Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed

You can argue that Goku with the Kaio Ken x4 multiplier is stronger than Vegeta 
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I stay team Vegeta though 
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Vegeta was stronger than Goku

Kaioken is a technique. Not a transformation. We been over this.

Vegeta's base power level was higher than Goku's. Making Vegeta technically "stronger" than Goku.


Goku's ATTACK overpowered Vegeta's. Not his sheer power.
 
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PRIME said:
Vegeta was stronger than Goku

Kaioken is a technique. Not a transformation. We been over this.

Vegeta's base power level was higher than Goku's. Making Vegeta technically "stronger" than Goku.


Goku's ATTACK overpowered Vegeta's. Not his sheer power.
Click to expand...

Oh word? Vegeta seems to disagree.


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Fun fact: this is the first of many "Vegeta whines like a 4 year old" panels within the original manga
 
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He disagrees because he just launched his strongest attack and it didn't work. Of course he'd assume it was due to a difference in power level. It's not like he knows how kaioken works 
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We literally watch an an entire arc of Black finding out how strong he is as he goes along and improves. We're making way too much of this at this point
 
Yall killing me. By yall logic Freeza>>>>Goku because he's stronger than Goku's base :rofl:

Cell>>>>Gohan

Super Buu>>>>Gotenks

Yall can't exclude techniques from someone's ability to win a fight :lol: the reach is real.

So Captain Ginyu is "technically stronger" than Goku because Goku had to use Kaioken to exceed his power level?
 
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I mean Vegeta was stronger than Goku. Vegeta had to deal with a transformed Gohan, goku, and then bums like yajirobe and krillin. Vegeta would've washed Goku after he transformed into the great ape
 
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blakep267 said:
I mean Vegeta was stronger than Goku. Vegeta had to deal with a transformed Gohan, goku, and then bums like yajirobe and krillin. Vegeta would've washed Goku after he transformed into the great ape
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Ok then let's loop this back into my original point.

Goku, regardless of how you feel about strength levels, used Yonbai Kaioken to wash Vegeta's Galick gun right? Never mind that X4 Kaioken Goku is stronger than Vegeta. But the logic is there and therefore nobody questions it.

What did Trunks and Vegeta use to wash Fused Zamasu and his corny *** attack? What reason is there for them being able to overpower it?

Another example. Gohan and Cell's Kamehameha struggle. You could say Gohan was weaker but Goku stated that he believed Gohan would be able to do it if he unleashed all his ki, AND before Gohan got his arm broken he said he was ready to fight and kill Cell. So you could take that either way. But point blank it's explicit Gohan had in him enough ki to kill Cell once and for all, based on statements from both Goku and Gohan himself. The one arm gave Cell an edge, which was removed when Vegeta momentarily distracted Cell and Gohan....killed him.

So I wish dudes would stop trying to pretend Toriyama did not have a logical foundation with the power scaling in the OG. Stop chalking up Super's lack of established power levels as "lol dbz".


SUPER IS TRASH, YALL. And I'll remind yall of that every week until someone at Toei sees this thread and orders that **** cancelled in favor of something better.

#Supershadegawd
 
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He's stronger than Vegeta of the fight last for a few moments and one of them gets killed. But that's not how DBZ works. You take your opponents best hit and either you lose or you punch back. Goku would've lost against Vegetas best hit( the ape) without outside assistance.
 
blakep267 said:
I mean Vegeta was stronger than Goku. Vegeta had to deal with a transformed Gohan, goku, and then bums like yajirobe and krillin. Vegeta would've washed Goku after he transformed into the great ape
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Correction. Vegeta DID wash Goku after transforming into the Oozaru

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He arguably washed Goku beforehand in fact.
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In order to defeat Vegeta's Galick Gun, Goku was forced to push his body even further beyond its limits with a Kaio-Ken X4, which left it a wreck. He could barely move without feeling immense pain and going through muscle spasms. His energy was also pretty much gone, which is why that he had to resort to the Spirit Bomb, just as he did against Frieza on Namek at the end of the next saga. And the Spirit Bomb didn't work for Goku at the end of the day. In comparison, Vegeta not only had the Oozaru transformation left, but his body wasn't in anywhere near as bad a shape as Goku's was. Not only did he have the Oozaru in his pocket, he still had plenty of energy left to continue fighting Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe down the line. Even after being hit by a Spirit bomb he's still capable of slinging around some pretty sizeable attacks
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And he still goes on to fight Oozaru Gohan afterwards. Like, it actually takes a lot to finally get him to the point where he's crawling towards his space pod and by that time Goku had been down for a while.
 
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KingdomFlatbush said:
PRIME said:
Vegeta was stronger than Goku

Kaioken is a technique. Not a transformation. We been over this.

Vegeta's base power level was higher than Goku's. Making Vegeta technically "stronger" than Goku.


Goku's ATTACK overpowered Vegeta's. Not his sheer power.
Click to expand...

Oh word? Vegeta seems to disagree.


View media item 2223440
Fun fact: this is the first of many "Vegeta whines like a 4 year old" panels within the original manga
Click to expand...

Vegeta didn't know what the kaioken was. He didn't know it was temporary. He thought Goku was just flat out stronger than him.

Vegeta was stronger and smarter than Goku. But Goku had this technique that overpowered him.

Of course he'd be mad.

The kamehameha wave was not stronger than the galic gun when they first faced off.

The same "power scaling" that you're complaining about has been ruined ever since the kaioken was introduced.

That technique single handedly caused all these wtf power jumps. It was the first time a character instantly jumped tremendously in power to unbalance the scale set up from previous sagas.

Thus "cause dbz bro"

The kaioken makes Goku gain unfair advantages and power ups just like how Trunks and Gohans emotions, just like Hits cheap *** "improvement", just like freeza training for the first time.

If you have a problem with the power scaling in DBS, you should look back at your beloved dbz and it's many "transformations" because ever since the Cell saga these dudes been broken as hell.

DBS is just overloading the transformations and power ups in a shorter period.
 
If "because dbz" is a valid thing to say with regards to power levels, then nobody in here should get mad when the next dude comes in here and says Kid Buu>>>>Super Buu or SSJ3 Goku>>>>>Mystic Gohan

Every "x is stronger than y" or "y is momentarily stronger than z" supposition in DBZ can be explained, broken down, and logically examined. Point blank.
 
Kid buu is not stronger than Super Buu

But Kid Buu would beat Super Buu.

The same way Goku beat Vegeta the very first time.

Kids Buu possesses qualities such as his rawness and ruthlessness that Would result in him overpowering Super Buu
 
PRIME said:
Kid buu is not stronger than Super Buu

But Kid Buu would beat Super Buu.

The same way Goku beat Vegeta the very first time.

Kids Buu possesses qualities such as his rawness and ruthlessness that Would result in him overpowering Super Buu
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Am I wrong though?

If Super Buu was so strong and big and bad, he would have been the last Buu they went up against.

Kid Buu was way more dangerous than Super Buu. Which made him a much bigger threat.

Super Buu was just a powered up Majin Buu with Cell's intelligence and cockiness.

I think you're so let down and upset with the series because 1, you're expecting too much out of it, and 2, you're taking everything that happens to literal to the old show.


That old show is done.

The same way they wen't from a more traditional martial arts style fighting in Dragonball to the transformation overload in DBZ, now in Super its a whole new ball game.
 
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PRIME said:
Am I wrong though?

If Super Buu was so strong and big and bad, he would have been the last Buu they went up against.

Kid Buu was way more dangerous than Super Buu. Which made him a much bigger threat.

Super Buu was just a powered up Majin Buu with Cell's intelligence and cockiness.
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Regular Super Buu was stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks who I'm assuming had to be close if not greater in power level to SSJ3 Goku because they were fused. 

Then after he absorbed Gotenks, Piccolo and then Mystic Gohan he was the most powerful villain ever in the DBZ universe, when Vegito took out the fat Buu, Trunks, Goten, Piccolo, and Gohan he inevitably became weaker, but the part that made him have some kind of restraint was gone when fat buu left. So he became a pure evil maniac and blew up the earth. 
 
PRIME said:
Am I wrong though?

If Super Buu was so strong and big and bad, he would have been the last Buu they went up against.
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Based on what? Why does kid buu have to be the strongest buu? Because he came last? Based on that logic because Goku was the one to finish off kid buu he must be stronger and more power ful than both mystic gohan and vegito, and we know that's not true.

The only thing that made kid buu more dangerous is that he was ruthless, crazy, and unpredictable. If you want to look at it like this, sure kid buu was more of a danger to Goku and vegeta, than super buu was go vegito. But better believe that vegito could blink kid buu into non existence.
 
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