***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Nike Jordan]

The name "Jeb" comes from John Ellis Bush, his initials. 

That's right, John Ellis Bush Bush. 

 

 

[RustyShackleford]

Huh, seriously?

I thought the B was form his last name.

Always thought his name was John Ellis Bush. No extra Bush

No way poppa bear Bush played him like that

 

[secretzofwar]

It sounds like you have no idea what Bernie's policy suggestions are, nor do you know what communism is.

Bernie can point to tons of countries there his proposed policies work. Even to points in America's history

Libertarians can point to none.

Supply side economics and austerity have proven to be out right failures

Taking money from people and having the government inefficiently allocate it is socialism/communism. There's really no reason to differentiate, as they end up with the same consequences: the ruling class benefits and everyone else is oppressed.

Please tell me how Bernie plans to attract top talent to the United States when he intends to INCREASE taxes on corporations (which are often now domiciling overseas due to asinine US tax policy) and make it a much more hostile environment for the wealthy. The last thing we should want as a country is to incentivize entrepreneurs, corporations, etc. to start businesses in other countries.

Providing benefits for workers are fine-- as for free public college-- I don't know that free public college is even a good idea. Also, frankly, if you deserve to go to college for free, you will under the current system.

Much of the problem with student loan debt is the inability for kids to see what the value of skills acquired at colleges are. Sure, it's fun to go party at an SEC school or Big Ten school for 4 years, but your degree in ceramics isn't getting you a job.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I will respond tomorrow when I'm in front a keyboard. On mobile right now.

You might want to prepare a second argument brah. Because what you posted was weak and if I don't do it first, someone else gonna shred it to pieces

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[essential1]

Taking money from people and having the government inefficiently allocate it is socialism/communism. There's really no reason to differentiate, as they end up with the same consequences: the ruling class benefits and everyone else is oppressed.

Please tell me how Bernie plans to attract top talent to the United States when he intends to INCREASE taxes on corporations (which are often now domiciling overseas due to asinine US tax policy) and make it a much more hostile environment for the wealthy. The last thing we should want as a country is to incentivize entrepreneurs, corporations, etc. to start businesses in other countries.

Providing benefits for workers are fine-- as for free public college-- I don't know that free public college is even a good idea. Also, frankly, if you deserve to go to college for free, you will under the current system.

Much of the problem with student loan debt is the inability for kids to see what the value of skills acquired at colleges are. Sure, it's fun to go party at an SEC school or Big Ten school for 4 years, but your degree in ceramics isn't getting you a job.

Yes. There is a need to differentiate, because they are not the same thing.

It's like saying sex with a condom is like sex without a condom. They are both sex (socialism & communism do both have varying degrees of government intervention), but they are not the same. To say they are the same (sex with a condom vs. sex without a condom / communism vs. socialism), would show you don't know what you're talking about.

Soooooo only the ruling class benefits in socialism..... You do know that income inequality is the largest it has been in 80 years right? You also know that when the government was most involved in planning after WWII, was the largest growth of the middle class right? Since 1979, the top 1% has grown 281%, while the bottom 40% has only grown 40% combined.

Corporate Revenue Tax is a third of what it was in the 1950s. And unless you lower it to an obscene amount that this country can't afford, you will not be able to compete. Why? Because you'll never compete with countries that do not follow the same worker laws, environmental laws as we do. Want to have workers for 12 hours a day, pay them a dollar a day, dump toxic waste into the water and pollute the atmosphere with no safe guards. Can't do that here, but there are plenty of places that you can do it. A corporation is looking to maximize profit, and if it suits them to go elsewhere, they will. And no matter what we do, there will always be a more business friendly country.

You know how you get them to keep their business here, If they are a US company, and they relocate overseas, you tax them so much to import their goods back here that they can't even rationalize leaving. Because unless you do that, or don't tax them at all... You will never be the most financially optimal country for a business.

The only thing I'm hearing from you is give to the top, and the rest will prosper. We've done it, it doesn't work. It has been proven that it doesn't work, and anyone with a rational economic mind will laugh at the idea that it works.

You have a very skewed perspective of college. Doing exceptional in high school doesn't guarantee scholarships, nor does it while in college. College tuition increases every year, especially at public universities because they are losing funding, due to a rapidly shrinking tax revenue base, specifically at the top. And get out of here with your ceramics nonsense. There's a litany of worthwhile degrees that people get that enter into a really tough market. I.e. Education.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Welp

 

[blco02]

I've never gotten a job from a poor person.

The top 1% already pay 45% of the taxes in this country. How much more would you socialists like the government to confiscate to be inefficiently spent/wasted by Washingston bureaucrats?

 

[Betonblck]

I've never gotten a job from a poor person.

The top 1% already pay 45% of the taxes in this country. How much more would you socialists like the government to confiscate to be inefficiently spent/wasted by Washingston bureaucrats?

I've never gotten a job from a rich person so...

 

[jchambers]

I've never gotten a job from a poor person.

The top 1% already pay 45% of the taxes in this country. How much more would you socialists like the government to confiscate to be inefficiently spent/wasted by Washingston bureaucrats?

I've never gotten a job from a rich person so...

 

[RustyShackleford]

I've never gotten a job from a poor person.

The top 1% already pay 45% of the taxes in this country. How much more would you socialists like the government to confiscate to be inefficiently spent/wasted by Washingston bureaucrats?

Like on tax cuts for the rich that create no jobs

Or on pointless wars

Or on farm subsidies

Or on corporate welfare

Or let's talk about when rich in this country crashed in the economy, and got bailed out.

So how much longer are conservatives gonna push economic policies that have failed the country, time and time again

 

[essential1]

Because if you give a personal tax break.. They are going to spend it at Best Buy or hire new workers. Please. That money sits away and makes more money to the detriment of all of us. Not saying they are wrong to save their money, but the multiplier of tax dollars for the wealthy is incredibly low. Hell you get just a good of a multiplier if not better from food stamps.

Tax revenue as share of GDP 20% in 1945. 10% 2011
Income tax 94% 1945 to 39% 2014. But as we all know effective tax rate was far below that 94%, even then, rather than raising taxes let's make 39% actually 39%.

Taxes on investments 25% 1945 to 15% 2011.

Total percent of all estates subject to federal tax 2.14% to 0.14%. 1945 to 2011.

Income tax as a share of total income of those with $1mil in income 26.8% in 1992 to 22.8% in 2007.

Corporate tax revenue as share of GDP 7.2%
1945 to 1.2% in 2011.

Tax breaks and tax loopholes $526.1bil in 1982 to $1.02tril in 2010.

We dismantled union membership in this country to help employers. We've gone from about 25% union membership in 1970 to 11.3% in 2012. Productivity is up 80% (meaning workers are doing almost double the job they'd be doing 35 years ago), wages have stayed relatively stagnant. Top 1% wages have gone up 250%.

57% of the private workforce are employed through small businesses. 98% of all small business owners make less than $250K.

It isn't about punishing success. It's about rectifying a system that got so far out of hand that only a select few get almost all of the output, no matter how much input is produced by the overwhelming masses.

But of course, the top 5% have it so hard in this country. How do they manage?!?!

 

[elcatfisho]

Well I'll be damned if you can't get a job after studying ceramics. Wrote a 4000+ lab report on zinc oxide. **** is black magic.

 

[jchambers]

Crazy old Bern.

 

[essential1]

One would point out that the higher default rate is partially to be blamed by higher interest rate.

There are several reasons to lower student loan interest rates. That would actually benefit all parties involved.

 

[jchambers]

One would point out that the higher default rate is partially to be blamed by higher interest rate.

Several reasons to lower student loan interest rates.

Soooo... it makes perfect sense that the rates are higher.

 

[essential1]

One would point out that the higher default rate is partially to be blamed by higher interest rate.

Several reasons to lower student loan interest rates.

Soooo... it makes perfect sense that the rates are higher.

The higher interest rates make the likelihood of default much higher.

So if higher interest rates are a reason for increased default rate, then the interest is too high.

The loan companies are creating a significant amount of the risk themselves.

At a Lower interest rate, you can increase the time that students are paying back loans. Which would still allow you to make your money off top on interest, at the same time, make it feasible enough that students can stay on top of paying their loans.

Also outside industries should hope that student loan interest gets lowered. Specifically the car industry and real estate. Those are two major industries impacted by the inability of college graduates to stay on top of their loans. Trouble paying your loans immediately takes you out of buying a new car or owning a home.

 

[jchambers]

One would point out that the higher default rate is partially to be blamed by higher interest rate.

Several reasons to lower student loan interest rates.

Soooo... it makes perfect sense that the rates are higher.

The higher interest rates make the likelihood of default much higher.

So if higher interest rates are a reason for increased default rate, then the interest is too high.

The loan companies are creating a significant amount of the risk themselves.

At a Lower interest rate, you can increase the time that students are paying back loans. Which would still allow you to make your money off top on interest, at the same time, make it feasible enough that students can stay on top of paying their loans.

Also outside industries should hope that student loan interest gets lowered. Specifically the car industry and real estate. Those are two major industries impacted by the inability of college graduates to stay on top of their loans.

So it makes sense that a loan without collateral has a higher interest rate than one with collateral.

 

[Nike Jordan]

Ain't but two types of Republicans, millionaires and suckers.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Student loans are backed by the federal government, can't be discharged through bankruptcy and the federal government shouldn't looking to make a profit off of students through interest.

I fall short of staying they should be below mortgage and car loans given certain rates but they definitely be way lower. Especially since the returns to from a college education are still high enough that the federal government will gain more revenue taxing that same person with a college degree, than if they didn't have it.

And the more money young people have the more likely they will use that money to consume goods, which helps the economy.

Private students loans do have very high interest rates, which they should, but then again these loans like most mortgages and car loans don't have unique qualities of federal student loans

So Bernie is not all that crazy

 

[Benny Hinn]

Can't creditors garnish your wages if you default your student loans?

So you guys don't think student loans are a problem? Especially the predatory ways private loans operate

 

[SC kid]

BRUH

 

[nazdrowie]

he kilted that bernie sanders impersonation

 

[frink85]

^^ "he's cool, he's the song of the summer...he's trap queen by fetty wap"

 

[utvol23]

All I had to hear from Bernie is that he wants to SUBSTANTIALLY raise tax rates on high income earners along with raising rates across the board.