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you dont like stu and bill?
2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by big j 33,
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yeezusdisciple
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stu lantz is the goods he is a grrat knowledgeable person and throws in some jomes
SPLASSSHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
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some commentators I enjoy: JVG, Hubie, Marv Albert
yeezusdisciple
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You think lakers can get AD after his rookie contract ends?
Kind of like revenge for not getting Paul
Kind of like revenge for not getting Paul
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I mean, he's a no. 1 option right now on a horrible team who has had no PG until now. Those numbers will come up, he has had the ball way too much and carried to much of a load so far. He'll be fine though. You know that, its like me pointing at Wall few years back and saying look how much he struggled when he was just carrying too much on his shoulders.
victor page
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I'm just saying....perception is a ************. Hayward is able to duck the criticism because he's a "likeable" kid.
Meanwhile there are people on here who swear Bradley Beal is a chucker who won't be more than OJ Mayo.
Case in point.
Wall has been one of the more criticized players on here. I mean there are still idiots who swear he's a 2 pretending to be a 1.
again...perception is a ************.
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you guys kill me
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Overall Stu is fine and definitely knowledgeable, but Billy Mac is awful. Literally garbage. A good color guy can only go so far if his play-by-play partner is bad.
Some teams just need to consider pure crowd noise instead.
yeezusdisciple
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Yeah bill is a little weird, but i like him
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Theorizing why the East is terrible.
At this point, it's only a matter of time before the NBA officially renames it the "Leastern" Conference.
Tuesday marks five full weeks of NBA games in the books, and if you look at the standings, you'll see exactly two Eastern Conference teams with winning records.
That's right, two.
The 16-2 Indiana Pacers and the 14-3 Miami Heat are basically lapping the rest of the East while the 9-9 Washington Wizards try to sprinkle some credibility to their conference brethren. It's gotten so bad that the 6-10 Toronto Raptors, who somehow "lead" the Atlantic Division, would finish two games behind the last-place team in the Southwest Division, the 8-8 Memphis Grizzlies.
The Eastern Conference has turned every NBA fan into a comedian this season, and Monday night gave us even more material. There were three East versus West matchups, and how did the East teams fare? They lost all three games in the closing seconds. It was another terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day in the East.
After last night's defeats, the East's interconference record has dropped to a pathetic 23-60, meaning that it's won just .277 of its games against the West over an 83-game span. By comparison, the Charlotte Bobcats finished last season with the second-worst record in the league at 21-61.
It gets worse. If you take out the Pacers and the Heat, the East is 16-59 (.213), which makes it pretty much on par with the 2013-14 Utah Jazz, who are 4-15 (.211) -- and until recently, the laughing stock of the NBA.
So you might be wondering: Is this the worst Eastern Conference in NBA history?
So far, it sure is. And it's not even close.
The Eastern Conference has fallen on hard times before, but it's never been quite this bad. Heading into the season, the worst interconference record for the East stood at .367, which was set in 2003-04, the same season the Boston Celtics punched a ticket to the playoffs with a dazzling 36-46 record. If you want to compare apples to apples, the East that season was 30-66 (.313) against the West through Dec. 2, which is considerably better than what we're seeing these days.
Here's a chart illustrating the historical win percentage of the East versus the West since 1978, thanks to data compiled by Per Diem co-pilot Kevin Pelton in the 2012-13 Basketball Prospectus.
As you can see, the East's futility isn't anything new. There has been a downward trend that has spanned across the 21st century. The East has worn the interconference belt only once in the past 15 seasons, and it came back in 2008-09 when the Los Angeles Lakers ended up winning the title anyway. In fact, there is a weak relationship, at best, between interconference record and which team wins the title. The East has won five of the past 10 championships despite having the better interconference record only once over that time. So if you're thinking the West surely will carry this dominance through the Finals, think again.
But while it's fun to poke fun at how dreadful the East is, it's tougher to pinpoint why. Why do just five of the NBA's top 20 players in win shares hail from the East? What created this divide?
Here are three theories to explain the NBA's ever-expanding gulf.
1. Smarter ownership and management out West
This is difficult to quantify, but this is a common refrain around the league, especially with the track records of New York owner James Dolan and Charlotte owner Michael Jordan. The theory goes that the Western Conference ownership and front offices have been ahead of the game and their innovations have had a significant trickle-down effect to the court. If we can pinpoint one area in which the West intel has carved out an enormous advantage, it's international talent.
Worst East Winning Pct. vs. West
Since 1978
Season W L WPct
2013-14 23 60 .277
2003-04 154 266 .367
2000-01 161 259 .383
2011-12 69 111 .383
2002-03 170 250 .405
In terms of mining talent across the globe, the Western Conference has been way ahead of the curve. Think of all the big names that have come from outside United States borders. Dirk Nowitzki. Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili. Yao Ming. Pau Gasol. Andrei Kirilenko. All of them are All-Stars. All of them did it in the Western Conference.
Who are the East lifers who were All-Stars? That list is almost nonexistent. Over the past decade, only one Eastern Conference All-Star came from overseas: Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Just one. Every other East All-Star rep came into the league from American soil.
We can look at this objectively rather than looking purely at All-Star appearances. According to research presented in the 2012-13 Basketball Prospectus, international players contributed 101.6 wins over replacement player to Western Conference teams in the 2011-12 season. How about out East? Just 29 WARP. The gap widens over time. In the past decade, we've seen 949.4 wins contributed by international players to the West compared to just 267.1 WARP from the East.
The trend continues to this day. The West has Nowitzki, and the East has Andrea Bargnani.
Furthermore, if you look around the league at the teams that have embraced analytics early and dedicated vast resources into exploiting the data advantage, most of them came from the West. For example, in 2011-12, five of the mere six subscribers to SportVU data were Western Conference teams (Boston being the only Eastern team to take the plunge). The Houston Rockets, Dallas Mavericks and San Antonio Spurs have been leaders in the analytical movement while the East appears to be just catching up.
2. Injuries have taken a toll in the East
Derrick Rose. Tyson Chandler. Rajon Rondo. Deron Williams, Paul Pierce, Brook Lopez and Kirilenko. Ersan Ilyasova and Larry Sanders. Bradley Beal and Emeka Okafor. Al Jefferson. Medical staffs out East have been working overtime this season. What did we expect when three Eastern Conference (expected) powers -- the Knicks, Nets and Bulls -- have basically been broken due to injuries?
Well, don't expect any sympathy from the West. Kobe Bryant hasn't played yet for the Lakers, who have been without Steve Nash for 12 games. Russell Westbrook hasn't been himself since his knee injury. Marc Gasol will miss weeks with a strained MCL. Since Andre Iguodala (hamstring) left in the third quarter Nov. 22, the Warriors have dropped four of its last six games. Denver has made an impressive run recently with Danilo Gallinari and JaVale McGee in street clothes. And that's before we get to Anthony Davis and J.J. Redick, two key players in the playoff picture who will be without their respective teams for the foreseeable future.
Yes, it seems the Eastern Conference injuries have piled up higher than the Western Conference's, but it doesn't explain the entire gap between the two entities. Injuries are part of the game, and the East made risky gambles in that department. Hindsight is 20/20, but the Nets employ the oldest roster in the league while their New York neighbors used a future first-round pick to get Bargnani instead of a defensive-minded backup for Chandler, a guy who has battled significant injuries his entire career. So it's hard to chalk it up purely to chance.
3. More Tankapalooza stops out East
Offseason whispers suggested that the Heat might chase the Chicago Bulls' regular-season record this season because of the litany of teams in tank mode. Heading into the season, the Philadelphia 76ers, Celtics, Orlando Magic and Bobcats took up four spots in the top six teams in Chad Ford's Tank Rank. While it's true that those teams might indeed fatten up Miami's record by season's end, the irony is that two of the Heat's three losses have come against teams supposedly in tank mode -- the Celtics and 76ers. Hasn't worked so far.
Even throwing the Milwaukee Bucks into the mix, the tanking excuse mostly falls flat once we recognize that the East's "tanking" teams haven't been nearly as much of a disaster as the Nets and the Knicks, who are collectively 8-25. It's early, but the Bobcats have been competitive even without Jefferson for half their games, thanks to a top-three ranking in defensive efficiency. And the 76ers aren't chasing all-time futility like many expected, though they've lost 12 of their last 15 games.
Yes, the East could end up having five teams in the tank, and it could grow if Toronto general manager Masai Ujiri decides winning the division is the team's worst-case scenario with a loaded 2014 draft class that features Canadian phenom Andrew Wiggins. But for right now, the injuries to the Knicks and Nets have put more of a dent in the Eastern Conference's bottom line than the tankers.
One variable can't explain the East versus West divide. Rather, a combination of the three reasons above, among other contributors, has separated the two. Ultimately, the West might be as good as the East is bad, as Insider's Bradford Doolittle argued recently. It's probably a reflection of our rubbernecking society that we're spending our time mocking the East rather than admiring the West. But the chasm is as vast as ever between the two conferences. Unless these trends reverse, it'll only get wider.
Tuesday marks five full weeks of NBA games in the books, and if you look at the standings, you'll see exactly two Eastern Conference teams with winning records.
That's right, two.
The 16-2 Indiana Pacers and the 14-3 Miami Heat are basically lapping the rest of the East while the 9-9 Washington Wizards try to sprinkle some credibility to their conference brethren. It's gotten so bad that the 6-10 Toronto Raptors, who somehow "lead" the Atlantic Division, would finish two games behind the last-place team in the Southwest Division, the 8-8 Memphis Grizzlies.
The Eastern Conference has turned every NBA fan into a comedian this season, and Monday night gave us even more material. There were three East versus West matchups, and how did the East teams fare? They lost all three games in the closing seconds. It was another terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day in the East.
After last night's defeats, the East's interconference record has dropped to a pathetic 23-60, meaning that it's won just .277 of its games against the West over an 83-game span. By comparison, the Charlotte Bobcats finished last season with the second-worst record in the league at 21-61.
It gets worse. If you take out the Pacers and the Heat, the East is 16-59 (.213), which makes it pretty much on par with the 2013-14 Utah Jazz, who are 4-15 (.211) -- and until recently, the laughing stock of the NBA.
So you might be wondering: Is this the worst Eastern Conference in NBA history?
So far, it sure is. And it's not even close.
The Eastern Conference has fallen on hard times before, but it's never been quite this bad. Heading into the season, the worst interconference record for the East stood at .367, which was set in 2003-04, the same season the Boston Celtics punched a ticket to the playoffs with a dazzling 36-46 record. If you want to compare apples to apples, the East that season was 30-66 (.313) against the West through Dec. 2, which is considerably better than what we're seeing these days.
Here's a chart illustrating the historical win percentage of the East versus the West since 1978, thanks to data compiled by Per Diem co-pilot Kevin Pelton in the 2012-13 Basketball Prospectus.
As you can see, the East's futility isn't anything new. There has been a downward trend that has spanned across the 21st century. The East has worn the interconference belt only once in the past 15 seasons, and it came back in 2008-09 when the Los Angeles Lakers ended up winning the title anyway. In fact, there is a weak relationship, at best, between interconference record and which team wins the title. The East has won five of the past 10 championships despite having the better interconference record only once over that time. So if you're thinking the West surely will carry this dominance through the Finals, think again.
But while it's fun to poke fun at how dreadful the East is, it's tougher to pinpoint why. Why do just five of the NBA's top 20 players in win shares hail from the East? What created this divide?
Here are three theories to explain the NBA's ever-expanding gulf.
1. Smarter ownership and management out West
This is difficult to quantify, but this is a common refrain around the league, especially with the track records of New York owner James Dolan and Charlotte owner Michael Jordan. The theory goes that the Western Conference ownership and front offices have been ahead of the game and their innovations have had a significant trickle-down effect to the court. If we can pinpoint one area in which the West intel has carved out an enormous advantage, it's international talent.
Worst East Winning Pct. vs. West
Since 1978
Season W L WPct
2013-14 23 60 .277
2003-04 154 266 .367
2000-01 161 259 .383
2011-12 69 111 .383
2002-03 170 250 .405
In terms of mining talent across the globe, the Western Conference has been way ahead of the curve. Think of all the big names that have come from outside United States borders. Dirk Nowitzki. Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili. Yao Ming. Pau Gasol. Andrei Kirilenko. All of them are All-Stars. All of them did it in the Western Conference.
Who are the East lifers who were All-Stars? That list is almost nonexistent. Over the past decade, only one Eastern Conference All-Star came from overseas: Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Just one. Every other East All-Star rep came into the league from American soil.
We can look at this objectively rather than looking purely at All-Star appearances. According to research presented in the 2012-13 Basketball Prospectus, international players contributed 101.6 wins over replacement player to Western Conference teams in the 2011-12 season. How about out East? Just 29 WARP. The gap widens over time. In the past decade, we've seen 949.4 wins contributed by international players to the West compared to just 267.1 WARP from the East.
The trend continues to this day. The West has Nowitzki, and the East has Andrea Bargnani.
Furthermore, if you look around the league at the teams that have embraced analytics early and dedicated vast resources into exploiting the data advantage, most of them came from the West. For example, in 2011-12, five of the mere six subscribers to SportVU data were Western Conference teams (Boston being the only Eastern team to take the plunge). The Houston Rockets, Dallas Mavericks and San Antonio Spurs have been leaders in the analytical movement while the East appears to be just catching up.
2. Injuries have taken a toll in the East
Derrick Rose. Tyson Chandler. Rajon Rondo. Deron Williams, Paul Pierce, Brook Lopez and Kirilenko. Ersan Ilyasova and Larry Sanders. Bradley Beal and Emeka Okafor. Al Jefferson. Medical staffs out East have been working overtime this season. What did we expect when three Eastern Conference (expected) powers -- the Knicks, Nets and Bulls -- have basically been broken due to injuries?
Well, don't expect any sympathy from the West. Kobe Bryant hasn't played yet for the Lakers, who have been without Steve Nash for 12 games. Russell Westbrook hasn't been himself since his knee injury. Marc Gasol will miss weeks with a strained MCL. Since Andre Iguodala (hamstring) left in the third quarter Nov. 22, the Warriors have dropped four of its last six games. Denver has made an impressive run recently with Danilo Gallinari and JaVale McGee in street clothes. And that's before we get to Anthony Davis and J.J. Redick, two key players in the playoff picture who will be without their respective teams for the foreseeable future.
Yes, it seems the Eastern Conference injuries have piled up higher than the Western Conference's, but it doesn't explain the entire gap between the two entities. Injuries are part of the game, and the East made risky gambles in that department. Hindsight is 20/20, but the Nets employ the oldest roster in the league while their New York neighbors used a future first-round pick to get Bargnani instead of a defensive-minded backup for Chandler, a guy who has battled significant injuries his entire career. So it's hard to chalk it up purely to chance.
3. More Tankapalooza stops out East
Offseason whispers suggested that the Heat might chase the Chicago Bulls' regular-season record this season because of the litany of teams in tank mode. Heading into the season, the Philadelphia 76ers, Celtics, Orlando Magic and Bobcats took up four spots in the top six teams in Chad Ford's Tank Rank. While it's true that those teams might indeed fatten up Miami's record by season's end, the irony is that two of the Heat's three losses have come against teams supposedly in tank mode -- the Celtics and 76ers. Hasn't worked so far.
Even throwing the Milwaukee Bucks into the mix, the tanking excuse mostly falls flat once we recognize that the East's "tanking" teams haven't been nearly as much of a disaster as the Nets and the Knicks, who are collectively 8-25. It's early, but the Bobcats have been competitive even without Jefferson for half their games, thanks to a top-three ranking in defensive efficiency. And the 76ers aren't chasing all-time futility like many expected, though they've lost 12 of their last 15 games.
Yes, the East could end up having five teams in the tank, and it could grow if Toronto general manager Masai Ujiri decides winning the division is the team's worst-case scenario with a loaded 2014 draft class that features Canadian phenom Andrew Wiggins. But for right now, the injuries to the Knicks and Nets have put more of a dent in the Eastern Conference's bottom line than the tankers.
One variable can't explain the East versus West divide. Rather, a combination of the three reasons above, among other contributors, has separated the two. Ultimately, the West might be as good as the East is bad, as Insider's Bradford Doolittle argued recently. It's probably a reflection of our rubbernecking society that we're spending our time mocking the East rather than admiring the West. But the chasm is as vast as ever between the two conferences. Unless these trends reverse, it'll only get wider.
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It should be John Ireland and Mychal T on the TV cast.
They do radio and they're great.
Bill Mac is GOD AWFUL... he doesn't even play-by-play half the time.
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yeah and thts because people on NT want NBA players to be as good as Jesus in their first few years in the league . carrying a team by yourself is not an easy task js ask KD after Westbrook went down . lmfao idk wat you kids be wanting from players like wall , Beal , Griffin , love , js to name a few who are all quality players but have things to work on js like every other player in the NBA.
yall straight pick and choose who to throw the criticism at .
yall straight pick and choose who to throw the criticism at .
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Them crossovers got him bulletproofKyrie is the Teflon Don of the NBA.
Dude is above criticism. All good as long as he's crossing dudes up, doe.
victor page
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Who on here is realistically asking Gordon Hayward to "carry" anybody tho?
But for somebody who was apart of a LEGIT discussion about who was better between him and Paul George just a month ago....
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Thompson is hilariousIreland is great
Thompson tho.....
GOAT would be Ireland and Stu Lantz
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Ireland is great. When they hired Billy Mac it was like when they passed on Brian Shaw for Mike Brown
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awe no , not saying tht Hayward is gonna carry the Jazz.. tht was more so to the Wall comment . but honestly all of Utah probably wants Hayward to carry the Jazz
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Tr!gga Trey coming for that ROY..
I seriously underestimated dude's NBA prospects.. give me the L 
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Great analogy. Ireland has been with the lakers almost 20 years now. When they switched up to TWC I thought they were gonna hire ireland for TV.
I hope they get rid of Billy Mac and put Ireland on Tv soon.
I hope they get rid of Billy Mac and put Ireland on Tv soon.
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IDK Thompson just rubs me the wrong way for some reason
like he really, really bothers me.
like he really, really bothers me.
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Really? dude is one of the nicest people and hilarious.IDK Thompson just rubs me the wrong way for some reason
like he really, really bothers me.
he co hosts a morning show on espn la 710.
Maybe I don't see it.
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Really? dude is one of the nicest people and hilarious.IDK Thompson just rubs me the wrong way for some reason
like he really, really bothers me.
he co hosts a morning show on espn la 710.
Maybe I don't see it.
I'm glad I only listen to 710 in the afternoons then Whenever he's filled in on Mason & Ireland or M & M, I cringe |I
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Mason and ireland is the GOAT.I'm glad I only listen to 710 in the afternoons then
Whenever he's filled in on Mason & Ireland or M & M, I cringe
I'm in the office laughing my *** off when they're on.
Max and marcellus are eh, funny but Max annoys the hell out of me.
the worst is Arash Markazi. Ole Clipper Smurf.
Ramona Shelburne is surprisingly really good on the radio.
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Lot of Chris Paul nuances in Burke's game...
The Jazz are 3-2 with him as a starter. He hasn't been a huge distributor yet, but the impact of even finally having a competent point guard on the floor is clear.
The Jazz are 3-2 with him as a starter. He hasn't been a huge distributor yet, but the impact of even finally having a competent point guard on the floor is clear.
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