Official 2013 NBA Offseason Thread

[duba169]

I didn't say they were OKC cheap. But miller played a role in those championships. I saw him rise whenever battier was off. I saw him go insane in both finals. He was a serious tool that was used for the playoffs. Much more useful than Perkins who would be addition by subtraction.

 

[antidope]

They're still in the luxury tax and have been the last 3 yrs. Amnestying Miller saves them almost 17million in salary and tax the next 2 seasons, for an oft injured player who really isn't worth it.

Cheap is a team refusing to use amnesty on it's worst player/contract, being forced instead to send talent away for half a cent on the dollar and surround an expensive core of 3 somewhat worth it players with a bunch of rookies and not pursuing any helpful FAs while their competitiors get better because they refuse to touch the tax line. I don't expect Ibaka to finish his contract out here either, they'll trade him as KD and Russ's contracts balloon

Already hating on your team.  I guess you got to enjoy a few years of perfect management so that you could be a fan. 

That isnt fair, they're doing an abysmal job of running the team right now and are setting themselves up to lose KD and Russ down the road. Its a disaster. No fan should be happy with them.

 

[shoelyesses]

I didn't say they were OKC cheap. But miller played a role in those championships. I saw him rise whenever battier was off. I saw him go insane in both finals. He was a serious tool that was used for the playoffs. Much more useful than Perkins who would be addition by subtraction.

they have pat riley at the helm...I think dude made be cooking up something...iuno no what but I think Miami is gonna due a little cutting and trimming and do a little reloading ala like the lakers use to do...

 

[100027]

That isnt fair, they're doing an abysmal job of running the team right now and are setting themselves up to lose KD and Russ down the road. Its a disaster. No fan should be happy with them.

They've drafted nigh perfectly with their lottery picks and made one major mistake.  They still have one of the best squads in the West AND managed to lock down two young superstars into one of the NBA's worst markets.  How is that abysmal?

 

[antidope]

That isnt fair, they're doing an abysmal job of running the team right now and are setting themselves up to lose KD and Russ down the road. Its a disaster. No fan should be happy with them.

They've drafted nigh perfectly with their lottery picks and made one major mistake.  They still have one of the best squads in the West AND managed to lock down two young superstars into one of the NBA's worst markets.  How is that abysmal?

They just made the worst trade in NBA history and refuse to get rid/stop playing Kendrick Perkins. The ripple effect of that trade can not be overstated it really is the worst trade EVER

 

[jsindaa]

where did I say they were equal in offensive ability.......? I didn't even once use the word offensive ability... What I said was none of them were all that great in terms of offensive skill set..and it was their natural talent that made the dominant. Which was true.... I like how you didn't post where I copied and pasted ewings bio....to which it said he wasn't a very good offensive player coming into the league due to Thompson focusing on defense and never really developing his offensive game....

And neither was akeem...he was quick and nimble and had good footwork...due to his many years of soccer...but has far shooting etc...post moves such as hook etc.. he wasn't all that great either coming into the league....

Then you guys starting posting up all time greatest numbers....well into those players prime... to which had nothing to due with their early stages in their careers.

Oh so your skill set is not your ability? Oh. The stats posted were their rookie years as well, all of which completely crap on Dwights, and your theory, which is stupid. Every single one of them put up better numbers and Dwights CAREER year is worse than Shaqs rookie year...think about that for a second. This is Howard's what 9th year? His offensive game is not improving. The prime numbers were posted because surprise, he's in his prime right now. Not a difficult concept

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

datznasty in your opinion what are the chances of kd leaving in 16 and why?

 

[100027]

They just made the worst trade in NBA history and refuse to get rid/stop playing Kendrick Perkins. The ripple effect of that trade can not be overstated it really is the worst trade EVER

They tried to get value for a player they felt they couldn't keep and it blew up in their face.  

They also drafted three superstars with three top 5 picks within 5 years of one another.  They improved their team every year to the point where they made the finals with an extremely young squad.  They have the second best player in the NBA buying in for years to come AND one of the most intense stars willing to play his backup.  

When you look at some of the management around the league, how could you qualify that as a disaster? 

 

[cash money 1999]

They just made the worst trade in NBA history 

 

[va757va]

They just made the worst trade in NBA history and refuse to get rid/stop playing Kendrick Perkins. The ripple effect of that trade can not be overstated it really is the worst trade EVER

the harden trade might be worse..

 

[shoelyesses]

Oh so your skill set is not your ability? Oh. The stats posted were their rookie years as well, all of which completely crap on Dwights, and your theory, which is stupid. Every single one of them put up better numbers and Dwights CAREER year is worse than Shaqs rookie year...think about that for a second. This is Howard's what 9th year? His offensive game is not improving. The prime numbers were posted because surprise, he's in his prime right now. Not a difficult concept

yes but your skill set encompasses everything...not just post play....

Again numbers don't tell the tale.... Dwight dominance is clearly moreso then those players... period. Basically what your saying is, dominance isn't based on how much ahead you are to your competition, but by the numbers you put up....

If that's the case the Wilt Chamberlin, and no one is even remotely close..... So which is it...your dominance is based on numbers, or how much better you are over your competition...Either way neither one of them was waaaay more dominant then Dwight because they played in the same era...and had similar numbers.

So I mean what is dominance to you maybe we just have difference of opinion. Is it the numbers you put up, or is it how much ahead/better you are in comparison to players at you position?

 

[reggiekiller]

They just made the worst trade in NBA history 

not even close

 

[rrlegend]

Drew gooden and that damn rat tail

 

[shoelyesses]

Oh so your skill set is not your ability? Oh. The stats posted were their rookie years as well, all of which completely crap on Dwights, and your theory, which is stupid. Every single one of them put up better numbers and Dwights CAREER year is worse than Shaqs rookie year...think about that for a second. This is Howard's what 9th year? His offensive game is not improving. The prime numbers were posted because surprise, he's in his prime right now. Not a difficult concept

skillset and numbers don't=dominance all the time... Like said perfect example...wilt put up waaaaaaay better numbers then any center has ever put up in the game... Was he more skilled then those players you mentioned no.. But despite all that due to a myriad of reasons wilt still was way more dominant then any player at that time, in comparison to his competition at that size.

Did ewing/akeem etc.. have a great skillset sure...better then shaq, of course they did... But did they dominate the era in which they played more then shaq dominate in his prime NO. Why, because overall when you compare all the players of that era/time, shaq was far more dominant ahead of his competition, while ewing and company could be argued to be top players one maybe over the other but neither was clearly the most dominant at the time in which they played, because they played at the same time and neither player was light years ahead of one another.

 

[duba169]

Dwight is dominant (to a point) because of a mixture of physical ability, defensive skill, and terrible competition. He doesn't have too many peers

With that said, his position is becoming less and less significant in the NBA. So it doesn't matter too much if he doesn't have many peers

 

[100027]

I don't really get the debate.  Must be over my head.

Shaq was extremely skilled though.  Tremendous footwork.  And Wilt was an amazing player.  Dwight's not going to be a significantly better offensive threat.  However he can still be one of the best in the league if he comes back healthy and motivated.  End of story.

 

[shoelyesses]

Dwight is dominant (to a point) because of a mixture of physical ability, defensive skill, and terrible competition. He doesn't have too many peers

With that said, his position is becoming less and less significant in the NBA. So it doesn't matter too much if he doesn't have many peers

that's all I was saying regardless of the reasons...and despite what he lacks.....he is the most dominant center in the league period. Akeem nor Ewing despite having better numbers...and being better overall players was never the most dominant center of their era. So seeing as they never were at no point the most dominant centers in the league, and seeing as they never was clearly the best center in the league....how could they have been more dominant then Dwight, when Dwight has/is the most dominant center in the league?

Dominance doesn't mean better overall player... Wilt probably is the most dominant player to ever play the game. Is he the best overall player to have played the game NO.

 

[duba169]

I dont care either way but they could have been more dominant because their position was more relevant and important. Dominant is a pretty damn subjective word. I don't really get the underlying point of the argument.

Dwight is more dominant in his era than the 90's centers werei n their eras. By process of elimination. But of course he is. There were many great centers going at it night in and night out.

It's irrelevant unless you are doing an all time list. Where Dwight would be waaaaay at the bottom

 

[datznasty]

datznasty in your opinion what are the chances of kd leaving in 16 and why?

Not that it really matters, but he just bought some townhomes downtown he is going to merge into 1 and his restaurant is almost done.

I think if we don't have a title before 15, he's out. With the exception of Kevin martin this recent offseason, and even that maybe shouldn't count because he convinced Minnesota to make it a S&T and therefore got back a 7million trade exception, Presti doesn't let his players reach free agency. That means KD being up in 16, Presti is going to him before that season and asking him to extend and if KD says something like, "I think I'd like to explore my options in free agency," then he has to trade him. Ditto Westbrook and Ibaka. I said I don't expect to Ibaka to finish his contract out here ('17, same as Westbrook) just because I don't believe management will ever pay the luxury tax. Presti said they aren't totally against it but don't want to become repeaters. KD (17,832,627-$18,995,624,$20,158,622) and Russ's ($14,693,906,$15,719,063,$16,744,219,$17,769,374) contracts obviously go up and up, Perk has 2 yrs at 18,6million, 12.5 mil a yr for Ibaka so that's over 53mil a yr for 4 players. Reggie Jackson will have to be extended soon or we'll trade him for more picks and keep the cycle going.

That means you have to surround them with cheapies, guys off the scrap heap basically that nobody else wants and are in no position to be all "Hollywood" about not wanting to come to OKC (Thabeet, Mohammed, Cook, etc.) who you can get with the minimum. Its also why Presti drafts so well and prefers to grow from within and develop internal talent.

That's the reason, by no means am I a supporter of it. Them dudes make more than enough money to sign and pay players, and you risk losing superstars like KD and Russ if you dont; they should call Gilbert and ask him how much value the franchise loses soon as that happens. They raise ticket prices every year, didn't have to pay for the arena or downtown renovations since we tax payer funded that, perpetual sellouts and ~5k names on the waiting list for season tickets; it's ridiculous. Then they got the nerve to get into the FA market and offer Dorrell Wright $894,000.

They're too nice and too media savvy to say it now, but sometime 20 yrs from now we're going to watch an ESPN 30 for 30 on either Westbrook or Durant and I guarantee they'll mention how much they hated the Harden trade and Perkins' contract and permaspot in the starting lineup, and the organizations resistance to doing anything about Perk and Brooks because of their pennypinching ways.

I also fully expect Presti to ask KD to take a major paycut, like Duncan has done (he only makes 10 mil right now). I don't think he will or should, players only do that in their late 30s but again, ownership loves to play the "small market, no money" card

Cliffnotes: if we have a title I bet he stays, if not he bounces
Ownership is cheap
Perkins is TERRIBLE

 

[everysingletime]

Ok, so Dwight is dominant because he is peerless and far ahead of everybody at his position, despite his offensive limitations. I fail to see how that's impressive.

It's like lauding someone for getting B's because everybody in his class are getting F's.

 

[ValarMorghulis]

They just made the worst trade in NBA history and refuse to get rid/stop playing Kendrick Perkins. The ripple effect of that trade can not be overstated it really is the worst trade EVER

They tried to get value for a player they felt they couldn't keep and it blew up in their face.  

They also drafted three superstars with three top 5 picks within 5 years of one another.  They improved their team every year to the point where they made the finals with an extremely young squad.  They have the second best player in the NBA buying in for years to come AND one of the most intense stars willing to play his backup.  

When you look at some of the management around the league, how could you qualify that as a disaster? 

I mean... what if Steven Adams turns out to be a serviceable big ( Ty Chandler stats) and Jeremy Lamb turns out to be a very good 6th man (Stevenson/Crawford stats) I think it isn't the WORST trade ever.

Teams need role players :\

 

[100027]

Not that it really matters, but he just bought some townhomes downtown he is going to merge into 1 and his restaurant is almost done.

I think if we don't have a title before 15, he's out. With the exception of Kevin martin this recent offseason, and even that maybe shouldn't count because he convinced Minnesota to make it a S&T and therefore got back a 7million trade exception, Presti doesn't let his players reach free agency. That means KD being up in 16, Presti is going to him before that season and asking him to extend and if KD says something like, "I think I'd like to explore my options in free agency," then he has to trade him. Ditto Westbrook and Ibaka. I said I don't expect to Ibaka to finish his contract out here ('17, same as Westbrook) just because I don't believe management will ever pay the luxury tax. Presti said they aren't totally against it but don't want to become repeaters. KD (17,832,627-$18,995,624,$20,158,622) and Russ's ($14,693,906,$15,719,063,$16,744,219,$17,769,374) contracts obviously go up and up, Perk has 2 yrs at 18,6million, 12.5 mil a yr for Ibaka so that's over 53mil a yr for 4 players. Reggie Jackson will have to be extended soon or we'll trade him for more picks and keep the cycle going.

That means you have to surround them with cheapies, guys off the scrap heap basically that nobody else wants and are in no position to be all "Hollywood" about not wanting to come to OKC (Thabeet, Mohammed, Cook, etc.) who you can get with the minimum. Its also why Presti drafts so well and prefers to grow from within and develop internal talent.

That's the reason, by no means am I a supporter of it. Them dudes make more than enough money to sign and pay players, and you risk losing superstars like KD and Russ if you dont; they should call Gilbert and ask him how much value the franchise loses soon as that happens. They raise ticket prices every year, didn't have to pay for the arena or downtown renovations since we tax payer funded that, perpetual sellouts and ~5k names on the waiting list for season tickets; it's ridiculous. Then they got the nerve to get into the FA market and offer Dorrell Wright $894,000.

They're too nice and too media savvy to say it now, but sometime 20 yrs from now we're going to watch an ESPN 30 for 30 on either Westbrook or Durant and I guarantee they'll mention how much they hated the Harden trade and Perkins' contract and permaspot in the starting lineup, and the organizations resistance to doing anything about Perk and Brooks because of their pennypinching ways.

I also fully expect Presti to ask KD to take a major paycut, like Duncan has done (he only makes 10 mil right now). I don't think he will or should, players only do that in their late 30s but again, ownership loves to play the "small market, no money" card

Cliffnotes: if we have a title I bet he stays, if not he bounces
Ownership is cheap
Perkins is TERRIBLE

What team were you a fan of before OKC got the Thunder?  Just curious because you sound entitled from a fanship perspective (I know that sounds like an insult, I don't mean it that way).  Was it the Lakers?  

edit: I mean you gotta ride with the good and the bad as a fan.  And what you have right now is definitely NOT the bad, so I'm not sure if you can handle it.

 

[shoelyesses]

Not that it really matters, but he just bought some townhomes downtown he is going to merge into 1 and his restaurant is almost done.

I think if we don't have a title before 15, he's out. With the exception of Kevin martin this recent offseason, and even that maybe shouldn't count because he convinced Minnesota to make it a S&T and therefore got back a 7million trade exception, Presti doesn't let his players reach free agency. That means KD being up in 16, Presti is going to him before that season and asking him to extend and if KD says something like, "I think I'd like to explore my options in free agency," then he has to trade him. Ditto Westbrook and Ibaka. I said I don't expect to Ibaka to finish his contract out here ('17, same as Westbrook) just because I don't believe management will ever pay the luxury tax. Presti said they aren't totally against it but don't want to become repeaters. KD (17,832,627-$18,995,624,$20,158,622) and Russ's ($14,693,906,$15,719,063,$16,744,219,$17,769,374) contracts obviously go up and up, Perk has 2 yrs at 18,6million, 12.5 mil a yr for Ibaka so that's over 53mil a yr for 4 players. Reggie Jackson will have to be extended soon or we'll trade him for more picks and keep the cycle going.

That means you have to surround them with cheapies, guys off the scrap heap basically that nobody else wants and are in no position to be all "Hollywood" about not wanting to come to OKC (Thabeet, Mohammed, Cook, etc.) who you can get with the minimum. Its also why Presti drafts so well and prefers to grow from within and develop internal talent.

That's the reason, by no means am I a supporter of it. Them dudes make more than enough money to sign and pay players, and you risk losing superstars like KD and Russ if you dont; they should call Gilbert and ask him how much value the franchise loses soon as that happens. They raise ticket prices every year, didn't have to pay for the arena or downtown renovations since we tax payer funded that, perpetual sellouts and ~5k names on the waiting list for season tickets; it's ridiculous. Then they got the nerve to get into the FA market and offer Dorrell Wright $894,000.

They're too nice and too media savvy to say it now, but sometime 20 yrs from now we're going to watch an ESPN 30 for 30 on either Westbrook or Durant and I guarantee they'll mention how much they hated the Harden trade and Perkins' contract and permaspot in the starting lineup, and the organizations resistance to doing anything about Perk and Brooks because of their pennypinching ways.

I also fully expect Presti to ask KD to take a major paycut, like Duncan has done (he only makes 10 mil right now). I don't think he will or should, players only do that in their late 30s but again, ownership loves to play the "small market, no money" card

Cliffnotes: if we have a title I bet he stays, if not he bounces
Ownership is cheap
Perkins is TERRIBLE

I agree and hell as far as westbrook I don't think he would even wait that long to say how he feels lol. But by the sound of things and the direction in which this team is going....it seems like they maybe headed to be a boon town again. I can only imagine what would happen if either left especially kd and what it would do to okc as a team and hell as a city.

It could make them turn into the vancover grizzles and even possibly relocate the team. They already a somewhat small market team...and a bad move here and there today, could cost the city a franchise tomorrow.  

 

[rrlegend]

I don't get it , you spend all the money to buy and move a team , have players that want to win but don't want the financial cost of winning. Foolish. You win a chip you'll turn more of a profit but If your just competitive that'll grow old ( I.e braves, suns, and a slew of other teams that just make the playoffs and a run at that chip every once in a while) but it seems like we just beating a dead horse

 

[Deleted member 38182]

I also fully expect Presti to ask KD to take a major paycut, like Duncan has done (he only makes 10 mil right now). I don't think he will or should, players only do that in their late 30s but again, ownership loves to play the "small market, no money" card

Cliffnotes: if we have a title I bet he stays, if not he bounces
Ownership is cheap
Perkins is TERRIBLE

You mean Bennett.... not Presti, is gonna ask KD to take a pay cut right?