k for a student out of school is irresponsible lending. That's pretty much a bubble ready to pop. Like i said all it takes is 8000 medical students to default on their loans and we're back into a recession.

Well you can't legally default on your student loans..

 

[thepointgod]

So are car loans and mortgages handouts as well? I mean the bank could be investing that money elsewhere rather than providing a loan.

If the car loans and mortgages were subsidized by the government, then yes, the subsidized portion is a handout.

You could have easily opted to take all private loans, but the fact is, the subsidized government loan is more attractive because it doesn't accrue interest while you're in school. Clearly, any logical person would take the subsidized loan if it's available to them--but then just don't stand there and pretend you didn't get a handout.

The fact that you're paying a high interest rate after graduation, or that you have accumulated an outrageous amount of student debt that you will be paying back for the next 30 years, has nothing to do with the fact that you did get a handout.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I think the whole conversation could have been avoided if Rusty had said TAP or pell grants as opposed to Free College Loans.

I said grants so in my follow up responses, and I never said "free" student loans

But even if, in the original comment he took offense to, I was just saying that different people that benefit from different social programs always talk **** about one they don't benefit directly from. It had nothing to do with comparing entitlements

 

[utvol23]

Grants are a totally different story I was referring to Student Loans, Rusty if you had made the comparison of grants then as essential said we wouldnt have been having this discussion.

 

[utvol23]

Well you can't legally default on your student loans..

Yep no bankruptcy on student loans.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Grants are a totally different story I was referring to Student LOANS

Smh. Brah what is your problem really?

I never compared student loans to welfare or food stamps.

Plus some of these "loans" are subsidized by the government. That mean they pay a portion for you.

I really don't see what you are trying to accomplish other than make everyone agree that the social program you benefit from cost the country way less than welfare and food stamps, because you gotta pay back the money

If that's all you want.........Then fine, you're right.

But it has nothing to do with my original point

 

[thepointgod]

Grants are a totally different story I was referring to Student Loans, Rusty if you had made the comparison of grants then as essential said we wouldnt have been having this discussion.

No. Student loans are equally as damaging to your argument, so long as they are subsidized in any form by the government.

 

[utvol23]

The interest I saved on the small portion of subsidized loans while in school is miniscule in comparison to the amount of interest i have accrued since i graduated on both the subsidized and unsub loans.

 

[thepointgod]

The interest I saved on the small portion of subsidized loans while in school is miniscule in comparison to the amount of interest i have accrued since i graduated on both the subsidized and unsub loans.

You're still missing the point.

 

[utvol23]

No. Student loans are equally as damaging to your argument, so long as they are subsidized in any form by the government.

No they are not. Food stamps are a free hand out with no expectation to repay. Subsidized loans still have to be repayed and with interest unless somehow as soon as you graduated youa re able to pay off the entire amount still you are paying back the principal for food stamps you repay NOTHING.

THE GOVT will more than make back the money they loaned me by the time i pay off the loans what does the govt get back from the money given out for food stamps?
That being said I am not opposed to food stamps at all i think many people wind up in positions where they need them but the comparison to student loans is far from equatable

 

[utvol23]

The deficit is not 16 trillion, that's the national debt. The budget deficit is around 1.4 trillion.
And all this talk of "entitlements" specific social programs remind me of a George Charlin quote: "Have you noticed that their stuff is **** and your **** is stuff"
You go the kid who got students loans saying food stamps should stop
The person getting social security arguing against Obamacare
The who was once on welfare complaining about student loans
Everyone hates socialism, except the when socialism works for them
And I agree that all of Bushes tax cuts need to end eventually

The bolded sentence to me is comparing student loans to food stamps. If you had said the kid who got a grant saying food stamps should be stopped I will give you that comparison.