2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[ballinsam23]

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I asked this like three days ago, and I dont really want to take it into the Knicks thread and potentially upset people, but why does it feel like the team isnt open to the idea of Trading Melo?

We really only rebuilt through the draft once (Ewing). Every single person we drafted after that was traded after their rookie contract was up. We dont necessarily rebuild, we try to reload. And every time it bites us in the ***.

The one good thing about our owner is that he's willing to spend. His logic is we already have 1 major piece in place, its easier to add another piece than to start from scratch. As a diehard fan, yes i'd trade Melo mainly because I think its time we tank for 2 years and land 2 top 5 picks. We can get a top 5 2014 pick + fillers for Melo. Thats a great start.

The Knicks are a very impatient franchise and its understandable since we havent won a ring in 40 years.

 

[dman14]

when you are THE number one pick, you are expected to turn a franchise around and be the best player. all everything since he was a HS player and clear cut number one pick. i expect someone with those accolades, talent, and hype to turn a franchise around. so far, wall hasnt done it, yet...
lillard has basically lived up to his draft position.

Lillard isn't the best player on his team. Aldridge is the key reason for their success. I don't see how Wall and Lillard are comparable. Put Lillard in Wall's situation and he would be an afterthought. Look at the struggles Irving is having. It's a lot more pressure being a number 1 pick with no other great player on your team.

the pressure comes with being the number one pick and all the hype. i dont think people expected lillard to be that guy. expectations for the two isnt even close. so far lillard has met those in my opinion, wall hasnt.

 

[dt43]

Nah I agree, that franchise was in disarray.


I like Wall, one of my favorite players to watch, wanted him as a Net and hoped we were gonna win that lottery.


I think dude has potential to be a very good PG, maybe Elite / top 5

Wall is top 5 right now. You can't name 5 pg's currently playing that are better than him. Chris Paul and Curry (even though he sucks on defense) are the only PG's clearly better than him right now. Drose doesn't count because he isn't healthy. Westbrook and Tony Parker have a case. John Wall is the best PG in the East and only getting better.

Lawson? Lowry? Lillard? Conley?(SHOUT OUT TO BHZ)

Not saying they are better, just throwing some names into the fray. PG is honestly the hardest position to rank

Lawson, Lowry, and Conley have no case imo. Lillard has a case because he is such a good outside shooter but he isn't the passer or defender Wall is. Also I don't think he has a lot of upside compared to guys like Wall and Curry. I guess it just comes down to what you want from your PG. If you want a shoot first pg with great outside shooting then Lillard is your guy. If you want a pass first PG with good defense then Wall is your guy. The difference between the two is Wall has always had to be the best player on his team since day 1. That's a lot of pressure for a young player.

when you are THE number one pick, you are expected to turn a franchise around and be the best player. all everything since he was a HS player and clear cut number one pick. i expect someone with those accolades, talent, and hype to turn a franchise around. so far, wall hasnt done it, yet...
lillard has basically lived up to his draft position.

We're talking about point guards here. Historically there's a limit on how much a pg can impact a team (other than Magic).

What current point guard really changed their franchises fortunes around that much? CP3 is the only one you can argue, and his teams have never gone anywhere. Rose was a #1 pick but he didn't completely turn the Bulls around either, they were already a good team with depth when they drafted him, and their management did a good job in hiring Thibs and adding pieces. Westbrook has Durant. Parker had Duncan. Lillard has Aldridge.. the list goes on

Most of the players who have franchise-changing potential are wings and big men, not point guards. If your point guard is your team's best player, you probably aren't gonna win anything. Players like Wall, Kyrie, Lillard, Rose, Westbrook, even CP3 are never going to win unless they're playing next to a true #1 option.

Unfortunately those dominant franchise-changing players are a lot harder to find than talented point guards. We've basically only seen three of them drafted in the past decade or so (Lebron, Durant, and now Anthony Davis).

 

[dmbrhs]

Good info. But he'll probably finish with a career scoring average of under 20 a game; kind of insane for HOF considerations but it makes sense for him.

Lots of guys go into the Hall averaging less than 20 a game. Also, scoring 20+ per game doesn't make you a lock (see: Mitch Richmond), although most 20 ppg scorers are either in, or are locks.

 

[trynafeelmink]

If i'm the knicks i'm not trading Melo at this point either because 1) you not getting anything close to value of Melo & their is a very big chance he's willing to stay. If you get him signed that have one more year of Stat & Tyson and suddenly they have huge capsapce and trade assets next season. Ask denver how well bringing in a bunch of young above average players has worked for them. If you don't have a chance at bringing in a superstar and their is a big chance your superstar is staying then you have to keep him

Melo wants big Money, Wants a big market, Wants a championship contender.

His options are the Bulls & Lakers both are big markets, both can't pay him nearly what he would net in NY, and both have superstar players who are coming off injuries and not much of a supporting cast around.

If i'm the Knicks right now i'm banging down Det door in order to get Greg Monroe... I think he would be a nice fit and start playing by melo.

 

[larrydavidmoney]

1. Lebron is MVP

2. Player A > Player B

3. Cavs talk

4. Melo bashing

5. Hall of Fame Talk


Repeat.

I asked this like three days ago, and I dont really want to take it into the Knicks thread and potentially upset people, but why does it feel like the team isnt open to the idea of Trading Melo?

That's like asking a homeless man to give up his cardboard boxes.

 

[bhzmafia14]

When I look at how good a PG is, I look at their ability to do more than just one thing.

- the ability to lead
- variety of ways they can score the ball
- do they make teammates better?
- low turnover rate
- defense
- can they win ball games?


There are not many PG's in today's game that can score an above average level on each of these categories. I may be missing a few categories, but I think that's the majority. I do think Wall has the potential to be the next best PG in the league when Paul starts to lose his step. I don't see it in Kyrie because I see an unwillingness to be a better defender and be a better overall leader.

As for Lillard, I think a lot will be said about him come playoff time. He's now about to be put on the bigger stage to see how well he can perform. Curry did pretty well during his first rodeo. I also think pace, usage rate, etc. factors a lot into how good a player's overall statistical average looks.

 

[flyerthandelta]

If Vince is a HOFr you better add TMAC!

 

[you big dummy]

^ Both are HOFers imo

 

[gotjz]

Wall is and has always been a bit overrated. He's getting better, and he's still young so time will tell. But Wall's a homerun hitter that is relying on his athleticism almost purely to do what he does. He's the guy that torches you tonight, but you don't fear or even gameplan too much for him the next time you have to face him.

 

[hypebeast5]

john wall plays in the eastern conf. there's no excuse for him not making the playoffs. heck, jennings was able to get his team in the playoffs.

i dont watch much cavs gms, but how is irving's defense?

Irving is a bottom tier defender

In his defense i wouldnt play defense either if im the whole offense for my team that is exhausting

 

[kevin cleveland]

You guys have no idea how good Lowry has been this season, huh?

And as one of the biggest Dragic supporters on here... He hasn't been better than Lowry (though, really good, too).

I think it was Osh who said it recently. It's as if most people don't even realize that defense is a thing.

 

[ballinsam23]

Lowry has been simply amazing this year. Reminds me of a right handed Conley honestly.

 

[dt43]

You guys have no idea how good Lowry has been this season, huh?

And as one of the biggest Dragic supporters on here... He hasn't been better than Lowry (though, really good, too).

I think it was Osh who said it recently. It's as if most people don't even realize that defense is a thing.

I've been watching the Raptors, Lowry has been their MVP for sure. But it's a contract year for him, will he keep it up after he gets paid? It seems like the Raptors front office doesn't trust him longterm, seeing as they've been trying to trade him all season.

 

[Moheezy]

I've been watching the Raptors, Lowry has been their MVP for sure. But it's a contract year for him, will he keep it up after he gets paid? It seems like the Raptors front office doesn't trust him longterm, seeing as they've been trying to trade him all season.

I remember Lowry was the goods in his contract year in Houston. The Rapotors expected much from him, but he disappointed until this season (another contract year).

 

[larrydavidmoney]

Dragic > Lowry

I'm very aware of what Lowry's been up to and I commend him, but w/o looking at the numbers Dragic has been a lot more efficient in addition to doing numbers in the western conference... LeGoran shredding up that almighty Indiana defense last week was pure.

 

[lawdog1]

Raptors have a history of guys going there and underperforming after playing well elsewhere - Lowry, Turk, Landry Fields, Kapono.

 

[coldcity]

Melo getting 60

bet you he doesn't

screenname bet?

Migo actually right about something

 

[dman14]

watching the nets/c's highlights...does kg number get his number retired by the c's? with a tradition like theirs, was his short time there and one chip gets him in? his stats arent on the top ranks compared to other c's but he brought them back to relevancy. what about ray?

 

[bhzmafia14]

Toronto needs to keep Lowry since he's been so good. I don't see why they would want to get rid of such a great PG. Since they have a great GM now, you would think he would like to have Lowry as one of the building blocks on the team (only 27 years old).

 

[$tacy]

Lowry>wall this season

 

[awwsome]

Wall is and has always been a bit overrated. He's getting better, and he's still young so time will tell. But Wall's a homerun hitter that is relying on his athleticism almost purely to do what he does. He's the guy that torches you tonight, but you don't fear or even gameplan too much for him the next time you have to face him.

I don't think Wall is overrated at all, he's been good for 20/5/10 a lot this season. He's also a way better defender than Curry or Kyrie but it don't seem like that matters to y'all.

As far as two way players at the PG spot it's Russ/Wall then the rest if we talking potential game changers, Russ being a tier above. Wall also got bums around him besides Beal and even he has been inconsistent.

 

[larrydavidmoney]

Raptors have a history of guys going there and underperforming after playing well elsewhere - Lowry, Turk, Landry Fields, Kapono.

Steven Novak.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I laugh at people who think Demar Derozan is the raptors all star.

He maybe the third most important Raptor, with Amir Johnson being number 2.

 

[Trillmatic90]

Toronto needs to keep Lowry since he's been so good. I don't see why they would want to get rid of such a great PG. Since they have a great GM now, you would think he would like to have Lowry as one of the building blocks on the team (only 27 years old).

If it were that easy then there would be no question we resign him. He's easily a top 10 point guard and dont wanna let him go but the question is does he really wanna stay in Toronto or will he flee in free agency for nothing like Bosh did.

Imo I think we should just keep him for the season, see how we do in the playoffs and hope he resigns.