DC Studios THREAD - GunnVerse Begins - Chapter ONE: Gods & Monsters

[silverbackhoney]

Superman is static and bland when poorly written I can point you to any really good superman stories that any adult can enjoy.

But those never translate to the movie screen. Superman Returns, Man of Steel, and this movie all have been less than stellar when it comes to the storytelling department, all because Superman, as a character, is inherently flawed.

 

[shatterkneesinc]

Supes aint gonna be op when darkseid gives him the work

 

[Master Zik]

I use to wonder why Marvel never ran with a hero with Lex's motives cuz minus some evil plans and douchery Lex could easily be the hero in Marvel's moral gray superhero area whether back in the 60s and even more so now

I remember past threads and discussions overall about the big 2 thematically when it comes to this and I recall a friend who is a big fan telling me it's like Marvel agreed to paint their heroes in the light of the DC paramours who embody goodness (to an extent) while DC has taken the complete opposite with Marvel's morally gray socially conscious/90s take to their movies Problem is one side is bungling it.

There are similar situations in Marvel, comic Civil War is an example of this, in a super realistic world we should side with the government, its complement reasonable that super powered individuals should be monitored and registed.

but in Marvels comic book verse we know that

a) super heroes are good

b) The Marvel US Goverment is essentially evil.

they have assisted in the genocide of mutants, they have been taken over by hydra, aliens, committed countless human rights violations. ect ect

so we side with cap.

True.

Superman is static and bland when poorly written I can point you to any really good superman stories that any adult can enjoy.

But those never translate to the movie screen. Superman Returns, Man of Steel, and this movie all have been less than stellar when it comes to the storytelling department, all because Superman, as a character, is inherently flawed.

They could've easily made a Superman movie where he fights Metallo or the Parasite and show the best of Superman.

Arguably, I could've made a better version of MOS where he's still "forced" to kill Zod in the end while he appeals to an adult audience. And I'm far from a big fan of Superman. It'd literally just take me re-watching some Smallville eps and Superman TAS to get it right before I touched a comic. I'd just definitely start with cutting out that bull **** Pa and Ma Kent message.

Even if Superman is inherently flawed, good writers can flip that on it's head and make that appealing to the audience.

 

[36Hypno]

Supes aint gonna be op when darkseid gives him the work

I can't wait for that

 

[WAKKO!]

Saw it again and still did not like it

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But those never translate to the movie screen. Superman Returns, Man of Steel, and this movie all have been less than stellar when it comes to the storytelling department, all because Superman, as a character, is inherently flawed.

Whats more likely Superman a character who has manage to persist in popularity for 80 years through multiple mediums is suddenly inherently flawed.

Or

Two film makers of questionable talent made 3 bad to mediocre movies


Zach Snyder who has made a whopping total of 1 good movie (300; essentially a shot for shot remake of the comic)
and Bryan Singer who is fine or terrible depending on who you ask.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Dave Schilling ‏@dave_schilling
If only Biggie and Tupac’s moms had the same first name. They might still be here today. #BatmanvSuperman

 

[shogun]

Think about it this way

If Lex comes in half way through Man of Steel in kills Superman is that not a heroic action in this super realistic world?

Who the hell would stop zod and his goons then? Even if they couldn't change earth to a new krypton they'd take over the world.

 

[jays25]

Why would Lex randomly coming in and killing Superman be a good thing? Unless Superman had previously done something to warrant such an action it would just make me think Lex was a ****, like always Can't think of any world where just killing someone out of the blue is a good thing.

 

[sea manup]

lex was like the riddler or a tim burton character. His plan at the end wasn't bad though. superman looked so beta though when lex dropped the pics on the ground and superman fell on his knees to grab them. Looked like pics of Diane Lane in a torture porn / snuff film. I would've ripped his arm off or taken an eyeball Kill Bill style.

pushing love interests off buildings and dropping polaroid pictures of a tortured loved one are straight out of the joker playbook 

 

[silverbackhoney]

Whats more likely Superman a character who has manage to persist in popularity for 80 years through multiple mediums is suddenly inherently flawed.

Or

Two film makers of questionable talent made 3 bad to mediocre movies


Zach Snyder who has made a whopping total of 1 good movie (300; essentially a shot for shot remake of the comic)
and Bryan Singer who is fine or terrible depending on who you ask.

A lot has changed since the 1980s, The last good film adaptations of Superman were well-received because the time period they took place in (Reagan president, everything is good, America is awesome superpower, pre-9/11, etc). Now we're in an era where people distrust those who are viewed as perfect saviors, people in power, too good to be true, etc. etc.  People would rather see movies with morally ambigious characters (ex: Batman, hell, Deadpool especially wouldn't have been anywhere near the blockbuster it was this year 10 years ago.) A bunch of things have changed that make it harder for a director to attempt to write a story about a character who is goody-goody Ned Flanders-y and perfect like Supes is.

The only good comparison to him is Captain America, who is more popular in the modern cinematic world because...

1. He was a scrawny dude who, because of his morals etc, was made into a hero by a random event - People can identify with this

2. He was goody-goody because of the era he was around in. Then he got frozen and brought back in this drastically different world. His character has evolved since it's inception

3. He has more than one facial expression

It's not impossible to write a good Superman movie in 2016, but it is incredibly difficult compared to (pretty much) every other superhero.  DC has a really bad track record of making good movies. This isn't something new.  The characterization of 20th century heroes in the 21st century definitely contributes.

 

[polosanddunks]

Hopefully the fight scenes for Darkseid are and much longer. I know Snyder is salivating at that already

 

[sea manup]

Why would Lex randomly coming in and killing Superman be a good thing? Unless Superman had previously done something to warrant such an action it would just make me think Lex was a ****, like always

Can't think of any world where just killing someone out of the blue is a good thing.

THIS IS THE EXACT MOTIVATION OF OUR "HERO" BATMAN 

 

[shogun]

I get that a supremely powerful being would scare the world but dude did everything he could in mos to stop people from his home world from changing and taking over earth. The easy choice for him would've been to side with zod and be one of the rulers. I found it funny in bvs when they showed superman doing all his good deeds and there was a voiceover of how dangerous he was. If people still doubt him after getting impaled by doomsday then they won't rock wtih dude no matter what.

 

[shogun]

Also it was so dumb when bruce went from hellbent on wanting kal dead to wanting to help him out just because of their mothers' first names in the span of a second. I can't believe of all my years warching the cartoons and movies that I never realized they had the same name. Kinda cool that bruce's parents are both from supernatural.

 

[sea manup]

 

Whats more likely Superman a character who has manage to persist in popularity for 80 years through multiple mediums is suddenly inherently flawed.

Or

Two film makers of questionable talent made 3 bad to mediocre movies


Zach Snyder who has made a whopping total of 1 good movie (300; essentially a shot for shot remake of the comic)
and Bryan Singer who is fine or terrible depending on who you ask.

A lot has changed since the 1980s, The last good film adaptations of Superman were well-received because the time period they took place in (Reagan president, everything is good, America is awesome superpower, pre-9/11, etc). Now we're in an era where people distrust those who are viewed as perfect saviors, people in power, too good to be true, etc. etc.  People would rather see movies with morally ambigious characters (ex: Batman, hell, Deadpool especially wouldn't have been anywhere near the blockbuster it was this year 10 years ago.) A bunch of things have changed that make it harder for a director to attempt to write a story about a character who is goody-goody Ned Flanders-y and perfect like Supes is.

The only good comparison to him is Captain America, who is more popular in the modern cinematic world because...

1. He was a scrawny dude who, because of his morals etc, was made into a hero by a random event - People can identify with this

2. He was goody-goody because of the era he was around in. Then he got frozen and brought back in this drastically different world. His character has evolved since it's inception

3. He has more than one facial expression

It's not impossible to write a good Superman movie in 2016, but it is incredibly difficult compared to (pretty much) every other superhero.  DC has a really bad track record of making good movies. This isn't something new.  The characterization of 20th century heroes in the 21st century definitely contributes.

but how do you know it would be very hard to make a superman movie that stays true to the core themes of the superman mythos? you cant use these past two movies as examples because they are not superman, the classic character from the comics. In fact these two movies are an example of why not sticking to the essence of superman doesnt work.

like you cant blame the character of superman for only having one facial expression when he's being directed by a guy who bans smiling 

 

[everysingletime]

I refuse to belive that no one can work with the Superman character. You give the rights to Marvel studios and watch him flourish

 

[silverbackhoney]

 
but how do you know it would be very hard to make a superman movie that stays true to the core themes of the superman mythos? you cant use these past two movies as examples because they are not superman, the classic character from the comics. In fact these two movies are an example of why not sticking to the essence of superman doesnt work.

like you cant blame the character of superman for only having one facial expression when he's being directed by a guy who bans smiling 

The reason why these past few movies have been *** is because the writers realize that an old-timey Superman just wouldn't connect with today's casual audience.  The movies end up being children's movies if they straight up follow golden boy superman.  They're going the same way and trying to make it Batman-y when the truth lies somewhere inbetween stoic stoneface Superman and everything is dandy all the time Superman.

The directors/writers have yet to realize this.

You can't honestly think following overpowered shining beacon of morality Superman would make a succesful movie in 2016, right?

 

[ksteezy]

what's my mothers name?

From now on, this is how I'm gonna solve any dispute I may have with another NTer

 

[shogun]

There has to be a way to keep him a really good guy but also cool. Is there any other character in comics / movies similar to him that has been portrayed well? Maybe goku in anime but not in that live action movie.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The reason why these past few movies have been *** is because the writers realize that an old-timey Superman just wouldn't connect with today's casual audience.  The movies end up being children's movies if they straight up follow golden boy superman.  They're going the same way and trying to make it Batman-y when the truth lies somewhere inbetween stoic stoneface Superman and everything is dandy all the time Superman.
The directors/writers have yet to realize this.

You can't honestly think following overpowered shining beacon of morality Superman would make a succesful movie in 2016, right?

and they came to this realization based on what exactly?

 

[Fresh Like Will]

You guys are just going in circles at this point.

 

[...So]

.

 

[sea manup]

 

 
but how do you know it would be very hard to make a superman movie that stays true to the core themes of the superman mythos? you cant use these past two movies as examples because they are not superman, the classic character from the comics. In fact these two movies are an example of why not sticking to the essence of superman doesnt work.

like you cant blame the character of superman for only having one facial expression when he's being directed by a guy who bans smiling 

The reason why these past few movies have been *** is because the writers realize that an old-timey Superman just wouldn't connect with today's casual audience.  The movies end up being children's movies if they straight up follow golden boy superman.  They're going the same way and trying to make it Batman-y when the truth lies somewhere inbetween stoic stoneface Superman and everything is dandy all the time Superman.

The directors/writers have yet to realize this.

You can't honestly think following overpowered shining beacon of morality Superman would make a succesful movie in 2016, right?

they dont realize, they think. the writers think that old-timey superman wont work and under these writers who have shown to be terrible at writing superman, they are probably right.

however, take a different (not even better) writer who loves the character and has a good concept of how superman can fit into the "real" world and it can totally work. 

superman is not only a shining beacon of morality, but he also personally needs to be seen by the public as a good person. that is what makes the character interesting, that because he is so powerful, he constantly needs to maintain his relationship with the general public to make sure they trust him to be the great person that he is. This is why lex is the perfect foil to him, lex is someone who superman knows is "evil" yet he can't do anything about lex because to the rest of the world lex is a business owner who has done a lot of good for the world. The world would turn on superman if he flew in and beat up lex luthor. lex who is a genius takes advantage of this in this "battles" with superman. 

if you focus on what he is physically capable of doing then yeah, he can do anything and its boring. but superman's limits are not physical, they are sociocultural. He can't do whatever he wants with his powers because he needs to maintain a positive image and be that shining beacon of mortality. 

so yes, under the right director and writing team I totally believe that it's possible to make a good superman movie that focuses on the complexities of superman's relationship with the "real world" while maintaining the "boy scout" persona. in fact making him undoubtably good is the only way to make this work. 

 

[sea manup]

is it really that hard to believe that a character is just naturally a good guy and wants to be accepted by society? 

why does everyone need to have a dark side?