2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

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YeezusDisciple said:
AI was a scorer first cp is a passer first. totally different
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i read that in the manager of the right twix factory's voice 
embarassed.gif
 
it's been tp9's team for a long while now.
cp3 been in the league for awhile, it's time to make a deep run. he has the pieces, now a great coach, no more excuses if he cant get it done.
 
sea manup said:
yeah, but its also hard to compare AI and CP3. CP3 could never do what AI did and AI could never do what CP3 does

funny how out of the two tiny guards its AI who lead his team to the finals and CP3 cant get out of the second round... paging @DarthSka
 :nerd:  not srs

i would say that for most all time greats who dont have championships not having a championship is the #1 knock on their careers. just look at malone/stockton/barkley/nash when making top 10 all time lists its always exclusively guys who have multiple titles while guys like barkley and malone are fighting for the title of "best player who has never won anything" its almost as if they are in a different league. When talking about legacies of all time greats the first thing that is brought up is always championships, its like when lebron win his first a few years ago, it was like "wow he finally won one, now we can start talking about his place among all time greats"

look at the way people treat melo on here, he puts up great stats every year but people ignore that and talk about his playoff record and how he's not good enough to lead a team to the finals. same with love, good player but not great since a great player should be able to lead his team to the playoffs. people on here were saying that they kind of agreed that cp3 is better than magic because he had a higher PER, then they turn around and bash melo even though he had the 4th highest PER in the league last year. if you're good then you will be able to put up amazing stats, if you're great then you will be able to carry your team to the playoffs, if you're an all time great then you will be able to carry your team to the finals/win championships.

 
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Nah I for sure agree, you can't compare the two at all. That's why I said like, you can't expect CP3 to be a #1 scoring option and for them to win in the postseason despite the fact that he's 6 feet like A.I. I'm only using A.I. because he was the last 6 footer who actually lead a team in scoring and had big success in the playoffs.
 

And as far as those discussions are concerned, In my opinion if you really don't include barkley, AI, malone, and the stockton's of the world in the all time greats discussions because of their lack of championships, then that says more about you (not you in particular) than it does their lack of rings.

Those guys were incredible. It's criminal how they can regulate those players to the "best players who never won" list.
 
another thing i find with comparing CP to AI or pass first guys to volume shooters in general, when a guy is a primary scorer (see melo/ai/kobe/jordan) then they tend to get all the blame when their team fails because they take "all" the shots. but when it comes to pass first guys like nash/CP/kidd people tend to not flame them as much and blame the lack of a supporting cast because its mostly the supporting cast that's taking the shots, off or the star players passes. 

like if cp3 takes the clippers to the 2nd round and gets knocked out people will be talking about how the clippers are missing something and need to make moves on the off season but if melo takes the clippers to the 2nd round and gets knocked out people will be saying things like "wow melo sucks, he couldnt carry a team if his life depended on it"

no doubt that barkley and malone were all time greats but championships is a pretty big factor, not the only factor but a pretty big factor. Most people put bill russell on their top 5 all time lists and thats purely off championships. its a shame that people dont understand how great those guys were because they never won but for me personally, if a superstar player spent 5+ years playing for my team and wasnt able to win a championship then i would call his time here a failure.

of course thats just me and i put high value in championships, at the end of the day everyone has different criteria for how to determine the success/skill/value of a player
 
sea manup said:
 
another thing i find with comparing CP to AI or pass first guys to volume shooters in general, when a guy is a primary scorer (see melo/ai/kobe/jordan) then they tend to get all the blame when their team fails because they take "all" the shots. but when it comes to pass first guys like nash/CP/kidd people tend to not flame them as much and blame the lack of a supporting cast because its mostly the supporting cast that's taking the shots, off or the star players passes. 

like if cp3 takes the clippers to the 2nd round and gets knocked out people will be talking about how the clippers are missing something and need to make moves on the off season but if melo takes the clippers to the 2nd round and gets knocked out people will be saying things like "wow melo sucks, he couldnt carry a team if his life depended on it"

no doubt that barkley and malone were all time greats but championships is a pretty big factor, not the only factor but a pretty big factor. Most people put bill russell on their top 5 all time lists and thats purely off championships. its a shame that people dont understand how great those guys were because they never won but for me personally, if a superstar player spent 5+ years playing for my team and wasnt able to win a championship then i would call his time here a failure.

of course thats just me and i put high value in championships, at the end of the day everyone has different criteria for how to determine the success/skill/value of a player
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I think you are overcomplicating it.  People can tell from the eye test whether a player makes his teammates better or just gets his own stats, and they are going to cut the first guy more slack.
 
100027 said:
 
sea manup said:
 
another thing i find with comparing CP to AI or pass first guys to volume shooters in general, when a guy is a primary scorer (see melo/ai/kobe/jordan) then they tend to get all the blame when their team fails because they take "all" the shots. but when it comes to pass first guys like nash/CP/kidd people tend to not flame them as much and blame the lack of a supporting cast because its mostly the supporting cast that's taking the shots, off or the star players passes. 

like if cp3 takes the clippers to the 2nd round and gets knocked out people will be talking about how the clippers are missing something and need to make moves on the off season but if melo takes the clippers to the 2nd round and gets knocked out people will be saying things like "wow melo sucks, he couldnt carry a team if his life depended on it"

no doubt that barkley and malone were all time greats but championships is a pretty big factor, not the only factor but a pretty big factor. Most people put bill russell on their top 5 all time lists and thats purely off championships. its a shame that people dont understand how great those guys were because they never won but for me personally, if a superstar player spent 5+ years playing for my team and wasnt able to win a championship then i would call his time here a failure.

of course thats just me and i put high value in championships, at the end of the day everyone has different criteria for how to determine the success/skill/value of a player
Click to expand...
I think you are overcomplicating it.  People can tell from the eye test whether a player makes his teammates better or just gets his own stats, and they are going to cut the first guy more slack.
Click to expand...
but at the end of the day a win is a win, going to the second round is going to the second round. if rudy gay and kyle lowry can both lead their teams to the same record and achieve the same amount of playoff success, i would not put kyle lowry over rudy gay because he does it by passing and "making his teammates better". 

the point of basketball is to score more points than the other team. much like how blake griffin dunking results in the same amount of points as kevin love pulling off a pretty post move, carmelo scoring 40 points is the same as melo scoring 15, jr scoring 15 and chandler scoring 10. 
 
Random thought: Prime Sheed and Drummond playing together on the Pistons would have been so fun to watch. Like Sheed and a more athletic Ben Wallace (for now).

I just really miss watching Sheed play.

Edit: Josh Smith just got crunched on a screen.
 
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do the rockets have a team barber? i was watching greg smith guarding IT on my 240p stream wondering why beverly grew so big
 
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