2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[do work son]

How many teams go to a low post player in clutch situations? Serious question.

Outside the t wolves...? And even then love is perimeter player as well.

 

[travis]

How many teams go to a low post player in clutch situations? Serious question.

Outside the t wolves...? And even then love is perimeter player as well.

Sacramento has gone to Cousins on several occasions .

 

[rck3sactown]

How many teams go to a low post player in clutch situations? Serious question.

Outside the t wolves...? And even then love is perimeter player as well.

Sacramento has gone to Cousins on several occasions .

i see what you did there

 

[black migo]

How many teams go to a low post player in clutch situations? Serious question.

Outside the t wolves...? And even then love is perimeter player as well.

Dirk, lamarcus, cousins,

 

[lawdog1]

Can you give the ball to blake griffin in clutch situations and depend on him to win you a game? Thats what superstars do, the blake hate is because he gets treated like a superstar but i dont see one on the court, yeah hes playing great basketball, but dont sit here and act like cp3 isnt part of it, and dont bring up rookie season 20 & 10, that team went nowhere, blakes game didnt make him a superstar, his dunks did

That season, the Clippers went to 35 wins after having just 19 the season before. Blake, Bledsoe and Al Faruq-Aminu all got heavy minutes because of injury. Ryan Gomes started at SF for most of the season for crying out loud. So, can't blame Blake for the fact the team wasn't better in the tough West. Considering the personnel and how the team improved, Blake's numbers were making a difference. Plus, when he was clearly in the Alpha role that season, he had some clutch moments. He can do that again. He's just very deferential to CP, probably more than he should be.

Kevin Durant's teams weren't very good his first couple of years. Doesn't mean he wasn't a star.

 

[do work son]

Dirk, lamarcus, cousins, love...now someone go bring up that article certified posted about Blake. I'll wait.

 

[don ramon]

Monta is terrible, stop.

monta is not terrible at all.

quite a talented & serviceable player in fact. he's in a good spot now

kinda annoying here when players who aren't top 5 get words like terrible or bust thrown at them

 

[buc em]

People that are trashing Waiters probably haven't seen much of his games as a Cav. I actually think he's a really nice player for them. Originally I thought he'd just be a great 6th man to come off the bench and just score, but he's turned out to be a lot better than that. He's not just a chucker.

Is he really close to being dealt for Shumpert? I wonder if we really are interested in trading for him. MCW played with him at Cuse, he's from Philly and Turner went to Ohio State. Works from that perspective but some other pieces would definitely have to be involved.

 

[do work son]

I take it back, I won't wait.

[COLOR=#red]The Extra Pass: Busting myths surrounding Blake Griffin, and Thursday’s recaps[/COLOR]


View media item 615837

In his first season playing in the league, Blake Griffin crushed any and all expectations. Now, just a few years later, he can’t seem to get out from under the weight of them.

Without diving in too deep as to why that is, it’s probably fair to say that Griffin isn’t treated as even-handedly as some of his contemporaries. Maybe it’s the athleticism or the commercials or the persona or the rapid ascension, but Griffin can never really seem to satisfy his critics.

As a result, this has led to a few common complaints being repeated ad nauseum, even though they aren’t necessarily rooted in truth.

Blake Griffin needs to develop a post game

You hear this a lot, but rarely is actual data brought in to the conversation.

According to My Synergy Sports, a service that breaks down and tracks every play type, Griffin scored .88 points per play out of the post last year. Post-up opportunities comprised 35 percent of his offense. How does that compare to some of the league’s best post scorers?

Blake Griffin: .88 PPP, 35% post-ups
Kevin Love: .85 PPP, 24.9% post-ups
LaMarcus Aldridge: .94 PPP, 33.7% post-ups
DeMarcus Cousins: .81 PPP, 24.9% post-ups

Very rarely do you hear anyone harp on Love, Aldridge or Cousins about needing to develop their post skills, but Griffin was a more prolific and more efficient scorer than everyone except for Aldridge last season.

Does he always make it look pretty down there? Certainly not, but saying that Griffin isn’t a good post scorer flies directly in the face of the facts.

When Griffin can’t dunk and play in transition, he can’t be effective

Griffin’s mid-range game is a work in progress, for sure. Still, here’s a list of players with at least 25 made field goals that Griffin is shooting a better percentage than from 10-22 feet:

Marc Gasol, Kevin Martin, Carmelo Anthony, Bradley Beal, Gordon Hayward.

It’s a small sample size, but it wouldn’t be a surprise to see Griffin be right around league-average from mid-range this year.

It also seems silly that Griffin’s production in the pick-and-roll (1.2 PPP in that setting this year) can be so easily ignored. Pick-and-rolls make up the strong majority of every half-court offense in the league, and Griffin has routinely been one of the best finishers in the league as a roll man.

Let’s not discount Griffin’s passing ability, either. With the exception of Kevin Love, Josh McRoberts and the Gasol brothers, no other power forward or center ranks above Griffin in assist opportunities per game, which is tracked by SportVU and is defined as “passes by a player to a teammate in which the teammate attempts a shot, and if made, would be an assist.”

That confirms what most people who watch Griffin every night already know. Griffin is drawing the attention of multiple defenders whenever he gets the ball, and he’s routinely finding teammates open shots.

Truth be told, Griffin is already the player a lot of people want him to become. The narrative being stuck in neutral is funny, really, because there are other much more legitimate critiques of Griffin readily available. He’s a poor free throw shooter. He’s an inconsistent defender that lacks focus. He doesn’t help protect the rim or defend the pick-and-roll well.

Those are the areas of improvement that could help Griffin take his game, and maybe the Clippers, to the next level. All this other stuff is just noise.




#FACTS



http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....rrounding-blake-griffin-and-thursdays-recaps/

 

[do work son]

People that are trashing Waiters probably haven't seen much of his games as a Cav. I actually think he's a really nice player for them. Originally I thought he'd just be a great 6th man to come off the bench and just score, but he's turned out to be a lot better than that. He's not just a chucker.

Is he really close to being dealt for Shumpert? I wonder if we really are interested in trading for him. MCW played with him at Cuse, he's from Philly and Turner went to Ohio State. Works from that perspective but some other pieces would definitely have to be involved.

Likes waiters, hates wall.

See what I'm saying?

 

[Nawzlew]

Who's #24?

 

[ballinsam23]

i actually wanna watch that Jeremy Lin documentary. Is there anywhere i can catch it online?

 

[akhi]

Pat Ewing Jr= #24

 

[clyde the glide]

lol yea im gonna give it to blake with the game on the line when I have cp3 on my team.

some of u need to learn how to take the L rather than take **** out of context for the sake of your already petty and ridiculous argument

 

[black migo]

Dirk, lamarcus, cousins, love...now someone go bring up that article certified posted about Blake. I'll wait.

I asked can you give the ball to blake "the superstar" in a clutch situation, and you post an article about blakes myths smh

 

[julius wrek]

Moving on there are a ton of watchable games on tonight. Looking foward to the OKC matchup, theyre still our number 1 threat in the west IMO

@Antidope how has Kawhi been playing as of late?

Julius F. Wrek

Great, especially the last week or so. Expecting big things out of him defensively tonight.

Who does the most damage for the Spurs tonight?

Julius F. Wrek

 

[100027]

I asked can you give the ball to blake "the superstar" in a clutch situation, and you post an article about blakes myths smh

Were teams feeding Bill Russell the ball in "clutch situations"?  Was he not a superstar?

I feel like you are the type who thinks you need to be able to run the clock down 20 seconds and take a fadeaway jumper to qualify as a star player.

edit: I think Blake is a star, not a superstar btw.  But there are very few superstars in the league.

 

[buc em]

Likes waiters, hates wall.

See what I'm saying?

Get off my balls

Waiters has great fundamentals, is strong as a damn bull, can score in pretty much any way you ask him to and has a fire to him that you love from your shooting guard.

John Wall plays AAU style basketball. He can rack up whatever stats you wanna throw at me but I don't think his style of play at point guard is conductive to winning games over the long run.

Do you really wanna start this Wall/point guard argument again?

 

[sea manup]

Dirk, lamarcus, cousins, love...now someone go bring up that article certified posted about Blake. I'll wait.

i thought you people were talking about giving the ball to a post player when the game is on the line

blake doesnt fit into that category, not saying he cant but cp3 holds the ball at all times when the game is on the line

so what's your point? 

 

[akhi]

Pick arbitrary game situation to prove that player isn't a superstar... ok

Why ignore the entire body of work just to focus on the weaknesses?

 

[do work son]

Dirk, lamarcus, cousins, love...now someone go bring up that article certified posted about Blake. I'll wait.

I asked can you give the ball to blake "the superstar" in a clutch situation, and you post an article about blakes myths smh

If you can give it to LA or cousins late, I don't see why you couldn't give it to Blake. I don't why cp3sus isn't getting the ball in this situation though.

 

[do work son]

Likes waiters, hates wall.

See what I'm saying?

Get off my balls

Waiters has great fundamentals, is strong as a damn bull, can score in pretty much any way you ask him to and has a fire to him that you love from your shooting guard.

John Wall plays AAU style basketball. He can rack up whatever stats you wanna throw at me but I don't think his style of play at point guard is conductive to winning games over the long run.

Do you really wanna start this Wall/point guard argument again?

If waiters is so good, and wall is so bad, why can't dion put up wall like numbers?

But no, I don't want to bring up that argument again, you know, with you being a point guard and all.

Oh, and reported.

 

[black migo]

Were teams feeding Bill Russell the ball in "clutch situations"?  Was he not a superstar?

I feel like you are the type who thinks you need to be able to run the clock down 20 seconds and take a fadeaway jumper to qualify as a star player.


edit: I think Blake is a star, not a superstar btw.  But there are very few superstars in the league.

Bill russell as an anology?

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Blake can't make a FT. Blake also doesn't want to be in a position where he might have to be shooting FTs. I would argue it affects his game mentally, but there's no way to really prove it.

A star should be able to get the ball and be a threat, especially at the end of a close game. Hard to get that feeling about Blake, between his FTs and his decent but far from reliable offensive game. It's not like DeMarcus is that great at the line but you know he doesn't give a **** so it doesn't affect his game, or at least it doesn't seem like it.

 

[100027]

 
Pick arbitrary game situation to prove that player isn't a superstar... ok

Why ignore the entire body of work just to focus on the weaknesses?

Exactly.  And this vibes with a lot of the different comments being made in this thread.

Buc Em- you say Waiters can score pretty much every different way.  But he does so shooting 40% from the field.  So if he can score many different ways inefficiently, who cares?  I'd rather take a guy who can score one way efficiently.  

The exact same argument I have with people who say Carmelo is a superstar because "he has every offensive skill."  Well, the proof is in the result- if you are the best offensive player, you should combine your skills to score the most efficiently.  That is the ONLY thing that matters.

Black Migo- It's your type of thinking that gets people thinking Rudy Gay is a good player.  If you can produce consistently over 47 minutes it doesn't even really matter if you are garbage for the last 1 minute, you are still going to be a good player.  Likewise, being able to make a contested shot at the end of the game doesn't suddenly eliminate 47 minutes of inefficient or poor play.

The best play on the last play of the game IS NOT force-feeding your star player.  It's running a play to exploit mismatches and find the open man.  Why do you think the Spurs are so damn good?  So your point is just moot.  It doesn't matter if Blake is going to take the last shot of the game.  It's completely irrelevant to his value as a player.  He draws double teams, is an efficient scorer, and makes good plays on offense.  He has improvements to make and his FT shooting is a legitimate problem, but I'd rather have him on the floor than Dion Waiters any day.