Let's face it, Jay-Z is the bar in which we compare rappers to because he is the best. PERIOD

dland24 said:

Jay is an incredible live performer

That sentence alone is what makes Jay the far superior rapper to me....at least musically.

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Can't be serious. I've seen Jay four times. EASILY one of the worst performers I have ever seen. Not to mention, he has the worst set list every time.

G-Unit & 50 >>> Roc a fella & Jay
R. Kelly >>> Jay
Blueprint 3 tour.....zzzzzzzzzz
Kanye West >>> Jay Z

Ballerific703 said:

dland24 said:

Jay is an incredible live performer

That sentence alone is what makes Jay the far superior rapper to me....at least musically.

Click to expand...

Can't be serious. I've seen Jay four times. EASILY one of the worst performers I have ever seen. Not to mention, he has the worst set list every time.

G-Unit & 50 >>> Roc a fella & Jay
R. Kelly >>> Jay
Blueprint 3 tour.....zzzzzzzzzz
Kanye West >>> Jay Z

Click to expand...

This is without a doubt the most shocking thing I have read in this thread, I have literally never heard someone say hes a bad live performer, even people that dont like dude. All staning aside Hov is the best live performer I have seen. My age can b used as a factor here cause a lot of older artists weren't touring as often as he was, but his shows are always packed with energy, crowd involvement, good song choice, and most importantly, the track isn't playing in the background while he's rapping. That's an automatic fail in my book if someone does that. It shows 0 effort and it's disgusting.

KanYe forgets the lyrics to his own rhymes too much for me. He's always up there mumbling over the parts he forgets

Antidope said:

Ballerific703 said:

dland24 said:

Jay is an incredible live performer

That sentence alone is what makes Jay the far superior rapper to me....at least musically.

Click to expand...

Can't be serious. I've seen Jay four times. EASILY one of the worst performers I have ever seen. Not to mention, he has the worst set list every time.

G-Unit & 50 >>> Roc a fella & Jay
R. Kelly >>> Jay
Blueprint 3 tour.....zzzzzzzzzz
Kanye West >>> Jay Z

Click to expand...

This is without a doubt the most shocking thing I have read in this thread, I have literally never heard someone say hes a bad live performer, even people that dont like dude. All staning aside Hov is the best live performer I have seen. My age can b used as a factor here cause a lot of older artists weren't touring as often as he was, but his shows are always packed with energy, crowd involvement, good song choice, and most importantly, the track isn't playing in the background while he's rapping. That's an automatic fail in my book if someone does that. It shows 0 effort and it's disgusting.

KanYe forgets the lyrics to his own rhymes too much for me. He's always up there mumbling over the parts he forgets

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Dude's post doesnt even warrant a response bro. Absolutely laughable statement. Especially coming from a Nas stan. Comparing live performances of Jay to Nas is like comparing LeBron James to a middle school bench player. Cant believe dude is trying to say 50 Cent is a better live performer.

^ never said NaS was a better performer. 50 & G-Unit were definitely better on the Roc the Mic tour. R. Kelly was better on the Best of Both Worlds tour. Blueprint 3 tour put me to sleep. Watch the Throne tour was all about Kanye. My man just stands there (which is fine because MOST rappers do) but he has no energy. Crowds get into it which is cool. The absolute WORST set list of any artist with a catalogue that big.

Antidope said:

This is without a doubt the most shocking thing I have read in this thread, I have literally never heard someone say hes a bad live performer, even people that dont like dude. All staning aside Hov is the best live performer I have seen. My age can b used as a factor here cause a lot of older artists weren't touring as often as he was, but his shows are always packed with energy, crowd involvement, good song choice, and most importantly, the track isn't playing in the background while he's rapping. That's an automatic fail in my book if someone does that. It shows 0 effort and it's disgusting.

KanYe forgets the lyrics to his own rhymes too much for me. He's always up there mumbling over the parts he forgets

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Have you ever seen Jay live?

What songs would you want him to do? He does all his hits and sprinkles in some of the songs that fans want to hear. He's not going to get in front of 30,000 people and rap Never Change or D'evils, they're not well known amongst the the casual listener. I've always gotten my money's worth out his performances and I can only think of one time where I went in with the intention of hearing a song and didn't hear it (Murder to Excellence on the WTT tour, they did every song on the album except that one it puzzled me). I'm curious as to what songs you were expecting to hear during a set of his and didn't hear. There are a few albums that he doesn't pull from but according to NT, those are his "wack albums" so yeah....

misterzik i feel you bro...jusst different opinions that all..u raise good points...lets call a spade a spade it just is what it is..

ive seen hov perform 4x as well, ive seen nas live..seen X live...never saw 50 tho, sure it would be an ill show...

ive never walked away from a jay concert dissapointed..mary j tour and bp3 tour were some of the best ive been too...when the curtains opened and jeezy and hov started as real as it gets, the building went STUPID...

never heard anyone say jay aint the illest live performer...only thing comparable in my eyes was seeing DMX...thats a whooooole nother kinda show tho..lol...

i think jay is the best, yall think hes overrated..thats cool...nobodies right or wrong...we can all still be friends..lol

illphillip said:

Is it me, or is there a strange line that separates one Jay fan from another when one refers to him a "Hov" and the other simply refers to him as Jay?

It's almost like you can tell one is brainwashed on the strength of Jay constantly referring to himself as "Hov".

Just a thought.

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Man, I purposely don't mention this issue. I see it and there's effort made to ignore it. At least someone else notices and brought it up. Lot of nicknames out there, the most ridiculous one to call him would be that but I figure that's just shows their commitment to dude.
I still think it's arrogance but we can agree to disagree on that too

But yeah I'll agree that throughout these kind of threads you've never gone overboard with disrespect in these arguments/debates and that's how it should be. Yeah the whole link up with this and that rapper knock on him is weak when you stretch the list.

Wait seriously? I've never seen an issue with calling the guy Hov, its his most recognizable nickname at this point now that he stopped calling himself J****. The only other real option would be to call him JAY-Z every time cause names like Iceberg Slim and Lucky Lefty arent as closely associated with him as Hov/Hova is. I'm curious as to why its an issue, is it the religious aspect of it? Please explain, I am very curious about this one.

nothing wrong with calling him hov... they're basically saying that the ones who go the hardest for him in these types of posts tend to call him hov instead of jay

i agree and he's my favorite rapper

I've seen a lot of artists live & Jay is definitely among some of the best... His crowd control is great & the energy is always there. The only complaint I do have of him is I wish he did less hits & more tracks that aren't singles. I mean I get it... But at the same time I wanna hear Allure, Imaginary Player, So Ghetto, A Week Ago, etc. He'll pull out a few gems every show... Just gotta get lucky :\

As an ambassador for hip hop Jay hasnt done much for the culture except bring in and usher in the era of the corporate rapper that was extremely detrimental to the culture at large.When rappers started,doing shoes,liquor and clothing lines and doing everything but producing quality music. if Jay Z is supposed to be the face of hip hop and the GOAT dudes actions ushered in an era of rapid commercialzation that pretty much made the culture more product oriented than content oriented. i wouldnt factor this in if he didnt make this one of his major points and a part of his image and content .Content wise jays subject matter is quite shallow compared to others. Jay Z has had the most successful career as far as rappers go but he isnt the best. Nas ,Ice Cube and Scarface are 3 men I mention ahead of him

dland24 said:

View media item 262570

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OK theres one.. Anyone else?

Questions for Jay fans:
Can you name 5 songs (not on KC) that Jay has made that are wack to you?

Can you name a good Jay song that Jay (alone) made good?

Jay has remained relevant for so long right? Has he done, this on his own? No help from Neptunes, Just Blaze, Kanye, various artist?

Jay has had money since day 1 of his rap career (according to him). Why do you think Jay changed his Image/style up so much?

I will not respond to these answers. I am genuinely curious.

BigRockford said:

OK theres one.. Anyone else?

Questions for Jay fans:
1 Can you name 5 songs (not on KC) that Jay has made that are wack to you?

2  Can you name a good Jay song that Jay (alone) made good?

3  Jay has remained relevant for so long right? Has he done, this on his own? No help from Neptunes, Just Blaze, Kanye, various artist?

4 Jay has had money since day 1 of his rap career (according to him). Why do you think Jay changed his Image/style up so much?

I will not respond to these answers. I am genuinely curious.

Click to expand...

ill play

1. you me him her, sunshine, bonnie nd clyde, pop 4 roc, money aint a thang..

2.diamonds wit kanye, dear summer,dynasty intro, week ago.hypnotiq..never let you down..take me alive (young guns album).etc etc...a million more

3. other than the neptunes, one can argue jay made just blaze and kanye...bet the price for a blaze/ye beat went up 10x after the blueprint...

4. "ima tell you like banks told me cuz go head switch the style up, and if they hate then let em hate and watch the money pile up" -50.  

   -dude was the pioneer of change..the throwback thing..now every rapper raps about audemare, maybachs..not to mention he changed the sound of rap in the early 2000s       "everybody looping up soul, its like they tryna make the bp2 before hov"

and i think instead of asking who is 27 up and think hov is the greatest is a bad question...cause i doubt many people are 27 up in this post anyway..jay fan or not..

Can you name 5 songs (not on KC) that Jay has made that are wack to you?

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1.  I Know What Girls Like--Vol 1

2.  Can I Get A--Vol. 2......yeah I know it was a hit but I still don't really care for it.

3.  S. Carter--Vol. 3

4.  Pop 4 Roc--Vol. 3

5.  Squeeze 1st--Dynasty Album

Can you name a good Jay song that Jay (alone) made good?

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Just responding to the question as if, meaning from beginning to the end nothing that I can think of.  No rapper besides Kanye and that's debatable since we know he uses ghostwriters for his raps and Eminem since he is known to produce tracks as I believe has completely made a song, or even a good song by ALONE, with the key word being alone.  That would mean the rapper would have to produce the track and write the lyrics as well, double assignment.  That means just about every rapper has not been able to make a song good alone as you are trying to indicate.  Not Rakim since he had Eric B., not Nas since he had Premo and Large Professor, not Tupac since he had Dr. Dre, not Ghostface since he had RZA, not Biggie since he had Puff and other producers, not Jay since he had had Premo, Kanye, and Just Blaze, not 50 cause he had Dr. Dre, so on and so forth. 

Every rapper has had somebody working with them to some degree helping in the process, it just depends on what degree.  I don't think anybody wants to purchase an entire album of a rapper spitting a capella for an entire 60 mins or so, or hearing a rapper on the radio with no beat, just the rapper spitting bars.  It doesn't work that way champ.  See this is what I was referring to earlier when I said dudes need to step it their debating skills and think before they start typing here on the forum.  It's like you dudes just write down the first thing that pops in your head without truly selecting your words carefully from beginning to end, so quick to be heard or voice your opinion with nothing of value to bring to the table or discuss.  That's alright though champ, it's patience that allows a person like me to deal with or entertain a person like you.  We're all family here, and we are helpers one another.

Jay has had money since day 1 of his rap career (according to him). Why do you think Jay changed his Image/style up so much?

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How do you believe he changed his style??

Large Professor made a classic album called "Breaking Atoms" damn near by his self. Those 2 other dudes were in Main Source because their mom managed the group. They were just weak DJs.

"Lookin' At The Front Door"

Though he obviously had some help on "Live At The BBQ".

Nas first appearance though

Sorry for the digression. Carry on.

BigRockford said:

OK theres one.. Anyone else?

Questions for Jay fans:
Can you name 5 songs (not on KC) that Jay has made that are wack to you?

Can you name a good Jay song that Jay (alone) made good?

Jay has remained relevant for so long right? Has he done, this on his own? No help from Neptunes, Just Blaze, Kanye, various artist?

Jay has had money since day 1 of his rap career (according to him). Why do you think Jay changed his Image/style up so much?

I will not respond to these answers. I am genuinely curious.

Click to expand...

-Sweet, So Ambitious, History, Ghetto Techno, Party People.

-Young Black and Gifted, Show You how, D'Evils, Dear Summer, Grammy Family, J**** my *****, I Hear the People Talking, Lyrical Exercise, Dynasty Intro, S.Dot Collection Outro, Soon You'll Understand, this can go on forever,  I just hit shuffle and pulled songs...

-I dont agree with the the notion that producers are helping out rappers to that much a degree. At the end of the day lyrics take precedent over the beats, and a rapper could have the hottest beats of all time, if you're not spitting good bars, no one will listen, beats can only go so far. If you really wanted to take it there, JAY-Z made Just Blaze and KanYe household names, KanYe in particular, so it only makes sense that they supply him with their best beats, because they know that he will do them justice and help them expand their clientele and brand. I was always with the school of thought that the rapper/producer relationship is mutual, and if I had to lean towards one side to give more credit, its going to be the rapper the majority of the time. To say that producers have been basically carrying Hov through his career his is crazy. In regards to the features comment, you make it seem as if these same people that have been on song with him dont want to be on these songs. Being on a song Hov not only guarantees a good feature verse, but gives you a major cosign and exposure that not many other rappers can give you.

-Its called growth of a person. If JAY-Z was still rapping about moving weight all the time, the same people would be complaining and saying "Look at this guy, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, hanging around the President and still carrying on as if hes on the block moving keys" and you know thats true. He's grown as a person, so its only right that it shows in his music. His music has always been personal and true to self, so when he became a mogul, its only natural that he starts putting out more luxury rap because thats what his life is about now. Hes always had money yeah, but hundreds of millions of dollars? Enough money to even own a fraction of a professional sports team? Those are two totally different levels of having money. Before anyone mentions it, yes theres still a drug reference here and there, but theres no problem with that either, its a part of who he is. Just because hes who is know doesnt mean he should completely ignore who he was back then. I'm guessing thats what you were referring too, but I dont consider that change, hes not the same guy at 43 that he was at 26, you cant expect him to be, just like you arent the same person you were at 18, life changes you.

Antidope said:

-I dont agree with the the notion that producers are helping out rappers to that much a degree. At the end of the day lyrics take precedent over the beats, and a rapper could have the hottest beats of all time, if you're not spitting good bars, no one will listen, beats can only go so far.

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You must think it's '89.

illphillip said:

Antidope said:

-I dont agree with the the notion that producers are helping out rappers to that much a degree. At the end of the day lyrics take precedent over the beats, and a rapper could have the hottest beats of all time, if you're not spitting good bars, no one will listen, beats can only go so far.

Click to expand...

You must think it's '89.

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You can certainly get away with it more in todays age, but you sure as hell cant have a career even half as long as JAY-Zs with nonstop success just riding the wave of hot beats. No way.

BigRockford said:

dland24 said:

View media item 262570

Click to expand...

OK theres one.. Anyone else?

Questions for Jay fans:
Can you name 5 songs (not on KC) that Jay has made that are wack to you?

Can you name a good Jay song that Jay (alone) made good?

Jay has remained relevant for so long right? Has he done, this on his own? No help from Neptunes, Just Blaze, Kanye, various artist?

Jay has had money since day 1 of his rap career (according to him). Why do you think Jay changed his Image/style up so much?

I will not respond to these answers. I am genuinely curious.

Click to expand...

QUESTION TO THE FOLKS WHO DONT FEEL JAY IS THE BEST

Why do yall let outlandish S!!! like this go unchecked? Just cause it supports your stance, doesnt mean it should go unchecked...

Antidope said:

illphillip said:

Antidope said:

-I dont agree with the the notion that producers are helping out rappers to that much a degree. At the end of the day lyrics take precedent over the beats, and a rapper could have the hottest beats of all time, if you're not spitting good bars, no one will listen, beats can only go so far.

Click to expand...

You must think it's '89.

Click to expand...

You can certainly get away with it more in todays age, but you sure as hell cant have a career even half as long as JAY-Zs with nonstop success just riding the wave of hot beats. No way.

Click to expand...

Word this dude cheef keef 15 minutes is already up

here's another reason why i never think jay-z is da best..so many other people shot up ahead of him, son was like mit romney

in da elections, he was always da defacto cat in da 90's because he was da only dude dropping EVERY YEAR, and alot of those albums

were CRAP compared to what was dropping at da same time.

1996, we already thoroughly discussed he had a debut in da same era where people had better albums then him.

1997, jay-z's volume 1 wasn't beating da Ma$e's Harlem world album..nope. wasn't beating Biggie's life after death, HELLZ no.wu tang forever pssh.

1998 jay-z's volume 2 wasn't beating da tidal wave known as DMX's its Dark and Hell is Hot and flesh of my flesh, and big pun's captial punishiment

1999 Jay-z's volume 3 wasn't beating da Prodigy's lyrical clinic in Mobb deep's murda muzik, Eminem's slim Shady LP..and for da back packers

Mos Def dropped black on both sides, i aint gonna hold Dre's chronic 2001 cuz we know he dont write his own raps but that album also had a huge

impact...and if you wanna keep it extra 100... Ja Rule's Venni Vetti Vecci was better then vol. 3 too. and da Ruff Ryder's vol. 1 dropped and took over

2000 da dynasty compilation that turned into jay-z's solo album isn't seeing Prodigy's HNIC, stankonia. Scarface's

last of a dying breed. Wu Tang's da WU and c'mon... marshall mather's LP

and Supreme clientele 

2001 is probably da ONLY year that might of been his, but he managed to lose to Nas with Ether, but overall stillmatic and blueprint were da best

albums that year

2002 blueprint 2 was a weak jay-z album, Nas tag teamed da market with God son and lost tapes.

2003 get rich or die trying dropped, next.

2004 as good as black album was, college dropout came out, Cam'ron's purple haze dropped..jay-z wasn't da clean favorite.

fast foward to kingdom come, american gangster, blueprint 3, watch da throne, for da exception of american gangster is jay-z a shell of his

former self.

now tell me, how has he been da best when he's never really dominated a single year?

ninjahood said:

now tell me, how has he been da best when he's never really dominated a single year?

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dmx, mase, and mobb deep fell off soon after that... dominating a year doesnt make u great... dominating an entire generation spanning multiple era does

MusicalExcellence said:

ninjahood said:

now tell me, how has he been da best when he's never really dominated a single year?

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dmx, mase, and mobb deep fell off soon after that... dominating a year doesnt make u great... dominating an entire generation spanning multiple era does

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LL cool J beats jay-z doing that too., now what?

^ damn good argument